Post by Busyman4this in The Endless Workday Update [0.2.0] comments

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Hey, finally got a chance to sit down and play.

First of all, great job on the "what's next/planned section"! It answered a bunch of questions and helps explain the grand plan.

I do have a few questions that weren't answered, so I'll start with them:

Will realms have unique/exclusive upgrades?

The way the game works now, you beat Shrimpie, the waking world progresses. Then you need to beat Shrimpie, then Ms Fin to progress again.

So, when the next realm is added, will it work similarity? EG: Beat new realm boss, progress, then beat new realm boss, then +versions of Shrimpie and Ms Fin, then progress.

Is a training room/dojo planned? It could be part of the in-game web, a "dream simulator" website.

Writing: Not much new to write about here, but the exchange with Fin, Minnow, and the Italian wolf lady was fun. It would be interesting to see Shrimpie show up afterwards to talk to Minnow about what happened, or even it revealed she eavesdropped on the situation?

Roman Empire is a great idea for enemies/level design, especially if it's got a daylight colour scheme.

Gameplay:

The Jam version has kind of distorted my view of what I remember 0.11 to exactly be like.

I'll split this up into further subgroups

Player Control:

The player's basic M1 attack is still a bit off IMO. The forward momentum from the combo makes a bit of sense, but the player is stuck a bit too long on the third hit, which kind of makes me start going for 2 hit strings rather that completing them (this also made me wonder if you plan on any type of alternating combo strings, like "click, click, wait 1 second, click 'different finishing string', ect).

The actual swinging animations of the katana also make it a bit hard to gauge the reach of each part of the string. I get that Minnow is supposed to be swinging widely like an anime character, but it looks a bit visually cluttered. I won't harp on this though, since you plan on adding additional weapons (I assume the secondary attack will change with the weapons as well?)

Another thing needed is a hit confirmation sound that the player has connected with the enemy. Enemies do react with sound when hit, but IMO this doesn't negate the need for a sound produced by the sword, as the player will likely be listening for other sounds.

The AOE is much improved this time around, if mainly by the addition of elemental damage. It now feels like a solid feature rather than the afterthought it felt in the Jam/0.11 version.

I still am not a total fan of it, though, and hope that additional options for the katana, as well as other weapons having different secondary attacks.

NPC/Bosses:

The NPCs have gained some improvements since 0.11. Pufferfish are much more functional, and enemies feel more threatening, if a bit on the annoying side at times.

The way enemies react to hits with knockback is a step in the right direction, but right now feels a bit too floaty IMO and seems kind of like they're on ice.

The Orca Tank is a solid addition to the roster, though depending on the player's build it could seem a bit underpowered, like it needs another attack option, like slightly ranged jab perhaps.

Enemies popping into reality is also something that might need a visual additional to counter. Like them either walking through the map gateways, or appearing through a cloud of bubbles.

Pathfinding is also a bit odd, with it being obvious that a lot of enemies are tracking Minnow through the level tiles, rather than attempting to follow a set path to him. I think the tracking makes sense when the player is in the open, but not so much when they shouldn't be able to clearly see him.

Stairs are kind of weird still, but still better than they were in the Jam version.

Boss-wise. I think Shrimpie is a MAJOR improvement over both Jam and 0.11, though I think she's still a bit too easy to bully. Though honestly with the plus videos of the dungeons coming I don't think any major additions are needed for the base version.

https://streamable.com/jrdqmb

Here is a fight I recorded with her, just to give some visual rep.

Fin is still a bit odd to me. It feels like it's very hard to justify fighting her without resorting to hit and run tactics. Though the ice elemental is pretty helpful with her (though it did mess up my timing of the trident throw for me later!)

https://streamable.com/zta604

My main gripe is her tail sweep attack at 24-25 seconds in this video. I have no idea if that's a bug, but I swear that always happens whenever I try to fight her more head-on. I feel like I'm getting the dodge timing correct, but I still get hit from very far away!

https://streamable.com/jm6vyc

This is just the second half of a run after Shrimpie. Not my best one, lol, but I think it does a good job at showcasing a lot of minor stuff with the NPCs mods, plus another Fin fight at the end.

If I had to give a sum up of things I think need work, it would simply be: Slight rework of attack strings/hit confirmation sounds NPC Mobs reaction to hits/Knockback look, ect

NPC Mobs Pathfinding

Look into Fin's attacks/hitboxes.

I also think the webstore is a great feature, though it's a bit limited right now with the upgrades, so I can't comment on it much.

Final Thoughts:

As a few others have said, It would be interesting if we can later interact with the characters outside of dreams, like taking them out on a date. Obviously you might have your own plans on how this progresses with the story, but it'll be nice to see how that goes.

Game is steadily improving, and I can't wait to see where it goes!

BCSM161 days ago(+1)

Woah, thanks for all the feedback! That's a lot to unpack and surely was a lot to reflect on and put into words, so, sincerely, thanks a ton for such commitment! I will try to answer all of it to the best of my ability.

> Will realms have unique/exclusive upgrades?

Yep, I was thinking on maybe creating a menu that opens before going to sleep that affects what goes to the pill slot. E.g. we beat Lupina (or, rather, her mini-boss), she gives us the puppy plushie IRL (ignore the nonsense, I'm making those examples up as I go), now the options are to take a pill or to fall sleep hugging a plushie. That probably means that those items won't give you a plain second life, but will each have their own quirks. This idea isn't carved in strone, though, like any that I speculate on but haven't had time to test in the actual game, obviously the ideas that end up not working well gameplay-wise won't get included.

> Is a training room/dojo planned? It could be part of the in-game web, a "dream simulator" website.

Yep, we have a slightly different idea on how exactly that will work, but we do have a very clear idea of what the dojo is going to be like. It will come with different weapon options, though (I mean, 90% of what it does is lets you get the feel of a new moveset), which is not coming terribly soon.

Thanks for the feedback on the Lupina into scene, as you can see it currently cuts halfway, so yep, we will see where that same day goes. We most likely need to introduce Lupina's miniboss in the same "day".

>The player's basic M1 attack is still a bit off IMO...

Never considered alternating sequences and it's probably a little too confusing, but I do agree that stripping away the control for too long is annoying. We might lower the time of that, but the third hit deals x1.5 damage (applied after boons, stacks), so I believe there is still an incentive to use that, you just have to keep in mind that it is very committing (eg don't use on Fin or the Orca since you can't interrupt their attacks, do use it against the Shrimp since you wan't the largest damage per hit and she knockback is huge on her anyway).

Yep, AoE is also weapon-dependent.

I agree that the moan does not replace the smack, we need to add that.

When additional weapons are introduced the katana's AOE might end up migrating to a different weapon and in this case katana would get a different one.

> The way enemies react to hits with knockback is a step in the right direction, but right now feels a bit too floaty IMO and seems kind of like they're on ice.

Yep, I feel like the knockback was too choppy before and now it's a little too smooth. Have to balance that.

A second attack for an orca sounds very interesting, never considered that.

>Enemies popping into reality is also something that might need a visual additional to counter. Like them either walking through the map gateways, or appearing through a cloud of bubbles.

Yep, you can even see an attempt at that, but it doesn't do the main thing (consealing the moment of spawning) as it's been in this fetal state since the jam version. I feel like I do have a vision of how it should be, though, so it just needs time.

We probably should tweak the visibility, yeah. I went super generous on their vision since the previous versions since it was a little too easy to pick them out one-by-one, but sure the balance is yet to be found here as well.

Thanks for the gameplay recording! Sort of my experience with Shrimpie too, the main concern previously was that she could be no-skill shoved in a corner and brutalized there, now both my experience and your recording sort of just shows a player that plays well against an easy early-game boss and wins, which, yep, sounds right.

Fin's moveset is definitely to be changed as significantly as Shrimpie's was. The current idea is stupidly simple: tail swing = run away, not perpendicularly, trident throw = run perpendicularly, not away. I mean, I did see many people panic and try to run away from the tridents, but sure, the gameplay is super simple compared to the current incarnation of Shrimpie.

Thanks for the tail swing recording, it does look like the tail swing reaches a little too far and for too long, this will get fixed.

>As a few others have said, It would be interesting if we can later interact with the characters outside of dreams, like taking them out on a date. Obviously you might have your own plans on how this progresses with the story, but it'll be nice to see how that goes.

One thing I will confirm is that the office is planned to become a playable location but that is probably the furthest of the plans discussed in this exchange.

Once again, huge thanks for a thorough overview, lots of superficial reviews are very important for a more general understanding of what more-works-than-not, but they can't replace a super deep dive like that!

itch.io

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