Post by Rickalick87 in Polar Night comments

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Rickalick87146 days ago (2 edits) (+4)(-32)

It's a slog to get through the absolute abundance of details this VN throws at you. It's walls and walls of text of irrelevant things, like what coffee each person in the room ordered, their clothes, every single change of expression, every single thought the MC has on EVERYTHING... It's just too detailed. The author obviously wanted to write a book, not a VN.

Also all characters are incredibly flat. If someone has a habit of saying "dude" - he will say it every single time he is talking to someone. If someone is secretive - he will be secretive about absolutely anything and everything, in the most blatant way possible.

Fake choices aren't helping keep my interest either. What's the point of even giving choices when the player MUST go through all of them? Just play out the scenes one by one and don't waste my time!

And the few real choices don't feel like choices - the MC doesn't stand up to the challenge he just chose, he is just being a dead weight in every situation. It's not rewarding or interesting to be this person and his overwritten backstory is not making things better, it makes them worse.

The MC is NOT player incarnate, you are just with him for the ride and it's annoying as hell.

Fae_Astras146 days ago (2 edits) (+9)(-3)

Relax, the story is still early in development!

Jose Forest146 days ago(+13)

I don't agree with this, but I think it may be partly a matter of taste. The main character is more of an introvert and we see everything through his... eyes. He can pay attention to many details because it is his character. I also think that more detailed descriptions help you better imagine things in this world. Even if these are simple things that most of us do not pay much attention to on a daily basis. Of course, stories with too detailed descriptions can be boring, but in my opinion the descriptions here are okay.

Maybe it's a matter of taste, I don't know. I've seen a few visual novels that were poorly written and for me the level here is decent. The action itself is a bit limited because everything is happening on a ship in a closed space and everything is only gradually starting to reveal itself. That's why the atmosphere here and the tension must be built slowly.

Rickalick87145 days ago(+3)(-10)

You know, maybe there is something to your point. I have read a bit too many books lately and played a bit too many VNs.

Maybe I'm just getting spoiled by the good ones and too tired of the same mistakes the bad ones make to appreciate an average work that's just fine.

Sangie73 days ago(+2)(-1)

Check out https://aucyonproject.itch.io/echoes-from-valeth! Amazing story and no choices because the author focused on the story and the characters are complex and the art is great <3 I can't recommend it enough. It's also done!

Rickalick8773 days ago(-1)

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but I think I'll refrain myself from playing that VN. It doesn't seem like my kind of VN and I would neither enjoy it nor be able to say anything good about it afterward. So I better not.

KaiFoxeh66 days ago

Funny that I just finally got around to finishing the last update to EfV. Shi got my crying but in a happy good way.

Fae_Astras143 days ago

You have a very good point!

otterdom138 days ago(+2)

The main character has his own name, backstory, and distinct motivations. Whatever gave you the impression that he was ever meant to be the player incarnate? And why is it as a failing on the game's part that that's not the case?

Rickalick87138 days ago(+2)(-4)

I love it when people who missed the point of my comment get angry at me for supposedly missing the point. You're thinking about blank slate characters and that's not what I was talking about here at all.

Also, I think you are mistaking player incarnate and viewer incarnate, which are two completely different things from different types of media that serve different purposes.

In any interactive media, the protagonist is, by definition, player incarnate, literally - you are in control of the character.

And it's great that the protagonist of this VN has a backstory and his own character.

BUT

He is not accepting player's inputs. They are not his. He does not believe in the choices the player makes. He is half-assing the actions that are supposed to be made by his own choice. It undercuts the player agenda and the whole point of interactivity.

Because when you decide to do something - you don't maybe kinda try to do it, you just do it. But the protagonist of this VN doesn't freaking care about completing anything he supposedly decided to complete, unless he is actively being electrocuted. So your choices barely matter. And it sucks! And I'm annoyed that more people aren't annoyed at this.

I'm so tired of people praising mediocre VNs just because they have good furry art.

foxotcw132 days ago(+9)

Your second-to-last paragraph sums up your problem with PN. You can't stand Garret's character because he's a reluctant protag. That's fair enough, but it doesn't make PN a mediocre VN.

The MC makes it clear from the beginning that he doesn't want to be there, but feels he has to for his mom. He really, really hates confrontations but also wants to do the right thing. He's constantly conflicted and isn't enthusiastic about any of the choices he makes up to this point.

As you noted, the one exception is when he can fall back into his professional identity during the electrical crisis. Then he's calmly assertive and decisive.

Garret is a really well-written reluctant protag, and I enjoy tagging along with him and trying to figure him out, at most nudging the reluctant wolf one way or another. I understand not being able to stand this sort of character, but that doesn't make the VN mediocre.

Rickalick87132 days ago (1 edit) (+3)(-2)

Oh my, you're right! I thought about this for a couple of minutes and realized I do hate reluctant protagonists. Not just in VNs, but generally, in media - they turn any plot into a slog because they just won't do what needs to be done.

And it's especially hard on me with interactive media, as the reluctant protagonist makes it less interactive by their hesitation to do anything.

Nicely spotted, I should have realized this myself!

Though I still think it holds the VN back quite a bit and I'm confident it would have been better with a protagonist who isn't hoping to coast through the plot. Maybe he'll grow as a character later on, I guess we'll see :p

foxotcw132 days ago(+3)

I thought about this some more, since I think I normally wouldn't like reluctant protagonists either. I relate easily to Garret because I can see why he's so conflicted. He's torn between family duty to give his sick and not-entirely rational mother some peace, his own opinion that the expedition is pointless, and his justified hatred for his brother. He feels stuck in a job he doesn't want.

He's also a walking, furry, deadly weapon, and everyone knows it. Despite his timid nature, even much larger animals regard him as a physical equal and see him as the obvious go-to for the very confrontations he hates so much.

I think the author did an especially good job of using hints and cryptic flashbacks to show why Garret is the way he is. He's seething with repressed rage. He's visibly and lastingly maimed by the same person he's risking his life to follow, for the sake of what sounds like a dysfunctional family relationship. He's more scared of himself than anything.

This is a setup for a really intense character arc, so I think you still might want to keep an eye on the updates.

Distendo133 days ago(+2)(-1)

I've read through all your comments, and boy that's a lot of expectations you have, friend. Since you seem to be an expert on storytelling, perhaps you could proffer the struggling author some advice on writing believable flawed MCs?

Karras120 days ago (1 edit) (+5)

Hey! Sorry for how long it's taken for me to reply!

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the story, In some cases I think it's a matter of personal taste but in the case of choices, I have been working on making meaningful choices a core facet of the story, but I haven't yet had a chance to fill them out.

You are welcome to try future builds where I hope to flesh out these choices, but it might be some time before that happens, as I am focusing on writing a single storyline first!

Regardless, thanks for your feedback!