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Suggestions for technologies in 0.3 Sticky

A topic by Calandiel created Aug 03, 2019 Views: 376 Replies: 8
Viewing posts 1 to 9
(1 edit)

Hey guys. We are working hard on 0.2 but 0.3 is getting closer and closer so I think it may be time to consider in more depth what exact technologies we should include in that update.
We'd like to hear your ideas and suggestions regarding technologies.  What kind of techs would you like to see?  ("writing" may be 'obvious' but what about 'Yam processing'?) What should be their dependencies (if any)?  What special requirements should they have? (you can't research metalworking with no metal to work) Would you prefer an extremely in-depth tree with hundreds (thousands?) of "techs" describing different (possibly specialized) areas of knowledge or a more general framework with fewer technologies?
Keep in mind that SotE wont use a simple civ-like tech tree and that there could be multiple ways of reaching new knowledge and that a great deal of scientific progress will happen without your direct contributions so having a lot of techs wont necessarily mean a lot of needless micro.

I'll stick this post in this channel category for ease of access and future reference.

whacky stick > club
whacky stick > pointy stick > hardened pointy stick > pointy stick with flint
rock > rock breaking > flint knapping > pointy stick with flint
food gathering > plant string > pointy stick with flint
whacky stick > pointy stick > rubbing two point sticks together for fire > hardened point stick

I like the idea of thousands of techs. That combined with the unique way of acquiring techs would make for unique playthroughs each time and a milestones for tech systems in video games, I believe.

I had a thought.  writing seems like one of the middle tiertechs a society should get as there are many techs before it that'd be needed.  Stuff like dye making, oral history, story telling, counting, etc.

also, I'd like to see the techs needing the material in question to experiment with in the early stages but as you get more and more into a more advanced society to start to allow predictions and theoretical tech to be attempted.  This of course would tie into having thousands of techs.  And the theoretical tech could fail if they don't have the necessary knowledge of other techs and maybe even consider it a dead-end and not bother researching it again until someone with the necessary tech makes the connections.  Further more there could be techs that just appear to be useless curiosities that much later prove to be extremely important base techs for other technologies.

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I would definitely like to see a very in-depth technology tree. I presume that some technologies may give a faction a combat advantage over an another faction, some may increase the life expectancy of the faction members or make their survival a little bit easier (such as Herbalism, Cooked Food, Leather Clothes, etc., as mentioned below), some may influence the way they expand, and who knows what else.

Here are some "ancient/classical era" technologies I thought of:

Plant Gathering -> Herbalism
Stone Tools -> Improved Stone Tools
   -> Stoneworking -> Masonry -> Stone Houses -> Castles
Simple Woodworking -> Wooden Clubs -> Hunting Spears -> Bows
   -> Hunting -> Trapping -> Leather Clothes -> Leather (Houses) Tents
   -> Woodworking -> Wooden Houses
Fire -> Cooked Food
Early Mythology -> Burials -> Paleolithic Art -> Stone Sculptures & Figurines
   -> Cave Painting -> Proto-writing
   -> Philosophy
   -> Religion -> Primitive Religious Architecture
The Wheel -> Cart-making
Pottery -> Primitive Food Preservation
Agriculture -> Irrigation
Dog Domestication -> Domestication of Farm Animals -> Horse Domestication -> Horseback Riding
Mining -> Early Metalworking -> Currency -> Copper Tools & Weapons -> Bronze Tools & Weapons -> Bronze Armor -> Iron Tools & Weapons -> Iron Armor
Fabric -> Boat Making -> Sailing

#NOTE: Techs such as "Copper Tools" could be broken down into "Copper Axe", "Copper Sickle", you name it.

When it comes to techs which are tied to a specific material (e.g., Metalworking, Copper Tools, etc.), a faction should, in my opinion, be able to research them ONLY if it has access to the resource. For example, a mountainous, landlocked tribe would hardly ever think of Sailing.

Some techs, such as Religion or Philosophy, could later be expanded into many smaller techs - theories or ideas/ideologies, which could influence the society of a certain faction. These theories could cause unrest, start a revolution, a civil war or the creation of fanatics. The possibilities are virtually limitless (as long as you are able to code it in, of course :P).

There could be many ways of acquiring new technologies, for example:

-at random - "heureka" moments (RNG-based?)
-through trade (chance to acquire technologies through trade routes)
-through diplomacy (an agreement about sharing technologies - agreements may be possible only after a certain technology, for example)
-through war (acquisition of the faction's supplies and territory)

(+1)

I think a potential source on tech trees could also be the Civilization IV mod Caveman 2 Cosmos, which has a very wide selection of different techs, especially in the ''prehistoric'' and ''ancient'' categories. Here's a link to the tech trees in question in case anyone is interested: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/tech-tree-statistics-and-ingame-tech-tree.625036/

Another thought that someone else mentioned first: dead-end techs, like the medical theory of humours, or anything taxonomic from Pliny.  Stuff that seems to make sense only if you have little to no evidence of how things actually work.

I'd like to see a whole mathematics tech tree. Also I'd like to see each culture that invents a numerical system getting a random (or less random) value assigned to the efficiency of their system. The Arabic numerical system was so much better than the roman counting system that it allowed them to progress in mathematics much faster, to the point that pretty much the entire world ended up adopting their system. Also the concept of Zero should not be taken for granted, it was actually a rather important discovery.

It's maybe an old thread but I wanted to give my contribution and some food for thought. I wanted to know how you wanted to do your tech progress, so I went on reddit and this is I think (correct me If I am wrong) how you want it in general terms :

-Pop Based discoveries and spread

-Multiples ways to achieve it

-A little like Victoria 2 (probabilities each month to discover a technology)

So I went to try to conceive a simple system to test some thing. It is mainly based on the pops stats which can be influenced in multiple ways, but here is the base :

Numbers : Numbers of pops

Culture : Determine cultural bonus and penalties

Species: Some species have it easier than others

(Un)Hapiness:  Self-explanatory

Job/Function: A farmer and a merchant will not have the same free time nor interest in developing the same tech.

Others factors like the Tile environment, Infrastructure, Species Interaction, Desperation or already discovered tech can be accounted, But I didn't to make it too complicate to begin with. I think this is the bare minimum in order to have a good spreading and tech progress, so after some testing to make it somewhat realistic, the equation is like this :

X = (N/1000000+C+S+H+J)/100

With X being the base chance of breakthrough/spread of a Tech. (N = Numbers, C= Culture, S= Species, H= Happiness, J=Job/Function)

N is divided by a million because otherwise it will be too fast to research tech and all of this equation is divided by 100 for the same reason. (Of course you could tweak to make it simpler I guess, but I'm no mathematician so I worked with that).

So let's say your pops want to have a basic wood spear, it could go like this.

You need one simple discoveries to achieve it :

-Find a solid branch and carve it in a deadly spear : base chance of 1

See it like a reverse Victoria 2 tech, your pops need to research the discoveries before they got the tech. Since it's a simple object, the base chance is high enough to achieve it rather quickly and there is only one discovery. So lets say that X = 0.01 and that we have monthly research tick like in Vicky 2.

0.01 or 1% is the probability, you got it, it's quite low, but as soon as the months passes, the chance of you researching it increase tremendously.

In one year there is 11% of chance you research it.

in ten year there is 66% of chance you research it.

In fourty year there is 99 % of  chance you research it.

So after this pops discover it, this technology will slowly begin to spread to your adjacents pops, they will have a good bonus, since this knowledge is knowed not far from them. Adding in the equation an infrastructure/adjacency variable would simulate it in practice.

The thing is I really don't know how you are gonna make it, it's just an idea I tried to have some kind of "base" to talk about since you didn't get too much into the details. The last thing I would add is since I've got no experience in development, I really don't know If this concept of mine will work out in terms of performance or objectives you fixed. I hope it helped you nevertheless.