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Loose Rundown of Recent Events Sticky

A topic by Cubit created Aug 18, 2022 Views: 65,790 Replies: 13
Viewing posts 1 to 6
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Since Hotpink has recently deleted a couple of comments and there's some confusion going around, I wanted to make a loose history of events that people can reference if they're curious. These are not necessarily all in order, and anyone should feel free to comment with additional information. Mostly I'm making this because I don't want people getting angry at either studio, and feel that they wouldn't want that either.

  1. With Hot Pink's Tentacle Locker seemingly in the distant past, Strange Girl starts developing Lovecraft Locker as a love letter to the original. Hot Pink Comments in support, and development and public builds start coming out for over a month.
  2. Tentacle Locker 2 is announced and a demo is released. Fans start publicly comparing the two, with Hot Pink coming in and assuring them that the properties and studios are separate.
  3. Hot Pink begins talking with Strange Girl behind the scenes. Much of this conversation is not public knowledge. The studios appear to have initially been very warm with one another at the start of talks.
  4. Hot Pink at one point proposes a merger, which is rejected as Strange Girl feels it may cause friction against their own studio's individuality and agency. Hot Pink then proposes a stripped down "partnership" where they say they could offer guidance and help prevent Strange Girl devs from getting burnt out, seemingly because Strange Girl are very open about working ruthlessly long hours on the project without rest. This partnership is rejected for similar reasons.
  5. Strange Girl is largely funded by an unnamed investor, and so many of Hot Pink's other offers in these talks are rejected as they could cause issue with the primary investor. Negotiations appear to grind to a halt, and Hot Pink would later indicate that it became more difficult to get responses from Strange Girl as the week went on.
  6. Hot Pink games files a warning through itch.io's systems, claiming that Strange Girl infringed on their ideas and assets. The use of copyright claims and automated warning systems has a history of violence and abuse on creator-focused websites such as youtube, and Strange Girl are immediately threatened by this behavior.
  7. Strange Girl issues a public statement saying that as a result of this warning, they will be pausing production on Lovecraft Locker in order to focus on future games, but intend to come back to the project at a later date.
  8. Hot Pink games states that posting their discussions publicly was distasteful and done in attempt to paint their studio in a bad light. The studios begin posting public comments talking with each other and with fans, defending themselves and their actions but not attacking one another.
  9. Hot Pink states that they did not perceive their automated itch.io warning as an aggressive or threatening action. On a surface level, it appears that there is tension between the studios but not necessarily animosity.
  10. Strange Girl comes to an agreement with Hot Pink to pay them monthly royalties and provide acknowledgement to Hot Pink within the game, in addition to changing their art style to be more distinct from Tentacle Locker, in exchange for taking down the warning and allowing them to continue development of Lovecraft Locker.
  11. Though there are no longer impediments to continuing Lovecraft Locker, it is not yet clear whether Strange Girl will immediately return to it or pause it as they've initially stated in order to develop their new IP, Tentacle Fantasy Soda.

My own two notes on this are:

  1. I hope Hot Pink is genuine when they say they did not understand the implication of threat when they issued a site warning against Strange Girl, but I also hope they go on to understand that this is not behavior that should taken lightly and has a history of misuse against smaller creators.
  2. Hot Pink claims that their desire for a merger is partially to help prevent Strange Girl devs from getting burnt out. If they are true about their intentions, they are CORRECT. Strange Girl's development practices are CLEARLY unhealthy and CLEARLY unsustainable. I want both game studios to flourish, but Strange Girl very much needs to ease up, because it's clear to anyone with eyes that they will crash and burn if they keep crunching themselves like this, no matter how passionate they are.
(1 edit) (+5)(-3)

We will have a public statement soon I think is the plan, but this does sum up things pretty well, but as you said not quite in a timeline, and I don't think we need to clarify the details. 
We did not think the report would cause such distress, and would have liked to issue later or not at all but did need to get things in writing. Itch has always been pretty personal with any reports, so did not perceive it as a threat at the time. With how they reacted we regetted the timing and have since issued an apology. Plus you make a good point about how other platform's reporting system can be weaponized. Lest we forget Annue's old twitter! 

We did consider, but never offered a merger. Partnership would be better way in my mind, but that didn't seem wanted either. So it will be an even more watered down cooperation you might say. If they don't want to take our advice they would never have to in any of these scenarios, but hopefully we can all succeed and yall get more games ;) 

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Oh, and only deleting comments to try and breed less confusion! Hope it doesn't make more?? 

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Hot Pink claims that their desire for a merger is partially to help prevent Strange Girl devs from getting burnt out. If they are true about their intentions, they are CORRECT. Strange Girl's development practices are CLEARLY unhealthy and CLEARLY unsustainable. I want both game studios to flourish, but Strange Girl very much needs to ease up, because it's clear to anyone with eyes that they will crash and burn if they keep crunching themselves like this, no matter how passionate they are.

We are now more aware of this matter. I have now discussed with my team to ease our progress and spend some time for leisure, rest, and research, instead of crunching new assets, programming, and other updates.

Though there are no longer impediments to continuing Lovecraft Locker, it is not yet clear whether Strange Girl will immediately return to it or pause it as they've initially stated in order to develop their new IP, Tentacle Fantasy Soda.

We plan to do an update for Lovecraft Locker at the end of the month. Fix some of the mechanics that have not been tested and are seems to be broken and not good in their current state. Onwards, we'll be working most of a month in the coming months for Tentacle Fantasy Soda, just to make sure our momentum doesn't burn and our hype and interest for it doesn't fade. We'll still be working on Lovecraft Locker in parallel, but not as much as before. It'll be something like if there are 4 weeks in a month, 3 weeks will be for TFS, and 1 week for LCL.

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The deletion of comments was seen by many, including myself, as an extremely hostile action and revoking of approval.

The revocation/deletion of approval and everything that followed only worsened this perspective on that matter.
Commenting as much as Hotpink did and submitting bad practice DMCA claims is bar none the worst thing Hotpink could have and did do.

I still believe Hotpinks actions where hostile and their actions afterwards being damage control as i have no reason to think otherwise.
Lying to me about revoking their approval and the DMCA claim being the biggest outliers.

Due to all of this:
I can not trust Hotpink and will not be buying Tentacle locker 2.
I am sorry to say but i will also not be buying Lovecraft Locker due to the now reduced focus and forced changes by Hotpink.

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It was never made to be hostile, but when made public I can see why you think that. 

We never submitted a DMCA take down. That takes a lot of legal work, and never something we were planning on doing. I hope you don't see this as a lie, and we've only done our best to be transparent and keep things less confusing for people who have only seen part of things. 

There won't be any "forced changes" by us or anyone. With all your vigor and passion I hope you can at least support other lewd game creators! 

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Nice semantics. You didn't submit a "DMCA takedown," true - you submitted a copyright claim through Itch. Different mechanisms, same effect.

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Also not a copyright claim claim! Just a report so we could get things down in writing. Was never made to be public. Semantics are important when you deal with things like this. 

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I will say this, a DMCA takedown does not require a lot of work, it's a simple 1 page form you fill out

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Yeah, Hotpink's excuses for "We didn't INTEND the copyright warning as a threat" completely contradicts the language of their report:

It's killing the competition because they got so badly outclassed on a TL sequel.

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The original Tentacle Locker received over a million downloads, and Lovecraft Locker is a first-time project by a fledgling studio without name recognition. Even without insight in to the inner workings of Hotpink, it's very obvious their motivation had nothing to do with feeling threatened by competition.

Also, given that Hotpink basically held all of the cards, it would have been exceptionally easy for them to shut down the smaller project or even the Strange Girl studio entirely, since even the threat of a lawsuit would have shut down a smaller studio that lacks the money to hire a legal team (seriously, legal threats kill small projects all the time without anything even needing to enter the courtroom). Blowback would have been negligible, since the vast majority of TL fans found it through other websites and really don't have any clue what LL is at the moment.

So we can tell that their intent wasn't to kill competition... because they didn't. I can't stress enough how effortless it would have been to do that if they actually wanted to.

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You're making the same mistake Hotpink did, which is thinking SG is some random "fledgling studio". There's plenty of aspects to compare, but start with their Patreon accounts. Hotpint currently has almost 700 patrons that they gathered for the past 3-4 years. SG now already has more than 800 patrons that grew in just a month.

Sure, HP could've done better for themselves if they didn't act harshly. But how HP behaved is who they are, there's no changing that. HP knows the potential of SG in the "tentacle locker" competition. So they got greedy and tried to absorb them and get an easy cash cow.

You're basically just throwing random stuff now here. LL is "the smaller project"? "Shut down Strange Girl studio entirely"? "exceptionally easy"? Their growth tells everything. "I can't stress enough how effortless it would have been to do that if they actually wanted to." Lol, just look at their itch complaint report, it's not effortless. It's more like desperate.

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Your first argument works against you - yeah, TL has a lot of downloads, which would make it all the more "threatening" for a rookie team to come in out of the blue with a first-time game that blows the "original" out of the water in pretty much every category. HPG has a rep as "the Tentacle Locker guys;" for another circle to come on the scene with a better attempt at their flagship title is a sucker punch to the ego. Their claim even lays it out in plain English: "This is hurting our IP." If they a no-name, up-and-coming studio couldn't be a threat, then why were they concerned, period?

As to holding the cards - did they? What license are TL and TL2 distributed under that was violated? Creating something doesn't automatically give you the right to any and all future content that is derived from or remotely similar - especially when it comes to game design and mechanics, as HPG claims (those are covered by patents, not copyright). You're right that the threat of legal action can shut a circle down instantly, but that cuts both ways - it's just as expensive to initiate action, and there's no profit in copyright busting in itself (the profit comes from defending market share).

You're right, blowback will be negligible - which is exactly why they can get away with being bullies. So why bother with any of this? Because bandwagoning - TL2 is an asset swap for TL, whereas LL came out the gate swinging with a better mechanical framework. Why shut that down when you can coopt it?

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I didn't actually know that about their patreons! interesting. Anyway, I also don't believe that hotpink would have a legal claim to shut down LL, because there's actually not very much you have to do to distinguish an IP before you're no longer legally liable. my point was more, as you stated, they wouldn't even need to. a legal threat is all that's needed, because even the prospect of defending oneself in court can become prohibitively expensive. One studio would have the built-up cash reserves to initiate or defend in a court case, the other would not.

To be clear, I don't believe this drama happened for no reason. I do believe this was a matter of ego, and that frequent fan comparisons between the project in their comment section just served to needle them. But there's a big difference between ego damage and annoyance and actually feeling threatened. That being said, the information about the studio patreons does actually shine a different light about their comparative monthly incomes, so you're actually right about that claim claim of threat holding water.

Also, though this doesn't effect your argument being right overall, I find your claim that "hotpink having a million downloads should make them feel more threatened of competition" is very silly. Though I still don't personally believe this was a move made out of economic greed, a better argument in your favor might be "by their own admission, TL's explosion in downloads is largely due to ticktock and twitter, audiences who are comparatively less loyal and much less likely to spend money then audiences on itch.io. people on tiktok have no idea what Lovecraft Locker is, but they're not the ones who vote with their wallets."

edit: oh, you weren't actually the commenter who pointed out their patreons. w/e, the point still stands that it's valid