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"Ruthless" judgment too soon.

A topic by dergdergdergderg created 14 days ago Views: 200 Replies: 4
Viewing posts 1 to 4

I can only put one tag on this, but wanted to put "spoilers" as well, and maybe even "bug report".  

I'm on my third playthrough, exploring the various backgrounds/guests.  My first two playthroughs I was kind.  This time I decided to go for a "neutral" route, so I sent Asterion out to the valley once at the very beginning, and then was as kind to him as I could be after that.  

Then a "ruthless" chapter started, and (after an apparent one-week time skip) Luke and Kota were talking about how the MC had sent Asterion out to the valley "again", and was generally abusive, etc.  Excuse me?  No, that didn't happen.  

From what I can tell, I got the ruthless route due to giving a "bad" response when Argos asks why the MC sent Asterion out.  But I don't think the answer to that question (except for maybe the "I am a sadist" option) should be taken _by the game_ as the MC's true motivations.  Given what the MC knows about Argos at this point, it's reasonable to give an answer that the MC thinks Argos would accept, rather than a fully truthful one.  

So I do think it's a borderline narrative bug.  I sent Asterion out *once*, before either Luke or Kota arrived, and intended to never send him out again.  But because I tried to deceive a deceiver, suddenly the game ignored all of my actions toward Asterion since then, and skipped ahead to a time where I had sent him out multiple times in Luke and Kota's presence.  

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not a bug, you send him once to the valley, you get in the ruthless route. i presume luke and kota are talking about something that happens in between scenes that we don't actually see. imagine there was a week or two time jump when the ruthless chapter 1 kicks in, by then the mc has gone nuts and i don't believe he can be read as a self insert for the player anymore. argos is the new mc for that route.

there is no neutral route currently. i think it's still planned so that you will be able to play the story without having to date asterion, but that concept was dropped for now. 

> not a bug, you send him once to the valley, you get in the ruthless route.

That's simply not true; I just went back and verified that you do NOT get the one-week time skip into the "Ruthless" chapter if you send him out once, are generally nice, and answer Argos using one of the first two options ("I didn't mean to hurt him" or "I didn't think I had a choice").  

> there is no neutral route currently

I don't know how well-developed the route is, but there's at least one conversation that's different from the "good" route when you hand him the bottle of wine (haven't played beyond that).  

you send him once in the valley, you are rail roaded to the ruthless route. i don't know what you think is "not true", the ruthless route doesn't start then and there, that's not what i said. but when it's time for the route split, you will be sent down the ruthless route. the time jump i refered to is just how i interpreted the 1st ruthless chapter, seeing as it felt like mc was being abusive for way longer than we see play out.

there were implications of a neutral route but with build 0.5 when the split was first implemented, it simply wasn't there. if you were on the neutral route you would be switched around to the good one. a difference of dialogue is not an indication of a different route. there'd be inumerable routes if we considered each slight variation, and that's simply not useful.

you send him once in the valley, you are rail roaded to the ruthless route. i don't know what you think is "not true", the ruthless route doesn't start then and there, that's not what i said. but when it's time for the route split, you will be sent down the ruthless route.

At what point?  I'm still playing through, but I am skeptical that I will be railroaded into the ruthless route at this point, given that I've put on the ring.  Regardless, it didn't jump to the "Ruthless" chapter at the same point it did if I gave a different answer to Argos, which indicates my original point:  if you give one answer to Argos, then at the end of Chapter 12 you get an abbreviated/summarized concert scene followed by the timeskip to "Ruthless".  If you give another, you still see Asterion brood for a while, but you then get a full concert scene (without hug), and move on to chapter 13 where you put on the rings.  

the time jump i refered to is just how i interpreted the 1st ruthless chapter, seeing as it felt like mc was being abusive for way longer than we see play out.

In the case where you *do* jump to Ruthless at the end of Chapter 12, there's not too much "interpretation" necessary--the text suggests pretty strongly that there's been a timeskip of approximately a week.

there were implications of a neutral route but with build 0.5 when the split was first implemented, it simply wasn't there. if you were on the neutral route you would be switched around to the good one. a difference of dialogue is not an indication of a different route. there'd be inumerable routes if we considered each slight variation, and that's simply not useful.

OK, then consider this rephrasing that doesn't say anything about "routes":  After sending Asterion out once, if you answer Argos one way in Chapter 12, then at the end of that chapter, you go to the chapter entitled "Ruthless I", where it is stated that the Master continued sending him out to the valley in the week after the concert.  Whereas if you answer a different way, you continue on into Chapter 13, where the Master takes an oath that (not technically, but in practical terms) prevents him from sending Asterion out ever again.  This is a marked difference in how the game progresses, and is only dependent on how you answer Argos, which I argue should not be taken as a true indication of the MC's intent.