Anyone have optimal skill progression for the various classes?

A topic by Nimbustoad created Dec 27, 2023 Views: 1,689 Replies: 18

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I have been kind of in the dark about which skills are worthwhile and have stumbled my way through. I would be interested in what people think is the optimal skill progression for their favourite class.

I am also finding that some skills way out of whack in terms of power level, even at the same level of skill. For example, I don’t think that the flaming battle ball is anywhere near freeze and dominate - I’ve found that my successful caster runs are ones where I can pick up those two skills from a tome or librarian.

Random595139 days ago (2 edits) (+1)

Freeze and dominate are game breakingly OP, flaming battle sphere is trash. The optimal talent path can change depending on what you find in terms of equipment or other talents, but here is what I think is best from base talents.

Ranger: Perfect Aim, Tunnel Shot, Perfect Aim 2. Storm shot next as soon as dex allows. (Perfect Aim 2 and Tunnel Shot can be swapped as preferred)

Rogue: Bear Trap, Sleep Bomb 2. Bear Trap 2 asap. Shadow Step.

Warrior: Power Strike, Shields Up 2, Shield Block, Recovery, Shield Block 2, Recovery 2. (Shield block and recovery order can be swapped depending on preference)

Duelist: Disengage 2, Lunge 1/2, Dash Attack.

Barbarian: Cyclone Strike. (Next: Charge 2, WM 1/2, whatever order you prefer)

Fire Mage: Mental Clarity 1/2, Burst of Flame, Flame Portal, Burst of Flame 2.

Storm Mage: Lightning Bolt 2, Mental Clarity 1/2, Shroud of Wind 1/2. Burst of wind is good for utility.

Ice Mage: Shield of Ice. After that, whatever you want, it's almost all great. You can play freezing cloud for the range, cone of cold 2 is crazy, and freeze is absolutely OP. I think freeze 2 is a waste, just get 14 int then stack dex for SP. Pick up a physical dmg weapon for crits on frozen enemies, gg.

Necromancer: Mental Clarity, Posion Cloud, Mental Clarity 2, Summon Skeleton, Posion Cloud 2. Pick up an alternate dmg spell/staff for enemy skeletons and poison yendor (I like Lightning Bolt, or if I have to shock). Aura of death is trash. Rush Summon Skelly Asap.

Enchanter: Discord 2. The rest depends on 2nd zone and if you get extra int. Get dominate ASAP. If I am feeling unsafe early I take Mirror Image (Amnesia it later). If not, just stack mental clarity and maybe take confuse for utility while waiting for the int.

It's important to hold talent points on mages for lvl 9 if you get no extra int, or lvl 6 if you get an extra int.

TheAtiumMind139 days ago(+2)

This is a really well thought out, but I have a couple of suggestions:

1: shroud of wind 2 before mental clarity. Levitation and reflection are two of the most powerful effects in the game.

2: duelist lunge 2 ASAP. if you have to pass up disengage 2 that's fine. Disengage is not half as useful as being able to functionally 1 shot an entire swarm at 0 cost. also strafe attack is definitely worth it lvl 1 or 2 but at least get it.

3: Why discord 2? it's less then a 50% power increase. I would go for something else but if i'm being narrow minded here, let me know.

I think that's about it! Thanks Random595 for another great resource.

Random595138 days ago

1. I usually take mental clarity first, as I find levitation and reflection is not required early on. I am not taking ranged damage (LB 2 outranges everything), jumping in pits, or needing to avoid terrain (just don't stand on the water, it's easy :P). As long as I have enough MP to LB everything, nothing else matters. I almost put it as take mental clarity 1/2 first, then take shroud, as I do think its stronger that way.

2. Disengage 2/Lunge 1 take 12 dex. Lunge 2 takes 14 dex. Even if you get 1 additional dex, the earliest you can get Lunge 2 is lvl 6. No extra attributes and it is lvl 9. What will you do with the talent points before that? Take disengage 2 at lvl 3, then lunge 1 at lvl 4. This won't delay lunge 2 at all.

The difference between having disengage 2 or not early game is massive. The game plays so much faster when you are keeping your SP on every kill. Disengage 2 is also the safer option, if you get in a dangerous situation, being able to disengage and step back, keeping pace with fast enemies and getting the maximum amount of SP is what you want.

I left the duelist talents early, as I don't use strafe attack enough to know exactly where it fits. I probably could have said: Disengage 2, Lunge 1/2, Dash Attack.

3. I find discord 2 is a massive upgrade. It is a 33% dmg increase, per attack, which by itself is strong. It also has very positive interaction changes, like reducing the number of hits most early backline enemies need to die by 1 (saving you both a turn, and from being damaged at all in many situations). What else can an enchanter take early?

TheAtiumMind136 days ago

I always prefer to take confusion over discord II. I just love being able to turn a group against each other. Plus distracting the boss is invaluable. As to lunge, I tend to take lunge 1 over disengage 2 these days if idon't take that I take strafe attack, because strafe 2 + bow. When disengage 2 got a damage nerf, it lost priority on my list although youmake some fairly convincing points so Ill look into it on my next duelist run. Oh, and shroud of wind is definitely still OP early game. The upper dungeon has some of the most pits out of the mainstream dungeons and the rails across give a whole new meaning to the word kiting. Meanwhile, the only things even capable of hitting you, being ranged, are hitting themselves instead of you. On such levels I rarely even need lightning bolt (except to take out supporters outside my rage). Unfortunately Idon't have the time to write an opinion piece on shroud of wind so for now I'll just wish you a happy new year!

Random595136 days ago

I find confusion just doesn't do enough at lvl 1 for 6mp, compared to what you can get for 4mp. It feels like a waste of mp whenever I try. The only boss you can't kite from easily, the archer, dies so fast to discord 2.

We will just have to disagree on shroud of wind, imo it doesn't give much value early game compared to more LB2 killing everything.

Happy new year to you as well :)

TheAtiumMind127 days ago

recently encountered Argyl the swift as enchanter, you're right.

TheAtiumMind129 days ago

Looked into it, I should stop taking lunge 1 early game. But strafe attack is better then disengage 2.

Random595129 days ago

Strafe attack 1 vs disengage 2? How?

TheAtiumMind128 days ago

With limited SP points early game disengage will not be used as often as strafe attack which could activate every turn. it also makes those annoying little ranged units a lot more manageable.

Random595128 days ago

I would never even think of taking strafe attack until after disengage 2, lunge 2, and dash attack. Disengage 2 is way, way more powerful then strafe attack, and every other ability gives a lot more value as well.

TheAtiumMind128 days ago

Um, have you seen strafe attack 2 + bow?

TheAtiumMind128 days ago (1 edit)

It's basically time stop. And while the duelist has much better options upon being close enough to melee, a good ranged wepon can sometimes see them dead before you even get there.

Random595128 days ago

Strafe 2 would come a long time after disengage 2, so taking strafe 1 instead of disengage 2 doesn't make sense. Strafe lets you attack more, but gets much less value out of each speed point. Combining lunge and disengage lets you kill far more stuff, with 3+ actions per turn, often keeping multiple speed points. I value dash attack more then strafe as it provides additional gap close and utility (ability to move through enemies). Even against Yendor I find I often prefer to chain disengage, lunge, dash attack, knockback (charge, power strike, cyclone strike), lunge, disengage, compared to just spending all the speed points on basic attacks with strafe.

TheAtiumMind127 days ago (1 edit)

I agree with you late game, but strafe attack is an invaluable asset to an early game duelist who can't afford to use their other (admittedly very powerful) abilities often. strafe attack allows one to stay mobile while continuing to doll out modest damage (+ you get that sweet strafe dodge) . While I agree that dash attack is much better, strafe attack has some good distance applications as well. I'll admit that strafe attack pales in comparison to many late game tactics available it is usually enough to trivialize most upper dungeon encounters (assuming that you have a bow otherwise it just makes melee more interesting).

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Nimbustoad138 days ago (1 edit)

Thanks! Yes, it does seem that some of the skills need to be boosted, and others pulled back. I did a successful fire mage run today and, again, was able to coast to victory on Dominate and Freeze.

For Dominate, I could see having a duration as a way to bring it back into balance. Possibly it could have a maximum number of hitpoints which can be controlled at one time (currently, it makes encounters with big, scary high-HP monsters semi-trivial).

For Freeze, possibly frozen enemies could be immune or resistant to damage. Logically, I don't know whether it makes more sense to take more, less, or the same when encased in a block of ice. From what I can tell, it's main usage is easily killing single target enemies, not freezing them in place for any other tactical reason.

Alternately, one could boost the damage output of Tornado, Fire Sphere, etc.

Another issue is that STR and DEX classes don't have extremely powerful skills to cross-class into. Maybe Strafe Attack and Bear Trap would count?

Random595138 days ago(+2)

About strength and dex cross-classing - I find they benefit the most from picking up other class skills. Unlike a mage, where having more spells only increases versatility, more CD talents is a multiplication of the dmg output. Warrior/Barb absolutely love to get the active talents from each other. If you get shields up, power strike, cyclone strike and charge you can keep cycling them for huge damage output. Take a few duelist talents as well, always strong! Rogue/Ranger abilities also complement each other perfectly and are a massive power multiplier. Perfect aim, power shot, bear trap, sleep bomb? The things you can do with those are downright unfair to the enemies haha.

Freeze/dominate are just broken, don't compare anything to that xD

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Anyone have optimal skill progression for the various classes?