Post by AlSoKnown in AI generation disclosure

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The analogy works better with the tracing.

Of course I was joking, I understand what you were trying to say. Nevertheless, both analogies actually hold. Humans learn to draw by looking at existing drawings/objects and trying to repeat them in whole or in part, there is just no other way.

The main difference is that AI is much more efficient at both learning and drawing. This story is quite similar to many previous waves of progress, such as industrial revolution. Of course, there is inevitable fallout when manual work is replaced by technology, and those affected deserve sympathy, just like Luddites did 200 years ago.

Nevertheless, even Luddites did not go as far as to attack customers of the factories they destroyed, so I think discrimination against AI users is entirely unjustified regardless of position on the AI as a concept.

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A Fals Fiction102 days ago (3 edits) (+1)

Customers are customers.

In your Luddite comparison, generative AI users in professional jobs are factory workers, forced to use the technology to keep an income. Amateur developers who choose to use related tech while trying to hide its problems are like the huckters of the time…? Anyhow, AI developers are the factory builders who aren’t much different than the line workers other than receiving higher pay for being less likely as a demographic to be children, women, and marginalized immigrants. Evil companies are evil companies.

Back when the massively polluting and employee-endangering line factories went up, some customers did care about which parts were made in those factories, for quality and moral reasons.

In today’s world with the massively polluting and employee-endangering generative AI industry, customers want to know which parts were made in these programs, for quality and moral reasons.

In both situations, fans of the new technology like the labels, too.

If honest disclosure makes the project look bad to everyone, including the people who don’t care how it was made, then the project is that bad. A clear disclosure would only scare away those of us who will get angry at the promoter (responsible for the project page) if we later feel tricked.

(edited b/c I was raised up with post previews— I miss those— and I don’t have an automated spellchecker here)

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AlSoKnown101 days ago (2 edits) (+1)

AI developers are the factory builders who aren’t much different than the line workers other than receiving higher pay for being less likely as a demographic to be children, women, and marginalized immigrants.

This sentence is a bit hard to parse, so maybe I misunderstood, but I am pretty sure that “AI developers are paid more for not being children” is true only in very convoluted sense that (most) children not good in AI development. I suspect the proportion of immigrants working in AI development in countries with comparatively weak CS education (such as US) is actually quite high, although I do not have the numbers.

customers want to know which parts were made in these programs, for quality and moral reasons.

I disagree with forced labeling of any product for “moral reasons”. This is a huge can of worms and very prone to abuse.

Now, quality reasons are different matter. It is certainly true that many games containing some AI content are junk. However, same is true for games without AI content. Usage of AI is maybe statistically noticeable signal of quality, but I doubt it, especially due to the fact that many developers may not even realize they used some piece of AI-assisted technology somewhere.

Voluntary labeling of products is of course fine. Like “proudly made using only X”. As I random example, my game is coded from scratch with no game engine, and I would like to label it as such, but of course that does not mean in any way that I am somehow against game engines.

If honest disclosure makes the project look bad to everyone, including the people who don’t care how it was made, then the project is that bad.

I disagree with the usage of word “everyone” here. First, people who don’t care will, by the very definition, not care, so it will not look bad for them. Second, “everyone” is still very suspicious, assuming unanimous bias across all the potential users.

We can re-state this statement more correctly as “If honest disclosure makes the project look bad to some people who care, then the project is that bad.”. And I do not see how we can reasonably support such a statement.

Sorry if paragraph above sounds like sophistry, but that was extremely general statement, so I am forced to respond in extremely general way.

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