Lol. The dev crashout isn't there anymore.
But this still hasn't been fixed.
Tags: Vanilla, Harem, Romance, Drama, Mystery
What it should say.
Tags: Harem, Romance, Prostitution, Netorase, Drama, Mystery
Maybe if the side whore didn't get promoted to main girl it wouldn't have become such an issue.
But now that she is a main girl, we will have to deal with unnecessary drama and recurring bs.
Edit: typos.
(You can't have vanilla when a main character is whoring)
Once again, not exactly sure where people are getting main girl from her.
Also, this is a story driven game, not a sex driven game. Very personality, personal circumstance driven, and if you don't like that then there is always avoiding the game in the first place. If you want a shallow sex simulator, look elsewhere. If you want unquestioned devotion and mindless fucktoys, look elsewhere. If you want a story with substance, this is one of the few h games you'll get that in.
Nothing official or exclusive was decided between the mc and her. The choice to not fuck her, also there. You end up fucking her despite knowing she's a prostitute, that's on you. You can't then blame her or the dev. Those were your choices. Not only that, none of the dialogue screams "love interest" for her. It's just you trying to thank her for saving your sister by trying to become her friend. If you somehow got attached, that's on you. Her being a prostitute was known from the start.
I am not going to say much more but there are a few things I'ma end this with.
Touch some grass. Learn how to have female friends. Stop objectifying women(ironic considering the circumstances, but it still stands since you're only mad she's a prostitute because of the fact she's not exclusive to you).
Not everything is about sex. Not every interaction you have with a woman is about sex. If you see the events of her story as netorase, you REALLY need to learn the definition of netorase cus this don't fit it.
Judging from a lot of the comments he's posted here, it's kinda starting to feel like he's the dev's biggest simp white knight.
I mean, I can see/understand SOME of the points he makes but it also seems like he gets really heated sometimes and that's not a good look as it doesn't actually contribute anything meaningful to the conversation.
Heh. Simp. Very interesting. Very very interesting indeed.
Call what I say "heated" I'm just pointing out the reality of this all.
And what I said directly related to the guy's "tag topic"
Because I'm literally saying that it's not netorase. The player has no claim over her. Nothing was made official. That's like having a friend, who them cheats on her boyfriend with you, breaks up with her boyfriend, fucks another one of her friends and claiming you were cucked. You weren't.
So once again, call me heated, call me a simp, I'm just all for respecting women and men alike, and get a lil annoyed when people mislabel things based off their own opinions rather than fact.
Learn what ntr means. Please.
You probably misunderstood, you're the DEVS biggest simp/white knight.
I say this because every post that mildly disagrees with the dev/dislikes the game has you jumping in, fully kitted out in platemail to defend your lord's honor, with your sword and shield in hand.
You're even willing to dig deeper than physically possible as well, as a great deal of the things you say are a bit of a stretch. So therefore I've come to the conclusion that either you're a detective or some sort of psychologist/therapist because of how you dig deep looking for things that just might not even exist at all.
Ohhhhhh.. nah.
I would do the same anywhere. Even for a game I hate otherwise. Maybe I'm the one that needs to touch grass idk man. But tbh Idrc about dev. I'm not in the Discord, and up until like two days ago I had never even checked the patreon for even the free progress reports he had made.
And they're not mildly disagreeing, mate. Trust me there are plenty of mild disagreements I made no response to. A lot of the ones I've responded to are the same people low key harassing dev to change something that genuinely doesn't need to be changed. And like any sensible human being I don't stand for harassment so like..
Internet man-babies screaming about how a girl that ain't even theirs isn't.. y'know, theirs. A fictional girl at that.
I do agree that the hate's a bit extreme but it goes both ways a little too.
I've seen people like soldier screaming at the top of his lungs, people screaming at people like him, then people like me who TRIES to use logic and reasoning and just gets downvoted to hell anyways because I STILL disagree with the dev's decision and that's apparently enough to warrant downvotes.
Makes me think both sides don't really read what's being posted past something like "I hate that Chika's a prostitute" or "There isn't NTR (would then go on to say 'because...')"
I'm planning on making my final judgement whenever the next update's posted. If I don't like the direction it takes, then I'll just leave.
There was an old patreon post a while ago where KS basically said he made Yuka and Eri side characters so that he could focus more on a specific character's story. That's definitely a point of contention as Yuka is at least a commonly reoccurring (and seemingly well-liked) character.
People assumed Chika's story WAS that specific character's story. Another reason people call Chika a main girl is because of how she appears in that sort of flash forward at the beginning where it feels like it foreshadows the MC's harem. So it's a safe assumption to make that she IS a main girl. Plus she's a commonly occurring character and the main girls are usually shown quite often in these types of games.
Yuka and Eri also appear in that flash forward. Cutting back on characters to focus on another person's story isn't making that person a main character, or the others side characters. It just means that you're giving a certain character depth.
For example, if KS suddenly said "I'm cutting back on a lot of the girl's stories to focus on another character" and the next update, Harry had like 75% of the screentime, that doesn't make him a main love interest. Or hell, female interests, if he had mc hang out with that one girl that you helped in the beginning.
Edit: I do kinda understand why that would make people think of her as more a main girl, plus she does appear in plenty of image spreads on the patreon so perhaps she really is a main girl. Idk.
Yuka and Eri appearing in that flashforward makes them appear as if they're important. In most of these games, side characters' routes aren't required for the best or harem endings, they're usually added filler at the end with stuff like "so and so was there too." And important love interests usually equals main love interests. And if that flashforward is basically the "best/harem" ending then yeah.
And it'd depend on if that character's story being focused on affects the ENTIRE game. If the post he made a while ago said something like "I'm holding OFF on their stories for a while." Then it'd be fine. But instead it pretty much said that he's making them side characters. So less screen time, less development, pretty much less everything.
It wouldn't make Harry a main LI but it could very well mean he's now a main character. (hopefully my memory is correct) He's that blonde guy who's basically the MC's best friend right? Judging from some hints and tells, he pretty much already IS an important character too.
Yeah I wouldn't argue that he is a main character. Same logic could be applied to any of the girls who the MC currently CLEARLY has an attraction to. Chika isn't one of those.. yet.
However while the two of them appearing in the flashback does make it confusing, Yuka says in one of the post chapter "set scenes" that there isn't any incest.
Yet she was in the flashback. Important, not a love interest. Your bond as siblings probably grows quite a bit though. Not sure what that means but either way, that aside..
Obviously it's not the same situation with Chika. I just think it is way to early for people to be developing that kind of connection to Chika. I mean obviously eventually she'll be up for a relationship but at this point of the story? Not sure how anyone would even think about going for her "route" and getting upset about something that is clearly a temporary arrangement in the game. That's like getting upset about your gf having had fwbs before you got into a relationship. Makes no sense.
That's why I don't understand how it is NTR.
First things first. If the MC DID get with Yuka it would depend on your definition of incest for it to BE incest. If you consider incest to be any family relationship (including things like step-mother, step sister, and two people in the same family despite not ACTUALLY being related.), then yes, it would be. But, unless my memory is failing me once again (haven't played the game in roughly 5 months), Yuka isn't related to the MC through blood, can't remember if she's adopted or what though. So if your definition of incest requires blood relations, then it wouldn't be incest.
"That's like getting upset that your gf had fwbs before you got into a relationship. Makes no sense."
That means "Friends with benefits" right? (actual question)
If so, then congratulations! You've just discovered a new piece of evidence for why people are upset. In the modern day there's a decent amount of drama surrounding things like OnlyFans and people having copious amounts of sex. Most people don't really want their partner to have had say... a thousand ex partners, as that could signify some sort of problems they don't want to deal with. In other words, it's usually seen as a red flag. Nor do they want others to see their romantic partners naked. A vast amount of people that have an OF page, have both copious amounts of sex (sometimes their videos are WITH their romantic partners and sometimes NOT) AND have people pay to see them naked. Both things people aren't too fond of in their partners as they walk the line between some form of NTR and normal exclusivity. And as such, people aren't too fond of dating both current AND ex prostitutes for that exact same reason. They have copious amounts of sex AND people see them naked all the time.
Chika's relationship with the MC is more of a close friend at the time of her H-scene. If the player chooses "yes" THEN it becomes a singular, smaller step closer to NTR as you've at least had sex with her and that COULD advance the relationship, though in this game it won't because it DOES give you more points with her for turning down her offer, most of the people giving the game an EXTREME amount of hate don't completely understand that.
They're not related by blood, however, as I said, she herself(Yuka) mentioned that there would be no incest. If it was a matter of blood, "incest" wouldn't have been particularly mentioned. It is clear the dev is going by that definition of incest(that being even step relatives).
So not by my own definition, but by the definition implied by the fact she even mentioned incest in the first place.
Also, yes the issue of your partner having had a thousand partners. Yes, that's disgusting. It would be an issue if she hadn't told you and it were never hinted at. Especially if it was only ever hinted at or mentioned after your sideways mattress scuffle. That's what I mean. No one is forcing you down her path, plenty of people in the comments have even mentioned never really interacting with her, and clearly hadn't gotten the scene where MC talks to her dad to stop being such an ass. Y'know, cus they were smart and read the cues and genuinely didn't want to get into her personal life. Maybe the town criers shoulda done that.
Her occupation was mentioned, hinted at, and vocally CONFIRMED by the time you ever got the chance to stick your dick in. And she only offered it to you in a drunken crisis, not in a romantic sober state.
If you chose to go ahead with it, that's on you man. Either way her story isn't at that stage yet. So once again, I'm not sure why people are screaming about it when she's not even an option yet.
And, y'know. They'd all be hypocrites because I know for a FACT they aren't rejecting sex every chance it comes up.
And by the way, dudes getting upset about a girl having been with multiple people(stepping away from the prostitution for a sec) is honestly funny cus it be those same dudes to have been with multiple women. Fun double standards. Although with Chika you genuinely don't know how many guys she's been with so it is understandable if you wouldn't want to be with her. That's not my issue with this. It's the harassment trying to force a label which honestly isn't even correct thinking about it logically. And even thinking about it in a "I don't want my girl to be a prostitute or OF model" if they stopped that shit before getting with you, you're not being cucked. And you weren't being cucked. It's gross, yeah. But it doesn't fit the definition.
Either way, a girl doesn't have to be fuckable/dateable in the story in order to be an interesting story addition. They coulda chose to leave her alone. Or they coulda chose to just be friends. So as I've said many times they're all still crying over self imposed issues.
Yeah I can pretty much agree with this for the most part.
"If it was a matter of blood, incest wouldn't have been mentioned." This is the type of "stretch" that I was talking about. For all we know it could've just been an oversight by the dev or something akin to it. Or maybe that's just my hopium talking.
But at the end of the day it's still an Adult VN that some people use to live out whatever fantasies they want, while others just enjoy the stories and characters in them. The harem parts imo, are just there so people don't have to play the game a hundred times JUST to see each scene with each girl. Gives them the option to pursue whoever they want without any real consequences basically. And because they're part of the fantasies too I guess. Then another part of people's fantasies tends to be that they want their partners to be 100% loyal and almost perfect in every way. THAT tends to include things like "3 or less ex partners," "not a prostitute/has NEVER been a prostitute," "Will never cheat," etc. Then, the final part is that they pretty much want every attractive character to be fuckable/dateable. Like Wild Cats has Bianca who isn't fuckable/dateable and people are a bit disappointed by that. I also recommend that game btw.
The dev definitely made a ballsy move making Chika a "prostitute" though. So I guess it's partly his own fault too? I mean, he should've anticipated the backlash at the very least. Especially considering it's a genre where most of the players don't really want that.
Never played Wild Cats, probably will give that one a try.
And I will admit there are a lot of female characters I find attractive or interesting that aren't ever made into a route. I just kinda.. accept it. Take a look within, spot the gooner and say "Buddy.. you have like 9 other girls tf are you doing?"
If I get upset about something I tend to look at the situation and if I'm wrong, I am wrong.
People around here do have valid reasons for being upset, many of which you have mentioned. But in my logical brain(I simply mean my own logic), I believe that none of it should've been possible or misunderstood. Misinterpreted. Whatever word I'm trying to use rn.
Also about Yuka, that's why I said "Not sure what that means". I may think she means "Yeah mc and I are just going to bond, nothing sexual." but then next thing I know dev bends the terms of that and does something that isn't "technically" incest(and she does say "well not technically[not incest]" so my first assumption might definitely be incorrect.)
I'm assuming(if he decides to bend the terms) that there is a threesome of sorts where Yuka "helps" with either Miharu or Chika(one of the two idk, they both seem like plausible picks), but doesn't engage in anything with mc directly.
4 days late but while I am not too keen on the prostitute thing, she goes into it for money and dealing with a deadbeat dad, not because she want's to just enjoy sex. I mean fucked up truth is, that is probably the fastest way for a teen girl to make enough money to survive off. I don't mean like OF girls that start right at 18 because they want quick, but she actually needed it to survive before MC and his sister come along.
I am in no way saying that I like main LI's being prostitutes in a harem game but it seems to be going the route of saving her and getting her out of that life, whether as a friend or lover. Which would probably make her 100% loyal... or you can ignore her I guess. But even if I decide not to pursue her as a LI, I will as a friend. I think if done right (we will see this update hopefully) we could get a good mature story about saving her from a shit life as a prostitute. More that than any form of NTR.
But I like Ayase and Miharu (I think think that's her name) more so maybe I am not as upset since I am not as invested atm.
Speaking off topic though, for the flashback. I think it would be pretty cool of that wasn't the end of the story, but rather a scene that shows up in the next update or the one after that. And then the true storm happens after that. "Well now we're all caught up." the everything turns to shit. Like some hardcore story shit, losing people emotionally(like people walking out on you for your choices) etc. If that first scene was the ending, it just wouldn't quite feel.. that the story was worth it. Idk it seemed hella generic and almost convinced me not to play.
Anyway, back on topic. I understand many things you have pointed out. It is very understandable why people would come to certain conclusions related to what you have asserted. My entire point here now is that it shouldn't exactly have been possible to get to that conclusion if you were thinking straight.
That being said, you were clearly in your right mind while playing. Obviously, probably also there for the gooning but you weren't walking in with your lust pack in tow the entire way through. Yet you still somehow missed certain visual, verbal, and emotional cues from her end.
And my solution was terribly worded as well. If a character says they are a prostitute, or there is a rumor, don't treat it as though she is, but hold onto it with a HUGE asterisk. "I'll come back to this detail later" type shit. Then wait until you get your clarifying moment. Read dialogues, don't skip as some of these people clearly did. Learn when something qualifies as a certain genre. etc.
I'm just bad with social cues man. No clue why, but I have a hard time reading people unless it's so incredibly obvious that even a blind person could see it. I'm slightly better at it IRL, but fictional characters are tough sometimes.
I'm good at detecting "twist" villains and strange things. Like all of Harry's tells for instance. You go out to eat/hang out with him and suddenly some weird shit happens. Yeah, THAT I can piece together as being strange/suspicious/weird/ a telling sign of something being off. But with more subtle things I just can't read them at all. Sometimes I can notice some body language or the character's smile disappearing when something is said, etc.
But for the most part I just can't really pick out any cues like that. I also seem to struggle with idioms, poetic/philosophical things, as well as hidden meanings behind words. If I think a sentence has a different meaning than what is actually said, I end up rereading it like 20 times until I either give up or am satisfied with whatever explanation I came up with.
If you dont like it dont play. It is different, I will acknowledge that. Hell I'd go as far as saying SOME tags could be changed. BUT there is thus far no NTR and only a glimpse of maybe changing her mind to a better life, IF she's established as a LI. Fuck outta here knocking a good game, go make one exactly how you want it.
Yeah I am probably making a mistake by posting on this thread but whatever. I don't know how nuanced they are with tags but it seems like her story is going to involve getting her out of that life, so considering her and the MC aren't in a relationship at the moment, does it count as sharing if she at least stops being a prostitute before a relationship starts between her and the MC? A genuine question.
With the vanilla tag I imagine there wouldn't be any NTR of any kind. Prostitution should be added at least.
Either way, while she does see to be an obvious main LI (hintedat at the beginning), she is optional so if she stays a prostitute in .4, easy enough to stop pursuing. For me. A former prostitute can be tolerable if done right... maybe.
