If any of you had proper reading comprehension, this would never have descended into an argument. Go ahead and read the upcoming paragraph if you’re really so very wounded and want to understand.
No one is trying to invalidate your feelings. The initial comment that I made was simply pointing out that for lots of reasons, people have an oddly charged response to having to play as a woman. This is not specific to trans men and fucking Leon Kennedy dating sims. Look all across the landscape of gaming- people historically react extremely negatively to being forced to play as a woman, in part because many people straight up believe that women don’t belong in games. I said my truth, which is that NEVER have I seen “warning- you have to play as a stinky boy in this game!!1!”So I called that out here, and clearly people agree. I see in this situation an extremely small game dev who is likely a woman herself and likely has a full time job be bombarded with people complaining that she didn’t increase her work load by also catering to men, TRAUMATIZED TRANS MEN OR NOT, it’s annoying. People don’t owe you being catered to in their small passion project. And then the bozo with the Hikaru pfp was 10000% actually being anti-woman as fuck, didn’t take long for that to come out because that’s usually an element to this conversation regardless of what you all claim. I said what the fuck I said and I’m right, lmfao. This conversation has actually become this annoying that I’m willing to write this essay that none of you are likely to read
editing to add: you are all completely responsible for your own triggers, and trauma dumping to strangers on the internet is cringe under any circumstances, sorry
read all that and chose to answer because i like to suffer, i guess. i see the point you're trying to make (clarification: with women's representation in games and the general public's reception), but i believe it had nothing to do with the original comment who started the argument OR commenter (i.e. me, hi).
The argument doesnt likely stem from a lack of reading comprehension, but rather, drawing connections where there are none.
" I said my truth, which is that NEVER have I seen “warning- you have to play as a stinky boy in this game!!1!”So I called that out here, and clearly people agree."
That's because you painted a picture of me being another misogynistc man who cannot stand a game having a female protagonist in a place that is, logically, most likely to consist of predominantly women. The narration stuck. The comment had plenty of time to fester since I never got a notification that it existed in the first place, therefore I could not immediately address it.
The fact is, my negative feelings are tied to a lack of transparency on the author's side, not to there being female protagonist (also, where the hell did i even say "warning, you have to play as a stinky girl"??). I did made assumptions of my own (for example, that the author mightve disregarded queer people, their struggles, etc.), but i did my best not to let that seep into the original comment as it was NEVER meant for the author themself. It was a short information created with other queer people in mind so that they CAN actually look out for themselves and their traumas before diving into the game.
Idk girl, the vibes tell me you're on the misandrist side, but what do i know. i couldn't come up with any other explanation for what i got bombarded with and some of the stuff you said
Wrote this on my phone at 5 AM and off my adhd meds, but i tried to make this reply orderly. havent read what this hikaru said or how your talk went with them either, felt lazy. English isn't my native language, but hopefully my point(s) came through this time
My original comment wasn’t even really criticism of your original comment. I do see that the dev of this game doesn’t have in the game description that the only option is a female mc, so I can agree that ONE polite comment letting prospective players know about that would be justified. But there are a shit ton of comments on this game that are actively whining about it as if it’s something you are all owed, and my point stands regardless that when the roles are reversed, women don’t bombard small developers about how you can’t play as a girl. That was literally all that I was ever trying to say. Everyone else decided to make this into the trauma Olympics.
As for calling me a misandrist, that is both incredibly tone deaf and also just kind of hilariously stupid. Do you also like telling people of color that they’re being reverse-racist against white people when they speak of racism? Because that’s the vibe you’re giving by telling a woman who’s critiquing misogyny that she seems misandrist, lol.
I also want to point out that your self admitted issue of assuming “that the author mightve disregarded queer people, their struggles, etc.)“ just because a game is made by women & for women, is very wrong and self-victimizing. There is a serious trend of self-victimization with all of you in this comment section. Not everything on planet earth needs to cater to men- straight men OR gay men, cis men OR trans men, etc. Men in general. You saying that really does hammer home my exact point. Something isn’t for you, it’s for women, so you all start frothing at the mouth with complaints and now calling me misandrist for defending it. I can’t even take you seriously.
Okay, and I left *one* polite comment for other folks since I did not find any relevant info on the page, assumed MC is gender-neutral and then had the disappointment of my life.
It wasn't worded as "warning- you have to play as a stinky girl in this game!!1!", as you described it in your previous response (my personal assumptions on the author didn't even take shape until I read their response, which happened 2 months later btw). Twisting that into an anti-women narrative, then turning it into an example of people who actually are disgusted by women, IS borderline offensive. Never called you a misandrist, just said you give me the vibes cuz 1. you keep addressing me as a concept, in plural, rather than a singular person and 2. you judge me based on a prejudice AAAND 3. you keep slandering me??
To put it simply: i have no issue with you raising a point and discussing it, but not at my cost. Like you literally just keep adding your own things and saying "those are your thoughts", like here:
"I also want to point out that your self admitted issue of assuming “that the author mightve disregarded queer people, their struggles, etc.)“ just because a game is made by women & for women, is very wrong and self-victimizing."
GIRL NO? i have no issue with the game?? how many times do i have to repeat it?
im getting a headache from this
my whole point is you all could have fucking checked the comments and seen that there are already fifty of you in here bitching and moaning and no one needs more of your complaints. You all have WAY too much self importance, it’s weird and anti-social. I just woke up and skimmed your comment and clearly this conversation isn’t going to go anywhere, I’m “SLANDERING” you? Holy shit lololol. I’m sitting here listening to the droning on of whiny ass teenager-brained ftm’s who have zero desire to think outside of your little woe-is-me bubble and I’m done with all of y’all’s self victimization, it’s seriously like talking to actual children. Just cry yourselves to sleep eternally over having to play as a girl in this Leon Kennedy dating simulator, which is made for women, and enjoy the rest of your miserable lives
I am not going to take this even remotely seriously seeing as i've 1) been out and in queer spaces for like 10yrs now and 2) have had romantic, familial, and platonic relationships with trans ppl, and somehow, magically, have never gotten this feedback other than now from a bunch of whiny little fucks in the comments of a fucking leon kennedy dating simulator bc i'm speaking about womens issues. I think you just don't like women saying shit that you don't like and not backing down when you all melt down and cry :) I have not said shit here that's transphobic but idrc so enjoy your headcanons
you being trans does not matter. this is an otome game, which means it has to have a female mc. try to read tags properly next time, or rather go and play actual yaoi games if you want yaoi. alright? yaoi games are in a desperate need of support anyway, so theres really no reason to try and rewrite a genre that was never for you
not trying to rewrite the genre, never did (though i didnt know otome was supposed to be female-mc-only since some many games use it regardless). i genuinely had no clue this game was made for women and left a cw for other people who may find themselves in the same situation, hence my original comment. thats about it
why is a warning even needed in the first place? do you walk around writing "cw: male protagonist" under galge? of course you dont. somehow its only an issue when a game is made specifically for women
so it's the wording that's triggering?
also: for the last time, it has nothing to do with women, like jesus fucking christ i've said that too many times now. if there are numerous people getting confused on the gender of the mc, it's gotta be somebody's responsibility to put in the info that feels missing? it was literally just that.
i'll fix the wording of comment if that'll help.
its genuinely insane how a heads up for other people who dont like being referred to as female or something ends up with people throwing a pissy fit over "oh youre being misogynistic lololol you cant accept it because ur a self centered teenager that loves victimizing yourself js because a game isnt catered to you hahahahha" "oh this never happens when games have male protagonists you never see ppl saying 'warning theres a stinky boy in here !!!' you guys are js misogynistic!"
what.
I wish that made sense
cause the full game costs money and if some people (notice how i said people and not men WOAH !!! shocker) plan buy the game without the knowledge of the female protagonist and they don't WANT something like that
a heads up IS GOOD???? hello??? a month-long argument over something so mediocre by someone who can't stop herself from insulting people ON THE INTERNET as she herself stated (funny asf to me that she's doing it and the person responding to her is literally trying to be respectful while justifying the reason he posted something which he literally didn't have to)
I fully agree with what you (oretymleczyk cause i dont want someone COUGH COUGH creepywench to misunderstand) said because it literally makes sense??? "hey guys, small warning this is cisgender and heterosexual and mc uses she/her pronouns" WHICH WOMAN other than creepywench and kinokot4n apparently because they think that men are so self-centered and that we're trying to victimize ourselves over the fact that a Leon Kennedy dating sim isnt catered towards ourselves and we're trying to take over the otome genre SORRY OFFTOPIC
which woman is going to take offense to someone else warning people that a Leon Kennedy dating sim has she/her pronouns????
"oh my god these men are trying to take over the world !!!!" man or woman it deadass doesnt matter we're all literally made of the same thing and at the end of the story its a LEON KENNEDY DATING SIM that people have said is really good its just not for the he/him and he/they audience (I did not include other formats for pronouns because I do not need to but you get the point) also you can literally SEE SOMEONE THANKING OP because they almost bought the game but they didnt think it would be fem protag???
so a person warning others about something so mediocre as pronouns on a Leon Kennedy dating sim doesn't exactly need a month-long argument with 3 paragraph essays by a misandrist that refuses to admit it, does it??? I didnt think so, but apparently someone else thought otherwise 😭
tag me next time you wanna talk shit because I’m happy to engage with EACH ONE OF your whiny asses
1. one comment from ONE of you would have sufficed. you all could have liked it to bump it instead of flooding the comments with complaints
2. This game is tagged as an otome. Otome means maiden. This is a genre of games for women. Learn something and get the hell out of our spaces if you can’t just quietly enjoy or something
3. I am not insulting others any more than everyone else, but of course you want to paint me as some sort of crazy hysterical female. Idgaf
4. me saying you’re all self victimizing as fuck is not even because you initially left comments, it’s because I have people literally trauma dumping on me on a fucking game site. It’s pathetic and sad
5. claiming misandry all because I’m pointing out a double standard between men and women. No, I’m not a misandrist (barely a real thing LOL) you’re just an average man(idgaf if you’re nonbinary or whatever) who doesn’t respect women’s voices or spaces
6. you wrote a longer novel than anyone else here. seethe!!!
7. I said you’re all teenagers because it’s giving me genuine war flashbacks to being on tumblr in like 2013 where it’s the trauma Olympics. NO ONE CARES BABE!
8. It is 100% factually correct that when games are yaoi or literally even something completely other than a visual novel and has a male protag, women just take it in stride and don’t all leave a snarky or whiny comment to a tiny developer about how they need their specific gender to be included or a fucking warning about how it’s a cis/het game and shit. PLEASE get out of your tiny echo chamber. It’s not normal. Hope this all helps
The way you're literally making shit up. He was the only one who mentioned the pronoun choice, literally nobody else mentioned it and I had to scroll pretty far to find it. There is literally no reason for your crash out, but you decided to harass a trans man for no reason because uhhhh "men are invading your spaces"? Note how you only mention men, even though you had two nonbinary people in the comments thanking him for mentioning the pronoun choice.
Maybe you should stay out of women's spaces, nobody needs a fucking terf around, go harass people in the bathroom or something, actual fucking weirdo. I feel bad for getting baited and giving you the attention you clearly get off to but jesus fucking christ. Go to therapy. You keep telling people not to bother you with their trauma, but you're clearly using random people to take out yours on them. 2013 trauma olympics? Grown ass woman harassing queer teenagers online, yikes.
I saw plenty of comments that were just complaints, so idk what you mean about that.
Dude I’m going to be completely real with you, I think that YOU need therapy. I don’t give a fuck that he’s a trans guy. Should I other him? Should I walk on eggshells around him because he is part of a marginalized demographic? Is that what you think the ultimate goal is? For trans guys to not be treated interchangeably with cis guys?
Fuck you, I’m queer and you don’t know the first thing about me. Go ahead and call me a terf if that’s what you really need to do to make yourself feel better. Anyone who has differing opinions is for sure some horrific type of -ism. Maybe if I could even come relatively close to taking you seriously, I would reflect on that, but I can see right through all of this. And none of you will reflect on multiple women pointing out what I’m saying, so it’s really just irrelevant. Maybe you’re used to walking through life and tossing your gender identity in peoples faces in the hopes they’ll back down for fear of offending you, but I don’t give a fuck how much you cry and seethe. Do you not think trans men are men? Because how else exactly are they incapable of being misogynistic? Genuinely HOW have so many of you brought that up as if it’s some sort of huge factor? Are you sure you aren’t the transphobe terf trash?
What I’m getting from this above all else is that you guys (IM NOT USING THIS AS A GENDERED TERM, SO DONT START CRYING) have no real world experience. You want to act like you’re being hate crimed from some fucking comments on the Internet when I was the last person to bring any sort of transness into this argument. But do you want to know what I really think? I think those of you who are AFAB feel that you’re entitled to women’s spaces and I truly do see right through that. Eat shit, I’m not going anywhere. Go play yaoi and jerk off about how marginalized, oppressed, and traumatized you all are. IDGAAAAFFFFFFFFF.
And also? Teenagers shouldn’t be on fucking itch.io to begin with, LOL. Dumb fuck freak.
As a queer female, people like you do nothing but make our community look bad. All he did was give a general content warning for people who didn't see those tags. He is not a misogynist, or 'invading women's spaces', he gave a general heads up for fellow queer people. The game is not openly marketed as an 'otome' game, it is called a 'dating sim' and a 'visual novel'. This is literally said on the title screen of the game. Nowhere in the description is it said that the MC is a female. The only way you would know this is if you went to the 'more information' part of the page and read it.
I am also used to women being talked over and shit on in gaming spaces, but he wasn't doing that. You do not speak for all women. You made a mountain out of a molehill and hurt your own cause. Men look at people like you and use it to justify their own prejudice against women in the gaming community. Take away all the talk about trans people and gender identity and go back to the beginning. You saw someone give a general warning about the pronouns in a fictional dating sim, and decided that was what you were going to get angry at. You were going to stick it to this random commenter who did nothing other than use the word 'warning' in a place you didn't like, and you saw that as offensive. That is the most pathetic thing that I have seen in a long time.
You can cherry pick all you’d like, but there were multiple things said to me in this thread that were misogynist in nature. I’m not going back to reread this stuff in order to give you examples bc I’m done with this discourse at this point. I have also said like fifty times now that giving a disclaimer for prospective players that it’s a female mc isn’t an inherently bad thing, so explain to me: how is me pointing out that you never see this in reverse a bad thing either? It really isn’t. That’s how this all started, that’s the only point I initially made. Also, are you fr telling me of all people to not make this about transness? Because I said the same thing over and over. The tags say otome, people should learn how to read tags. My point in saying that an otome game is a space for women is that THIS is an otome game and I’m still being blasted from all angles in comments telling me how dare I say that we don’t need a dozen comments griping about how they wish you could play as a boy. This is simply not something you see in games with a male MC. You’re saying some genuinely crazy shit, like that this is why men shit on women in gaming spaces??? Men shit on us in gaming spaces because they shit on us in all spaces because of how many men don’t view women as equals. I’m not gonna walk on eggshells around men so that I don’t accidentally validate their misogyny, lmfao you gotta be smoking crack. Again, tell me how exactly I got angry at first. Go the fuck back and read every comment and tell me again that the first comment was actually what set me off. Or is it to much to ask that you get off your soapbox?
❤️
this argument was living rent-free in my head, so i really appreciate your message.
dunno if it's healthy for u to engage any further though cuz i noticed she already left a response (only read the first few sentences) and i feel like it's literally gonna spiral into another fight
i wonder why are you so uncomfortable with the idea of playing as a woman? women had to cope with strictly male protagonists for literal decades, and even nowadays there are a shitton of games with male protags, yet, surprise-surprise, no one has a problem with it. women deserve to have their own space, with their own protags. stories dont have to go out of their way to justify WHY they had to put a female mc in it, because no one does that for male mcs! and, once again, you should ask yourself why playing as a woman is so triggering to you, whether you are trans or not. (hint: its misogyny)
if multiple women are telling you that you guys are coming off as misogynist, STFU AND LISTEN. genuinely so fucking insane
okay girl ✌️✌️
EDIT: LOL showing true colors now huh? learn to take the L like a normal human being, you unstable douche
believe me i've met crazier people LOL
said it to another person but just in case, don't feel like you need to engage with her. it doesn't feel healthy
Holy shit, aggressive much? Nowhere on the page does it say it is an otome game. The only way you would know that is if you search the otome tag. It is marketed as a 'dating sim', which often have multiple pronouns to choose from.
edit: Yes, it does show the otome and female protagonist tag in the 'more information' portion of the page. However, a lot of people don't see that. He just gave a general warning for the people who didn't see that.
yes and as I said in other comments, giving a heads up in the comments isn’t the issue. men freaking out on me and saying “I hate women like you” and calling me an idiot right off the rip while complaining that it’s soOoOo triggering to play as a woman and how daAAaAare I point out that you never see it in reverse is obviously going to make me hostile. your semantics argument about how in some places it’s called a dating sim does not mean anything to me. If it says otome in the description and tags, that’s really a skill issue on your guys’ part
"I'm not a man. Idiot. I hate women like you who assume everybody who doesn't agree with you is a man." -Sam a few comments up.
idrc at this point. as I said, I'm not going back to read this shit before replying any more. I'm clearly not trying to misgender anyone, the victim complex is really tiring at this point. non-women people. there. wipe your tears now. I am literally blocking each of y'all bc I don't care about this anymore and I'm not gonna go back and forth for months lmao
