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Tales of Androgyny

A game about birds, bees, flowers and trees. · By Majalis

Combat is Interesting - Some Proposals

A topic by trapchan created Sep 23, 2017 Views: 1,531 Replies: 2
Viewing posts 1 to 3

First off, I'd like to say the combat system is actually pretty interesting and a step above most games.  However I do notice a general complaint about how people are getting their asses handed to them and "combat needs a complete overhaul (because I don't know what I'm doing)" from various places this game is a topic of.  So I'm putting forth a few proposals I think would greatly help with acclimating new players, but please don't take this as any type of patronizing as these are just some observations I've made based on personal preference.


1. Give a baseline stance and 1 or two baseline abilities, unlock more stances and abilities on level up or meeting requirements - This would fix a lot of possible decision making issues with confused players not really understanding what the difference between doing slide or a low attack from balanced stance would be.  Currently the game is kind of like starting a metroid game and handed all the abilities, it's just too much to take in for people who haven't bothered trying to figure out the game.


2. Have an on hover effect for combat abilities, give flashing indicator on how each ability would impact the enemy's status bars - Similar to how the XCom series shows potential life bar change before taking a shot.  It's a layer of transparency that would be nice for decision making.  Furthermore this also helps tremendously with new player decision making outside of trial and error, and encourages specific playstyles to aim for.


Next part if the minor stuff I personally took some notes of, but this will most likely get ironed out in later editions.

Knockdowns are too powerful - Currently knockdowns are too easy to achieve and lead to instantly winning almost any encounter. This will most likely be fixed in the future, but it's worth mentioning.


Magic is too cumbersome to use - I understand you're going for an Etrian Odyssey samurai stance style with magic combat, however the outcome is generally underwhelming for expending two turns to perform a single action.  Possibly include some casting stance transition options similar to how other stances are used?


Please do not include unforecasted one shot attacks in a turn based game - Unless I'm mistaking something, it's almost impossible to escape the Ogre grab if he hits you with it.  Please do not include attacks like this in the game as it's extremely unfun to lose out of nowhere.


Vault finishing attack conditional is too difficult to use - the conditional being vault over and slam down on a grounded opponent.  However in almost every circumstance the turn used while vaulting, the opponent will always stand to avoid the bonus damage.  Maybe include an option to make vaulting on top of an already knocked down opponent perform the finisher?


Overall the combat is quite fun and a good change of pace from any of the other lewd games I've played.  I really applaud the effort to include an actual fun system not based on powergaming with numbers, which seems to be the norm but really feels antifun after being done so many times.

Developer

Hey there!

Thanks, this is helpful to hear.   I'll address point by point, but first, I'll preface by saying that almost nothing in the combat system is final - however mature it currently appears, each and every existing technique is effectively a placeholder.  So that'll be a recurring theme in the responses, and I'll give some insight about the design along the way.

Stances: This was the original plan - there are effectively three types of stances, BasicAdvanced, and Other.  Basic are the three stances that all characters start with that has the bulk of their combat repertoire, Defensive, Balanced, and Offensive.  Advanced are the six stances that are similarly combat focused, 3 of which are typically accessed from Defensive (of which only Counter is in the game currently) and 3 of which are typically accessed from Offensive (of which only Blitz is currently in the game).  As can be gleaned from Counter and Blitz currently being unlockables, these stances would be unlockable, and not a part of the base toolset - this is for exactly the reason you described, to wean players into the options they have.  We'll definitely pare down the techniques available in the Basic stances to start with when we have some more of the puzzle pieces in place, and let players slowly accumulate options across a playthrough, unless they choose, say, Thief or Ranger, which would start with more techniques.  We might even have a "learning curve" of beginner, intermediate, and advanced, associated with each class.

 Battle UI:  This is dependent on some other UI overhauls that we have for the battle interface - in particular, putting more focus on displaying event changes (like damage or armor destruction) on the UI instead of burying it in the combat log.  Eventually, the textual combat log that no one wants to read (outside of, say, enemy dialogue and flavor descriptions) will have considerably less focus.  We have some of this already in that, say, the buttons turn yellow or red when it might make your character trip or collapse, but we don't yet have a way to convey to the player why sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't result in you ending up on the ground (those always being that the enemy gets a say in whether you get knocked to ground as well!)  I think showing a flashing portion of the healthbar, or even a straight damage prediction in a easy-to-grasp place (rather than in in the hover dialogue itself in mass of descriptive text) is a great idea.

Knockdown:  There are definitely multiple ways to completely devastate an opponent currently, forcing knockdown and trip being two of them.  Like you've pointed out, this will come out in the wash - currently, things like blocking, parrying, and effects like tripping are all or nothing - you either get them or you don't.  So if you get them, you effectively automatically get them, making them very powerful and effective.  Knockdown is more of a numbers game, so that might just need to be tweaked downwards, but as balance recovery maneuvers and effects come into play, there's also a counterweight there as well.

Magic:  Magic will actually become more cumbersome as there are actually several casting stances.   It will also become less cumbersome as, indeed, you're able to chain spells together by using spells that don't bring you out of a casting stance, and instead might move you into different casting stances. Currently, the magic spells are boring magic dart, snooze heal, and ok.jpg buff strength.  We need to develop more interesting effects, and address overrall game balance, before magic really pops.  Even something as straightforward as being able to spend two or three turns in exchange for blowing up a large fraction of your enemy's health will contribute towards making magic stand out - much less more interesting effects like mind control, flight, intangibility, invisibility, summon oil, Bigby's Spanking Hand, or Magic Erection.  We haven't really gotten to magic yet, since there's a few stats that we're working on individualizing first.

Unforecasted BS:   Yep, our general design philosophy is that unavoidable, unpredictable outcomes suck.  There's currently very little RNG in, say, combat, for exactly that reason - we only want to sprinkle in RNG where we're certain there's an aspect of fairness around it (this is why, in the knockdown point, things like parry or riposte are all-or-nothing in the current state).  You may end up in an unwinnable battle, or in a place where there is no choice to be had in the matter - for instance, the combat rounds after a large werewolf has knotted you aren't necessarily an opportunity for player input - but you'll have gotten there through clear and unambiguous choices.  The Ogre will eventually be an enemy that is effectively impossible to beat in a straightforward way for a novice character, so he's a good example.  You may need to use disabling techniques, spells, or items to defeat him before he simply overpowers you.  That overpowering may not be in the form of a one-shot technique, though.  Eventually, you will be able to break out of the Ogre's grab by hook or by crook, but it's entirely possible your character will be unable to (too weak to struggle out, too unskilled and unlubed to slip away, no items to get you out of a pinch, etc).  Of course, this is roughly equivalent to your character with 5 HP remaining being unable to escape from the 5 points of damage an enemy inflicts - if you're in that scenario, you've made some choices to get you there.

Vault Attack and the nature of Multiple Turns:  One of the changes that will be seen as the game continues to develop is that getting up from being knocked down will depend on a few factors, and enemies will NOT always be able to immediately stand up without first catching their breath, or slowly rising to their feet.  The other aspect to this is that there will be opportunities to set up combos that take multiple turns like this - for instance casting a stun spell on an enemy that will make them fall over after a turn of paralysis if they were at low balance, and then vaulting at them to capitalize on it.  As more techniques become available to the player (and the enemies!) there will be more opportunities to control combat that will vary depending on the capabilities of your character, primarily their stats, which already have a fairly large impact on available combat styles.

So, yeah, there's a lot more currently being worked on under the hood - and we're glad to hear people appreciate the work we're putting into the combat.  It's all still, in large part, to serve the sexy outcomes that will happen as a result of interacting with strange monstrous creatures with dongs, but we're hoping it won't be a slog, or a confusing mess, or broken.  We've put a lot of thought into how to make it fun and playable, and the idea is that it will get more complex before it gets less complex - as the pieces fit together neatly, and as players are given more obvious feedback (and forewarning) of what impact their decisions have and what can and will happen.

tl;dr - Thanks for the feedback; it's really helpful to hear, these are some good suggestions that will help us as we continue to build out the design, and the full depth and breadth of the combat has much to come.  :D

Right, thanks for actively communicating plans as well.  I think the game has a lot of potential, and has the important replayability aspect almost every other lewd game is missing.  It also helps the distribution between gameplay and sexy content is nicely partitioned, and neither crosses into eyerolly sexfight territory or pointless gatekeeping cockblock territory.