Post by Ben Allen in Ennead comments

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This is the kind of comment any game developer loves to receive. Congrats on the win!

I'd love to know how that process of learning went for you: What was confusing, what's still confusing, and what was immediately intuitive. This is one of those games that isn't really "fun" (subjective, I know) until you have a good understanding of the rules and how that might influence strategy. Getting people from "This is hard and confusing" to your comment here is exactly what I want for everyone, but currently that requires a level of curiosity and trust that most people won't have. Not expecting you to solve these problems for me, just curious to hear more about your experience + feedback!

Ben Allen4 days ago(+1)

Oh! I also meant to ask, did you read my "Some Tips" section in the game description?

frocco3 days ago (1 edit)

Thanks! This really is a gem of a game and I see myself playing it a lot more. Thanks for making it again! I appreciate the game is not super newbie friendly, but learning it was pretty intuitive (coming from a Brough games fan / roguelike player). Can see heavy 868-Hack and Cinco Paus inspirations (maybe P1 select too? I didn't play it too much).

I did read your tips before / alongside my first runs - probably the mechanic I took longer to register is that you can't cast spells more than once per turn (except for specific ones). I was also not sure if the void straight up meant game over, did damage or just blacked the screen out permanently. Also, at first it was slightly strange to me that the player can attack diagonally but not monsters, curious as to how you arrived at this mechanic (I assume monsters attacking diagonally made them too strong).

I think transferring general tips and explanations (maybe an extended version of what you have here) to something clickable in game (within a pause menu for instance) would be sufficient to have most players overcome the learning curve. I love not having a tutorial though.

The strategy elements clicked pretty naturally once the mechanics of how AP / turns / mana worked, and building the spell arsenal has kept fun throughout my runs. Being restricted to rows and not being able to re-cast most of them really limits the amount of broken combos you can get (at least to the limit I've been able to theorycraft). These limitations elevate the gameplay in my view - it would be far less fun to repeat the same combo every floor.

If I may share just a few initial ideas:
1. While I don't think it is necessary, it might be interesting to add just another "type" of monster (perhaps one that plays with rows and columns at range, like 868-Hack). I think that a range attack enemy could spice up things and change the spell priority significantly.

2. Having the void animation a bit clearer as to when you will actually die would be helpful (given the gravity of the outcome, lol). I often don't know exactly when it hits and sometimes miss gold or treasure, afraid of mistiming it and trashing my run!

3. Looping / streak mode, whereby you count the accumulated score over 9 games (in 868 fashion). Creates more incentives to prioritize surviving vs. "high-rolling" a great build, and I think the game could open up with additional mechanics layered upon this. For example, having a "loop" slightly buff you (choosing 1 spell to carry over or increasing base stats) but at the same time introducing tougher enemies / tougher enemies earlier. I realize this is not a small change and changes the balance of things significantly though.

Ben Allen3 days ago

Re 1. It's worth mentioning that this is actually the second attempt at making this game. My first attempt was 9 Till Void, which is available on my itch or steam and has similar mechanics but with some tweaks and some things missing (there's no XP or Gems in that one). This game came about from finding the original prototype of that game, which looks a lot closer to Ennead, and realizing "Wow I think I like this prototype more than the thing I actually released? Maybe I should try this again..." And in those older versions there are more enemy types, including an enemy that blocks the spell in its row from being used. I definitely am open to adding more enemies, but in past experiences it's really hard to get players to mouse over enemies to understand what they do, and also players generally dislike really disruptive enemies. The demons in Ennead work well because its so easy to understand them. I'll think more on it though!

Re 2. Yes I can definitely improve this. To clarify how it works, Void gets created at the end of your turn if Turns is at 0, and Void deals 1 damage to any entity at the end of its turn. The damage is dealt before void gets created, so if you move to a cell which will become void at the end of your turn, it wont hurt you. So just be mindful of ending your turn in void that exists right now, and also consider how enemies might end their turns in void too. I can definitely improve the visual on this. I could also maybe simplify it to make everything happen at the end of your turn to remove some ambiguity, it would just change the balance in some subtle but impactful ways since damage would be applied to enemies before they move instead of after.

Re 3. Streaking actually might be a good way to introduce more enemy types. Restrict more disruptive and complex enemies to streak difficulty modifiers. That would work well I think. I'll have to think more though because I honestly don't like the streaking aspect of brough games, usually. I personally prefer when a run can exist in isolation. I do want to provide some new challenge after players win though that isn't just "get a higher score" so I'll see if I can come up with a non streak solution first, but I'll keep streaking in the back of my mind.

Thanks again for the comments! I'm not sure how soon I'll get to updating the game, but I'll make some devlog posts if I do, so be on the lookout!

frocco3 days ago (1 edit) (+1)

Thanks for the reply!
1. I actually remember 9 Till Void and have probably wishlisted it before! I'll take a look at it. Interesting that this game came about you revisiting older builds. I hear you on new enemies.

2. Thanks, I did some test runs and the mechanics are now clear. I like the way it works and was under the impression there was some random aspect of taking damage due to the flickering effects, which is not the case.

3. I really like the balancing for single runs you have now so worth thinking about it but the game definetely works without streaking in my view!

I plan to play a lot more and hopefully can send further feedback / ideas. Will stay tuned for updates on your progress here for sure! Cheers!

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