Survival Set Abnormalities?

A topic by ZamBillard created 92 days ago Views: 785 Replies: 9

Viewing posts 1 to 3

I noticed when I was looking through the code to change the translation files to show the stats in equipment, items, and states descriptions rather than just mentioned of increases or decreases, that I believe the Survival set seems to have some oddities.

Each part claims in their description to give an increase in DEF, SPD, SUR and SCU in exchange for decreased Sexy and Weak; except for the bottom which increases Sexy and doesn't change Weak. However the code for the parts stats is a little all over the place and kinda counter act each other in terms of speed wise as well as some other small weird stat choices.

The Jacket(SurMid) takes away 0.05 speed and only takes away -5 Sexy compared to the Shawl's(SurTop) -10 Sexy which only covers "Back" compared to Jacket's entire torso both graphic and code-wise; I think these might make more sense having their Sexy swapped with one another at the very least and the speed might just be a simple mistake of putting a - rather than a +.

The Sash(SurMidExtra) gives 0.05 AND takes away 0.1 speed; this might be leftover from copy pasting code from another outfit as a base since I noticed some clothes have a hidden from their description negative speed stat ex. most of the Adventure parts have -0.1 each, except the Cape.

Boots(SurBot) gives an increase of 0.1 speed but only increases SUR by 2 unlike other parts giving 3; this might be intended balance it's just a bit weird it's the only part that does it.

In terms of the speed issue:

These two null each other
Jacket: +0.05
Shawl: -0.05
These two mostly counteract each other.
Boots: +0.1
Sash: +0.05 and -0.1
From the whole set you only get a total of: +0.05 speed

The 0.4 SCU boost is uniform across all the pieces so that seems fine. The only other stat oddity may be the Shawl having 3 DEF rather than 2 like the Boots due to covering less than say the Jacket or something but that's more or less a suggestion at this point.

Also kinda weird that the Shawl and Jacket are called Leather and the Boots and Sash are called Hunter indicating they could be separate sets; might just be due to the English translation.

annuilein92 days ago (1 edit)

i only glanced through this but the speed stat on the coat is a result of old description since all armor except shawl reduces speed now ever since the exhibitionism rework so any prior stats were nerfed if part was affected by the exhibitionism rework

ZamBillard91 days ago(+1)

I found the update that mentions the speed reduction to everything except "Top" equipment getting -0.1 to speed. I probably missed this update or didn't read over the notes then.

"-*fixed, Lona default move speed to 4.3, and each mid,bot,midext dress part now -0.1 moveSpeed.(nude move speed bouns)"

Her base speed got buffed so a full set of clothing, ignoring any Top, would put her back to a speed of 4.

If I'm looking at the stats again now with the description, outdated out not, and the nerf in mind:

Top has the +0.05 speed bonus like the description claims and doesn't have a nerf cause it's a Top; this makes sense for both.

Mid has -0.05 rather than -0.1; maybe this is still considered the speed bonus since it's not the full nerf, still a little weird.

Bottom has a +0.1 speed bonus rather than a -0.1 speed nerf; this is still a bit odd, no speed reduction at all.

MidExt has the +0.05 speed bonus and the -0.1 speed nerf; this one is redundant and should just be changed to one attribute of -0.05 to be cleaner code and would match Mid's stat if the speed bonus is still being taken into account

Total bonus of +0.05 is definitely better than other armors with -0.3 due to nerfs, I guess.

So other than the Bottom being only a bonus and lacking any sort of reduction which conflicts with the update and MidExt's weird unnecessary double stat maybe the set is working properly; just coding wise the set looks a bit messy and weird compared to the description, especially since I didn't know about that update.

Not a Slave Trader91 days ago (3 edits)

Well hello my friend who also tried to find logic in LonaRPG equipment~
I also dug into this matter and it wasn’t this that bothered me so much (btw - sex doll full set still gives you under 9 defense considering that you are literally naked) rather than the fact that some weapons are not particularly needed (but it is enough to lower the weapon requirements and they will become necessary) or for example holy magic still don't reworked since it is practically hard to use right now without big Lona lvls which is why there is no point in using holy magic at all sometimes because there are much better things... but in general your whole problem is connected with this -> LonaRPG\Text\ENG\DataEquip.txt and this LonaRPG\Data\Effects\Armors (SurBot, SurMid, SurMidExtra, SurTop) which can be fixed in literally 5 minutes just as you want (Btw - I still don't understand what the devs problem is with making an accurate description since constantly taking off and putting on clothes again and again to find out the increase is somehow... annoying).
- - - Fun fact - - -
Only the RU version has more accurate information about the armor and other things unlike other translations because no one exept Timur (LonaRPG RU translator) cared about it so much...

ZamBillard90 days ago (6 edits) (+2)

"but in general your whole problem is connected with this -> LonaRPG\Text\ENG\DataEquip.txt and this LonaRPG\Data\Effects\Armors (SurBot, SurMid, SurMidExtra, SurTop) which can be fixed in literally 5 minutes just as you want (Btw - I still don't understand what the devs problem is with making an accurate description since constantly taking off and putting on clothes again and again to find out the increase is somehow... annoying)."

This is exactly why I was starting to make a pseudo mod of the descriptions for the English translation to include the numbered stats, I'm not sure how to make it into an actual loadable mod rather than replacing the base files themself, so I just keep backups of the originals. Then ran into my issue of the original translated description not matching the code for the stat changes for this armor which halted progress to see if I could figure what was the correct stats or description for this armor set and if the stats were intended as they are or if the description was intended since it causes some confusion.

Right now my issue is the inconsistencies of the original description vs coded stat changes:

SurTop

\C[6]Increases DEF, SPD, SUR, and SCU.\n

"attribute_name": "move_speed",

"attribute_type": "max",

"adjustor": "+",

"adjustment": "0.05"

The Top passes both requirements; it has a increase like the description says and patch notes said it's not to be affected by the 0.1 nerf.

SurMid

\C[6]Increases DEF, SPD, SUR, and SCU.\n

"attribute_name": "move_speed",

"attribute_type": "max",

"adjustor": "-",

"adjustment": "0.05"

The Mid is the first outlier and does not have an increase nor does it have the full -0.1 like the nerf said. I half thought this might be a combined value of the original speed increase plus the nerf. +0.05 - 0.1 and you get the -0.05. Which is technically a speed increase compared to other armors that have the speed nerf, but on its own it's slower than not wearing it so it doesn't match the original description saying it increases SPD.
SurBot

\C[6]Increases DEF, SPD, SUR, and SCU.\n

"attribute_name": "move_speed",

"attribute_type": "max",

"adjustor": "+",

"adjustment": "0.1"

Bot is an increase like the description indicates but doesn't have any nerf which the patch said only "Top"s lack nerfs; so not sure what it's going for here, maybe related to the flavor text "I'm not wearing pants!~ ...B-Because wearing pants will just slow me down!"?

SurMidExtra

\C[6]Increases DEF, SPD, SUR, and SCU.\n

"attribute_name": "move_speed",

"attribute_type": "max",

"adjustor": "+",

"adjustment": "0.05"

"attribute_name": "move_speed",

"attribute_type": "max",

"adjustor": "-",

"adjustment": "0.1"

MidExtra has both an increase in speed and the intended nerf, but for some reason does 2 separate codes to do it. Plus as you can see in the screenshot, it just looks kinda dumb having both speeds mentioned. This could be trimmed down code wise to only have one code and just have it -0.05 like Mid does, assuming that is even the correct speed stat this set is going for in the first place, but again that'd be an overall decrease not an increase in speed when you equip it.

Right now if you have the entire set equipped you get a +0.05 speed increase, but the separate parts on their own don't all have positives toward speed like the description indicates.

So in general the code and original descriptions are just not in sync so pieces of the armor separately don't all follow what they say they should in terms of increasing speed. Either speed increase should be removed entirely from the armor pieces and it only be for "DEF, SCU, and SUR" as well as the description be fixed for that change or the code should be changed to actually increase the speed, which goes against the nerf that was supposed to buff Exhibitionist, which at that point might need another buff. This armor is in a weird spot right now.

Also minor note since I brought up Exhibitionist, the patch mentioned Exhibitionist gets 0.03 per exposed part, three total parts, but the chest gives 0.04. Probably cause 0.1 looks better math and gameplay wise, just noting since one would think it would have been 0.09.

jisn06490 days ago

bro when (if) you finish the mod @me I value the numbers way more than the descriptions

Not a Slave Trader89 days ago (2 edits)

Hmmmmm... I understand that the dev means that this Hunter Set helps you move faster because this armor doesn't constrains Lona movement like other armor but people still get confused why the speed is increasing and decreasing... "ehhhh?!" but I think there is a problem more in the lack of information about speed than the Hunter Set code stats themselves.

I mean this:
- Base Lona speed when she is naked = 4.30 SPD
(But some people still don't know about it so much)
- Lona speed when she is dressed = 4.30 SPD - 0.30 SPD = 4.00 SPD
(Mid, Mid Ext, Bot armor parts decrease Lona SPD = - 0.10 SPD x 3 = - 0.30 SPD)
- When wearing full Hunter Set = 4.30 SPD + 0.35 SPD - 0.30 SPD = 4.35 SPD
(Which is why the confusion begins because the base naked Lona speed = 4.30 SPD but the Hunter Set increase only + 0.05 SPD = 4.35 SPD although it is written that each part increase speed -> Top + 0.05 SPD, Mid + 0.05 SPD, Mid Ext + 0.05 SPD, Bot + 0.10 SPD and it's really is but people not to take into account the fact that wearing armor part is also decrease - 0.10 SPD and Hunter Set increase only + 0.25 SPD not the + 0.35 SPD... so your speed should be 4.25 SPD instead of 4.35 SPD... then... em... Why? Welp, there is a logical explanation about this extra speed bonus too).

!!! About !!! -> Why final full Hunter speed = 4.35 SPD instead of 4.25?
-> because the Hunter Bot part actually increase + 0.20 SPD instead of 0.10 SPD and it’s not about bad code or anything else but usually the Hunter Bot part do not tell us that this part of cloth is counted as a naked part which also includes the Naked Speed bonus + 0.10 SPD = 0.10 SPD + 0.10 SPD = increase + 0.20 SPD instead of + 0.10 SPD and this is why 4.35 SPD instead of 4.25 SPD and this is the reason why the full Hunter Set increase + 0.35 SPD instead of + 0.25 SPD considering the fact that wearing some armor parts decrease the final SPD.

Well... In principle the dev logic about armor stat is right that Hunter Set armor does not restrain her movement so much and returns the Base Naked Lona speed 4.30 SPD and even make Lona some faster + 0.05 SPD for somehow = 4.30 SPD + 0.05 SPD = 4.35 SPD. So... the Hunter Set speed calculations are basically correct but there is a lack of accurate information that verrrryyyy confuses... and to solve this problem it was enough to write it like that the some part of armor decrease Lona SPD by - 0.05 SPD (Mid and Mid Ext) exept of Hunter Top + 0.05 SPD and Hunter Bot + 0.10 SPD = Base 4.30 SPD - 0.05 SPD - 0.05 SPD + 0.05 SPD + 0.10 = 4.35 SPD with full Hunter Set.

!!! About !!! -> "More speed without full Hunter Set which is increases your SPD... whaaa??"
If you take off the Hunter Mid Ext and the Hunter Mid then you really will get even more speed than the full Hunter Set itself because the Hunter Mid increase 0.05 SPD and Hunter Ext increase 0.05 SPD and if you take off those 2 parts of Hunter clothes you will get a Naked Speed bonus 0.10 SPD per 1 part therefore 0.10 SPD x2 = 0.20 SPD that it is more than 0.10 SPD... soooo... wearing Hunter Mid and Hunter Mid Ext parts you decrease your speed by - 0.10 SPD therefore:
full Hunter set 4.35 SPD - 0.05 SPD - 0.05 SPD + 0.10 SPD x 2 = 4.45 SPD (without Hunter Mid and without Hunter Mid Ext + x2 Naked Speed bonus) and actually we get even x3 Naked Speed bonus + 0.30 SPD instead of x2 = 0.20 SPD because Lona doesn't has Hunter Mid and Hunter Ext parts + she is also has the Hunter Bot part which is also doesn't turn off x1 Naked Speed bonus = x3 Naked Speed bonus.
So... your SPD increase without Hunter Mid and Hunter Mid Ext parts by + 0.10 SPD = 4.45 SPD

Exhibitionist skill - Do not say that increase a lot of speed if you have Hunter Set because Exhibitionist skill increases SPD only if you have certain body parts open but if you open Exhibitionist skill it's confuse even more people in terms of the concept of increasing and decreasing SPD...

!!! About !!! -> Exhibitionist bonus SPD
Butt, Anal = + 0.03 SPD
Groin, Vag = + 0.03 SPD
Chest = + 0.04 SPD
Full Exhibitionist bonus = 0.03 SPD + 0.03 SPD + 0.04 SPD = 0.10 SPD
Full Naked Speed bonus 4.30 SPD + Full Exhibitionist bonus 0.10 = 4.30 SPD + 0.10 SPD = 4.40 SPD

Hunter Top + 0.05 SPD:
"equip_part_covered": ["Back"]
Therefore there is no extra Naked speed bonus or Exhibitionist skill speed bonus... If you take this off you'll only decrease your speed by - 0.05 SPD because this Hunter Top part increase + 0.05 SPD = 4.35 SPD - 0.05 SPD = 4.30 SPD (There is no point in removing this part especially since you will lose protection).

Hunter Mid + 0.05 SPD:
"equip_part_covered": ["Chest", "Arms"]
Therefore you get + 0.04 SPD increase if you take off the Hunter Mid part because of Exhibitionist skill (Chest part is open) + Naked Speed bonus + 0.10 SPD = + 0.14 SPD = 4.35 SPD - 0.05 SPD + 0.14 SPD = 4.44 SPD

Hunter Mid Ext + 0.05 SPD:
"equip_part_covered": ["Belly"]
There is also no extra Exhibitionist skill speed bonus but only Naked speed bonus + 0.10 but because this Hunter Mid Ext increased Lona SPD by + 0.05 SPD you get only + 0.05 SPD because you take off this Hunter Mid Ext part from Lona and decrease + 0.05 SPD bonus = + 0.10 SPD - 0.05 SPD = + 0.05 SPD = 4.35 SPD + 0.05 SPD = 4.40 SPD full Hunter Set speed without Hunter Mid Ext part + Naked Speed bonus.

Hunter Bot + 0.10 SPD:
"equip_part_covered": ["Vag", "Anal", "Feet"] = 4.35 SPD + 0.03 SPD
That's thing is kinda tricky because if you take off the Hunter Bot part then you decrease Lona SPD by - 0.10 SPD but at the same time the Exhibitionist skill speed bonus (Vag + Anal) start working + 0.03 SPD + 0.03 SPD = + 0.06 SPD + Naked Speed bonus works too even if Hunter Bot is worn or not + 0.10 SPD and therefore there is no reason to take it off because you only decrease Lona SPD by - 0.04 SPD because = 4.35 SPD - 0.10 SPD + 0.06 SPD = 4.31 SPD full Hunter Set speed without Hunter Bot part + Exhibitionist skill speed bonus.

In short... mainly the problem because of misinformation about Naked Speed bonus and the Hunter Bot part info and generally easier to really write that some parts of the Hunter Set armor decrease SPD (Mid and Mid Ext) and others increase SPD (Top and Bot) and then the problems with what the f... is here will become less.

And that's how it works ♪~

ZamBillard84 days ago (4 edits) (+1)

So I messed around for a while with the speed stat between this set's separate armor pieces to see if I could make it make more accurate to the descriptions without making it too strong.

I ended up changing 3 out of 4 of the pieces to increase speed by only +0.01 and the last piece to increase by +0.02; this follows the logic of each the of armor piece's description saying it "Increases SPD" since each piece now only gives a positive to speed and no longer has pieces having arbitrary negatives; I know all armors are supposed to have -0.1, except Tops, but there's no easy way to do this for this set the "increase speed" without parts sounding less than useful on their own, especially if you see the actual numbers: why use a part with -0.05, SurMid, when I could use one that has +0.05, SurTop, or +0.1, SurBot, for example with the old stats. I also tried to keep same total speed the entire set gave the same +0.05 that it was originally so not to break the speed balance compared to other armors, also this set is now properly slower than Exhibitionist's +0.1 SPD increase leaving that still buffed, this was because the Boots +0.1 was faster than Exhibitionists exposed lower speed bonus of +0.06, now it's only +0.01.

I think the survival armor pieces being changed to have the +0.02, +0.01, +0.01, +0.01 SPD stats would be a good proper change.

Not a Slave Trader84 days ago (2 edits)

"I think the survival armor pieces being changed to have the +0.02, +0.01, +0.01, +0.01 SPD stats would be a good proper change"

So... you just decided to turn off Naked Speed -0.10 debuf when you wear some armor part (Mid, Mid Ext, Bot) to this full Sur Set and change stats like +0.02, +0.01, +0.01, +0,01 SDP because in this way will be again 4.35 SPD therefore this don't breaks the logic of the description and balance of the game?

ZamBillard84 days ago

For the most part yeah.

Also I realized now that "Naked Lona" is supposed to be a "Bonus". I've been glossing over that fact and just considering Naked Lona to be the starting point, base/default; no stats, traits, armor, any boosts at all. So to me 4.3 was her default move speed not necessarily a Bonus of not wearing anything. So my thought process toward all this speed stuff was for example:

Adventure Lona(Slowest)

Each armor gives -0.1. Full armor puts her speed at 4.0. (4.3-0.1-0.1-0.1=4.0)

Naked Lona(Base)

Simply 4.3 speed.

Survival Lona(Fast)

The original armor was Top (+0.05), Mid (-0.05), Bot (+0.1), MidExt (+0.05, -0.1). Full armor puts her speed at 4.35. (4.3+0.05-0.05+0.1+0.05-0.1=4.35)

My current changed armor is Top +0.02, Mid +0.01, Bot +0.01, MidExt +0.01. Full armor puts her speed at 4.35. (4.3+0.02+0.01+0.01+0.01)

Exhibitionist Lona(Fastest)

+0.04 for uncovered chest, +0.03 per groin and butt. (4.3+0.04+0.03+0.03=4.4)

So in this case this would be the order of these armors/traits in slowest to fastest. However if you take the Survival Armor piece by piece you see the issue I was bothered by and what I was trying to fix.

Survival Lona

Top Only

(4.3+0.05=4.35) "Increases speed, so far the best single part of the armor"

Mid Only

(4.3-0.05=4.25) "Decreases speed, faster than an armor that has -0.1 but still slower than Naked Lona. This piece follows the armor makes Lona slower expectation, but stat wise it makes her slower than just not even wearing it which seems bad. Essentially a worse Top."

Bot Only

(4.3+0.1=4.4) "Increases speed and is equal to a Naked Lona with Exhibitionist trait, this on its own might be too strong as is, also when combined with Exhibitionist the Survival Bottom's +0.1 is faster than wearing no Bottom +0.06, so you'd go up to 4.44 plus you get all the benefits of armor like DEF"

MidExt Only

(4.3+0.05-0.1=4.25) "Decreases speed, practically the same issue as Mid Only, why wear it alone if it makes you slower and has lower stats than say the Top; the only difference is an unnecessary second speed stat in the json file."

Anything that causes Lona's speed to be anything less than 4.3 would not be considered "Increases speed", so for example the idea of making the armor less "constraining" giving all the armor pieces -0.05 rather than -0.1 like other armors would follow a "faster" sense compared to other armors but still isn't "Increases SPD" because the armor puts her speed below 4.3. I was also trying to figure some way to work with this without going above the 4.4 mark since that would tread into the Exhibitionist trait's speed(and 4.44 if you wore the Boots with it, which is why I nerfed them).

This is why I tried the Top +0.02, Mid +0.01, Bot +0.01, MidExt +0.01 idea. This fixes the issue of certain parts of the Survival set slowing her down so now the stats match the description again and the Bottom being too strong on its own. The only oddities is it being faster than Naked Lona, which is why I didn't boost the speed any higher than it made her before my changes, and the fact it's leather and somehow "lighter/faster" than say the Adventure armor.

itch.io

LonaRPG

Survival Set Abnormalities?