Post by Cheeseness in Hive Time comments

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Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad to hear that overall you enjoyed the game. Most of what you've noted is by design/with intent. If it's of value or interest, I'll give some insight/reasoning below.

With regards to upgrade patterns, I specifically didn't want new players to know or care about that stuff in the early game. My expectation was that most players would be content with destroying cells and remodel their hive to make specific upgrades where needed, and then use their experience/knowledge to inform how future generations' hives would be constructed when carrying forward past hives' research. Not everybody has embraced that though - I've found that destroying/repurposing cells is something that some people seem particularly resistant to, even though only 3 of the 8 non-storage cell types need additional space to be upgraded (since all storage upgrades use the same pattern, they can be viewed as one thing, I think). If that leads those players to make drastically different decisions for the layout of their second Queen's hive though, then I'm inclined to see that as a good thing since it surfaces more of the game's underlying shape/possibility space.

The longer term plan if I had the opportunity to continue to develop the game would have involved adding more upgrade options that used different patterns, which makes me a little reluctant to show a preview of the currently implemented upgrade options in case I ever do get to realise those plans. It's not something I'm giving specific attention to at this time, but if I come up with a way of indicating currently-unlocked upgrade patterns that would scale to show multiple patterns in a clear way, I'll definitely add it in a future patch.

The general design philosophy behind the role-specific management systems is that they should offer room for micromanagement for players who are into that, but also be optional and mostly ignorable for players who don't (eg: the Beesitter tutorial image shows a set-and-forget position for the population slider that will guarantee population growth). I've had some ideas for making Foraging management a little more elaborate (and what's in the game is a step beyond ), but I'm also keen to make sure it doesn't go too far beyond the other management systems' levels of complexity (it is currently the most complex).

Hive Time is very much not about bees, but it's worth noting that real honey bee deaths frequently occur away from the hive while out foraging/pollinating. It's sad, but from what I understand, less strain on the hive than when bees can't go out foraging due to weather and there's more dead that need to be disposed of.

Regarding the bear attack, I'm not sure what you mean by clumping security. Barracks placement doesn't affect the Bear Attack event. Defenders need to be deployed outside the hive to deal with external threats - there's an emergency button for overriding the slider and telling everybody to get out immediately if you hadn't spotted (though Bear Attack's lead time is longer than a bee's typical lifespan...).

Recovering from setbacks is a big part of the game in my mind, and my hope is that the first Bear Attack teaches players that it doesn't take much time or effort to rebuild. When I play for fun, I usually play without Defenders and just embrace Ol' Bitey and the wasps.

ptb66677711 days ago

hey thanks for the reply. I hear you, and I get it. It is your game and it was fun, no need to defend, but the explanation makes sense.

I am one of those whom resits tearing down and rebuilding. I wanna do it correctly the first time. For me to want to go another round I need to be defeated by my logical failures, not by a game mechanic I didn't get to discover until I was in the mid to late game of my first queen. had I known the patterns for that stage I would not have lost. since building is radial and early game wax isn't flowing every space seemed to be necessary and utilized. I didn't know I needed to place my roles in a particular arrangement so I build in order of necessity. Even the upgrades where hidden. I get that it is to create engagement, but for me it reflects the opposite. I am not going to do another hour half run, write my own key, build a grid on paper, map out the layout I would have to use, and go another 2 hours just to see if I can get to 600 royal jelly. maybe it was an hour, I don't remember the queens life span. Still, since that is pretty much the end of the game and it would complete the loop I didn't get hooked. just some feedback, I have been gaming since ColecoVision and many games have been just a pinch away from being great.

I honestly feel like I lost because I was supposed to, that isn't fun. I'm not being driven to learn and explore, I'm being forced to fail so I learn to follow a ridged system. The best games allow freedom as life already forces conformity. I don't mind tight margins, that forces me to hone in on mechanics, find the answer, problem solve. I see from the comments that your probably riding this build out. I wish you the best of luck and hope my assessment is incorrect.

Cheeseness10 days ago

I'm sorry to hear that that was your experience of the game. It was certainly my intention to make a game that provided a more flexibility than you found. I'm not quite sure I understand since everything you've expressed frustration with is either optional to engage with or has a find-your-own-fun setting, but games are subjective, and you had the experience you had.

Just in case I've misrepresented myself, when I say that my expectation was that players would be comfortable destroying cells to make specific upgrades when needed, I'm thinking "destroy one or two cells when that's all that's in the way of making an upgrade," not "remodel the entire hive." The world is big - there's plenty of room to expand and build upgraded cells without destroying anything if a player thinks they need them (with the exception of a single upgraded Workshop, no upgraded cells are necessary for comfortably meeting the Jelly goal in time, though I'd usually recommend upgrading the Throne Room since the Activity screen can be helpful for monitoring role productivity).

To clarify, the default Queen's lifespan is 2 hours, and the cooldown before a new Queen can be spawned is 1 hour without upgrades (which was tuned to enforce a maximum concurrent Queen count since it can take much, much less than that to make the Jelly required for a new Queen). Some players have mistaken the cooldown on spawning a new Queen for the current Queen's lifespan, but when that expires it becomes apparent pretty quickly that the Queen isn't dead, and there's a warning event prior to the Queen actually dying to remind players to spawn a new Queen so they won't forget.

As I said, upgrades aren't "hidden" to create engagement - they're revealed when the player has earned them as a way of keeping things from being overwhelming in the early game first and foremost (some of this was driven by tester feedback during development), and secondarily as a new layer of construction concerns for players to consider (or ignore) for their subsequent Queens' hives. The "skip Beepedia locks" find-your-own-fun option lets players see (among other things) upgraded cell layouts in the Beepedia before they're researched, and for anybody keen to have a "second hive" type experience for a lineage's first hive, there's the "skip research" find-your-own-fun option.

From the pre-release playtesting I did, most fresh players were able to make the Jelly goal on their first attempt (even when Old Bitey paid a visit or two - he's a random disaster, and isn't guaranteed to make an appearance). Those that didn't were close, and generally chose to keep playing after their Queen died ("losing" is optional in Hive Time).

I added the "skip disasters" find-your-own-fun option in the Hiveversary Update, so Old Bitey himself is optional at this point too.

ptb6667778 days ago(+1)

I'm just one of millions and we all have opinions. I wasn't hooked, but I did enjoy the game. No worries at all. I am pretty sure from what I remember of the run I didn't change any settings or go thru any tutorials or read thru any of the info in game. I just dove in. but after the 2 hours I had a 5 min or less count down and the run did end when the queen died. Maybe I hastily shut it down, very possible I had to leave home. I built radially in a circle as I needed to expand, I kept things kinda close to each other, but I would have had to demo a lot to get the upgrades locked in. I suppose you know your game better than I do after only 2 hours, I am not saying your wrong or the game is bad, not at all. It just seemed less intuitive then I would have liked. the learning curve seemed forced, that's pretty much my only gripe. the bear was fine, the random rave and other events where cool and broke up the game play a bit. It is a good little sim. you can pretty easily create a bunch more on top if you chose to and create a full feature game with dlc's and the works. If I could change anything it would be to see the upgrades and at least the cost, footprint, and a description without them appearing after. That and the final form footprint of cells when I go to place the singles in the popup. that's really it. the game mechanics are good and it was one I enjoyed. It wasn't bad, but it did fall short for me. again everyone has an opinion. be proud you earned it for sure.

Cheeseness7 days ago

I don't think Hive Time has quite managed a million players just yet! It's on track for 100,000 downloads this year, I reckon :D

The event that triggers when the last surviving Queen dies has an "I'm having fun" option that allows you to continue playing (unless you enable the "Unforgiving game over" find-your-own-fun setting when starting a new game). It was important to me that the game didn't have any failure points, and that goals and constraints be something that players embraced or rejected based on their own interests and enjoyment. The Jelly goal also serves as a comfortable stopping point for players who aren't enjoying playing for the sake of playing, and a gateway to starting a fresh hive with all their existing research and knowledge for those who are - in my mind, that's where the true game starts.

The playspace is 2,000 cells big, minus whatever obstacles eat up. You can leave hundreds of non-upgraded cells in place and still have room to expand and build many times more upgraded cells without demolishing anything. Staying small (whether that's staying under 150 cells or staying under 75 bees) is a valid way to play and a fun way to explore some of the simulation's boundaries, but that's not intended to be a constraint.

If you skipped the tutorial and didn't review anything in the in-game Beepedia, I'm curious to know how long into your first Queen's lifespan it took you to internalise the "three bees per cell" rule that limits infrastructure use. Even though tester feedback led me to put the tutorial in (it gives guidance up to the spawning of the first Queen), my hope was that all of the game's mechanics and systems would be organically discoverable for an observant player. Each Exit cell in particular has three indicators to show how many bees are currently using it, but many players don't spot that. As a fallback, the info pop-ups for Exit cells covers it, the Beepedia surfaces it in a number of places, and the Activity screen I mentioned earlier also notes that too few Exits limits how many bees can gather resources at once (which again, can be an interesting self-driven constraint, but is not a limitation the game itself is imposing).

If you're interested in where I would have gone with future post-release development, there's a "tentative roadmap" here. It's missing a few things that I had in mind, but didn't want to set expectations for (like alt upgrades for each cell type and role advisor attachments for the Throne), but I think it gives an idea of the broad strokes that I was aiming for longer term. That said, while it has its share of rough edges as all games do, Hive Time is the game I intended to make, and I don't feel like any of the stuff on that roadmap is specifically missing.

I usually do a little patch once or twice a year in celebration of the game's birthday and World Bee Day, but in order to pay bills, my attention is elsewhere and no larger scale Hive Time development is planned at this time. As I said though, if I come up with a way of indicating currently-unlocked upgrade patterns when building cells that would scale to show multiple patterns in a clear way, I'll definitely add it in one of those smaller patches. In the meantime, costs and layouts of already-researched upgraded cells can be seen in the Beepedia.

Thanks again for your kind words. I'm glad to know that you did enjoy the game in a broad sense, and again, I'm sorry to hear that your experience felt more restrictive than what I was aiming for.

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