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A jam submission

Herbal-AlchemyView game page

Experience the magic of potion-making on a tropical island in Herbal-Alchemy!
Submitted by PhaestusFox — 4 hours, 20 minutes before the deadline
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Herbal-Alchemy's itch.io page

Results

CriteriaRankScore*Raw Score
Theme Interpretation#532.1282.348
Presentation#612.2072.435
Overall#631.9832.188
Fun#651.6161.783

Ranked from 23 ratings. Score is adjusted from raw score by the median number of ratings per game in the jam.

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Comments

Submitted (1 edit)

I was pretty sure that the game was just completely broken until I came to the comments and found out about the camera situation.

I recompiled the game to swap the camera controls to right click so I could move the camera into a position where I could play at all (no middle button).

I managed to create a Saturation potion (I found the mix of GUI controls and console stuff a bit confusing), but clicking the "TURN IN" button on the screen with the angry witch that needs it isn't doing anything. It would be nice to prepopulate the console with an MOTD / welcome message that lets you know it's an actual part of the game and you can type help.

I returned to the console out of desperation and not finding anything helpful there, typed "exit" thinking it would exit from the "lab app." but it closed the game.

I'm going to move on to another game, but I hope this account of my experience was useful in some way.

Developer

thank you for your feedback, I believe the turn-in was not working because you had not yet selected the potion I didn't have time to add a turn-in box so it just checked the currently selected item, the console was a late addition to get the game done in time but ill definitely make the game more user friendly after the jam finishes and maybe add button configuration for the camera so you won't need to recompile. hopefully, the next update will have a more streamlined game, I have already fixed things like the camera start position

Submitted(+1)

I got this error after pressing start (on firefox):

panicked at 'player settings are loaded: NotFound', src/player.rs:83:10

and this error when pressing settings:

panicked at 'player settings to load: NotFound', src/menu.rs:128:10

I managed to fix it by disabling the Privacy Badger extension (which blocks cookies), so that seemed to be the cause of the issue.

Developer

ah, the game uses cookies to save data, I generate new settings when you start the game so that I can assume they exist at all times but I guess that doesn't work when you have cookies blocked

Seems frozen, can't give a rating unfortunately.

Developer

can you tell me what you did before it froze? so I can attempted to find the bug for after the jam

Hitting "Settings" makes it freeze immediately.
"Play" lets me get to the main game screen, but after that it's immediately frozen, and i can't click any of the in-game UI.

I'm running Firefox, if that's any help.

Developer

can you open the console and see if there are any errors? it must have something to do with firefox i might have to download it and try when i get time

Submitted

Its obviously not finished but a great idea and I really enjoy your content on youtube. I also think that the scope was too big but I would like to see you continue this project in the future to see where it leads.

Developer(+1)

thanks, I'm glad you like the idea, the score was definitely far too big for just a single developer, of my skill and time to invest, but hopefully, I can make some good videos about expanding the game into a finished product

(+1)

I think this game struggled with having a scope that was too big for what could reasonably be finished in a game jam. Their were a lot of decisions that as I dev I understand why they were done in the short time frame but they caused the game to suffer immensely.

The most immediate decision I think should have been changed is the starting spawn camera angle, it should have been higher angled downward to the land so that it doesn't spawn the player in a manner that makes the game look bugged as shown below:


It should instead spawn you in a position as shown below:

This likely seems minor but you only get one first impression.  Aside from that the making of potions in the console is understandable for time constraints but in the future I highly recommend you make it more intuitive by adding a basic UI and translating player actions to those console actions so that way one doesn't need to understand basic scripting to play the game.

The main 2 final things to resolve are firstly their should be some benefit to turning in quests, either a new plant or some powerful item or even currency to buy either of those things.

Secondly It's a bit too easy to soft-lock yourself by cutting down a try early on with only ripe coconuts that can't be planted. This would be alleviated immediately with a shop of some kind where the sum parts of a tree can be sold for slightly more than a seed for that tree, making it to where it's hard to soft lock.

That's not to say its bad though (my apologies if I come off a bit harsh in the earlier section), its one of the only games with a lot of assets both in what one can grow and harvest developed in such a short time. It includes 2D, 3D, and icon assets that were undoubtedly hard to do all in 2 weeks.

Additionally it's a refreshingly different game idea with many submissions often being similar to basic projects this game took a risk on trying to develop something new.

Overall this game is hard to rate because it feels incomplete but it's also one of the only submitted games that isn't fairly basic. Their were lots of custom assets made in this brief time, a fairly fleshed out game idea went into this and ultimately it's one of the few games submitted that if refined over a few months I could see eventually developing into a real game. However as it stands it is a game without a fun game loop and complexity is not a substitute for the fun that a basic title can have. If I were to give advise on what to do I would say in future to focus purely on optimizing the game loop and hold everything else secondary. Their were many many different potions and effects but their was no incentive to do anything with them beyond turn them in without a reward. Focus on making the game loop good, which for this type of game would likely be creating potions, turning them in For A Reward, and then using that reward to make more complex potions/buy items/buy land/etc... Just have the loop beneficially feed into itself.

I know this might be an unfair critique given that this is a game jam and their was only 2 weeks to do this, but this are the main issues with the game. If they're resolved I think you'd have something good on your hands.

Developer(+1)

thanks for the feedback,
firstly originally I only has a world map of 7 cells so the camera was not inside them and didn't notice after I expanded the map since the game returned to the last screen you were on and I would rarity quit the game on the world scene but I will definitely fix the camera for after the jam voting since it is such a simple fix that would have a huge impact on first impressions.
the game was going to have a UI for making the potions, things like an oven with a hot and cold option, hence some things are mutually exclusive, they would use the same machine on a different setting. I don't really have the art skill to make a UI that conveys the information visually so I instead just used the console but I definitely plan on adding machines and some sort of gamification to the crafting like timers and upgrades to make things faster to take more items.
a currency would be good to allow you to buy more land and maybe upgrade the land too, but funny enough currency was never in the massive scope of the game, I should have done a small story that the potions are random but the dialogue and story have a fixed path

as for that final point cutting down the tree will not soft lock you since the map is not saved between sections specify for this reason, I knew this was a problem and it was the quickest solution, the tree grows back if you refresh the page. I will put a note in the description of the game since your point is valid that if you don't know this you might just give up, first impressions and all.

sorry for the long reply but I really do appreciate the feedback and you have inspired me to at least finish the game into a "fun" state before abandoning it


No problem for the long reply, as you can see from most of my comments I tend to write plenty as well. I'm glad to have inspired you further, I was worried that my comments may have been a bit too much. Funnily enough going through your comment it seemed that most of what  caused problems were the typical dev issues of over-familiarity with the game that I personally guessed were the case (because I've had problems with that plenty of times). The exception to this was the fact that you knew about and prevented a soft-lock that I thought was in the game shows the though put into it accessibility, even if I didn't find it the first time around.

Thankfully, I think that most of the problems will have solutions that you can easily implement, and iterating on what one made in a game jam is a tried and true tradition. I'll keep the game in mind for when you update it

Developer

so with the scores coming in it seems people really didn't like my game as much as I hoped, but I am wondering if you would like the be a play tester/consultant on the game as I try to improve it beyond a game jam game. I really appreciated your detailed response and the fact that you went out of your way to get screen shorts.

no worries if you only want to play the game when it gets updates, and not be part of its development, but I would really love to pick your brain on some design stuff, like,

whether I keep the bit manipulation and be a puzzle game, or change it to something more intuitive to none programmers and make each bit represent a tag and the different processes would change one item into another with different tags like water turns to ice, and wood turns to ash.
do I keep the mix of 2d and 3d or do I just commit to one?

do I add a world map where you can find different plants and ingredients?

anyway if you're interested in helping please feel free to reach out I would love someone to bound ideas off, again all good if you're not interested

Sure I'd be happy to help. My main email is "rowanfr@gmail.com", you can send me an email there. If you want to send specific builds and questions there I can give you my thoughts. Fair warning though it will probably take 1-2 days for me to respond due to work, but so long as that's alright I'd be more than happy to help.

To answer the questions you have currently:

For the bit manipulation I would do what you suggested and mask it from the user, as most people aren't programmers and that syntax is something that's only familiar to them. Your correct that this would remove a great deal of the puzzle from the user so instead you could add complexity from creating the brew.

Their are 2 systems that I could think off, one which you put which is a tag system or a check-mark system. In essence it checks to see if you have applied certain processes, such as checking if something has been boiled or fermented, or if it's a gas, liquid, or solid. I don't think though that you should tag every element as that would be a lot of memory for every new element. I think tagging fundamental things like it's state or quality, or something else which would apply to many potions is good, but assuming you want a variety of effects tagging all of them would start to consume a lot or force overlap with other effects (such as 111* being confusion and 11** being slowness). One can get around this somewhat by using a priority system where certain effects are evaluated first but I'm not certain this complexity would be satisfying as one can't progress to discovery they instantly arrive at it or fail with no in between. Their is no close solution to what's requested which is really important for helping players learn, similar to most puzzles you want the player to get close to the solution so that they have something immediately to do and then let them work out the harder solution. (Credit where credit's due this idea comes primarily from Mental Checkpoint "How These Puzzles Deceive You" and you can also see a lot of this in GMTK "What Makes a Good Puzzle")

Another example example system would be that instead of a single byte with bit manipulation you could have multiple bytes represent axis in the game which you can manipulate in a greater variety of ways. Such as having 4 axes for fire, earth, air, water which could create a 4D graph (or 2D if you want to make it conceptually easier and have earth/air and water/fire be opposites) where you can have localized regions for certain effects, some positive some negative, which the user has to figure out by crafting brews. To alter the 4 byte brew one could produce something similar to what you have already made, just with more ingredients and more cooking methods which apply effects on those ingredients in systematic ways, such as fermenting amplifying the value on an axis. I think this would likely be fairly easy to implement (famous last words, I know) but create substantial complexity because one could include positive boons which they want to reach and negative side-effects which they want to avoid. The main downside is loosing the satisfaction and efficiency of bit-shifting but I think that if you want to open up a lot of effects you should do something which will allow that. Typically some systematic approaches that the user can build knowledge of to craft more advanced potions is satisfying, which is what made me think of that multidimensional system as it can be easily quantified and shown to the user while still providing complexity but it's not perfect. For one effects like confusion or invisibility will always have difficult recipes because it's hard for those things to have a defined composition of 4 elements, but the useful things about the axes is that one can give small context clues by how the in game character responds to the vector of a potion, such as the potion looks clearer than normal for the vector close to invisibility or upon smelling it gave a mild headache for the vector close to confusion. One could also combine systems like the tag system from earlier and others to make certain there is enough overall meat to the system. Another useful thing is that it becomes easier to add new axes by just adding another optional u8 to the brew struct (one can also isolate certain effect vectors to certain dimensions so that additional dimensions don't negatively effect information gathering for hard effects, such as confusion only being on the air and water axes).

Sorry if the previous 2 paragraphs are a bit large but this is at the core of the game and should be given the most thought as a result, no matter what system you chose to go with. Everything should branch off the core idea of the game which in this case is brewing. The main thing to take away from these paragraphs is not that you should use this multi-dimensional system, but rather that you should think of a system that would make the user enjoy thinking creatively while pursuing a specific goal whatever that system might be. Each brew request should be seen as a puzzle in some fashion, and engage the player as such. Whether it be in the procuring of materials, cooking, bottling, or some other aspect their should always be something that makes the player enjoy solving a puzzle or engage them in some other way (outside of the first few tutorial brews which should hold the players hand a little bit).

The mix of 2D and 3D is good so long as it is what is present currently, that being 2D menus are entirely separate from 3D assets. The main thing most would find jarring is 2D assets in a 3D world or vice-verse unless done intentionally.

For the world map first I would pursue it with time but first I would flesh out a store and have the current solution be you spend some resource at the store to get new items. You can add other systems to get more items such as Recettear where you fight in a quest to get them but I think creative generation of unique brews is this games focus, not questing or world exploration, so I'd leave that on the back burner until the main loop is finished and start with the simplest implementation of a shop's expansion.