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Tales of Androgyny

A game about birds, bees, flowers and trees. · By Majalis

Combat Design

A topic by MysticExarch227 created Apr 22, 2022 Views: 1,729 Replies: 9
Viewing posts 1 to 3
(+1)

What's really preventing me from liking this game is the combat design. It's way too complicated for a turn based rpg. Especially one without animations that visually communicate what is happening. The text box doesn't really make up for this because it doesn't help the player understand why they are screwing up. Maybe I'm just missing something?

In story mode, the best luck I seemed to have was with guarding, advancing, and then taking a careful swing I think it was called. Anything else just resulted in me taking massive amounts of damage real fast so I kept doing that over and over again, but it didn't always seem to work. I didn't understand why it sometimes did and why it sometimes didn't either. Maybe it would help if there was more feedback, but I don't see why you wouldn't just go with the tried and true CRPG style where you just select different actions/skills/spells and that's it. I don't really want to micromanage the character's stance. Let the character do all that, not the player. The point of an RPG is to become someone you're not in real life. I am not a real life swordsman. 

And that's the other thing. If you play a magic user (which is compelled in story mode, I don't get this at all) half the time you're really not, you're going to be swinging your sword mostly. I went with a mage in sandbox as well and found that full incantation stance is a complete waste of time. Just for going into the stance uses a turn so the enemy immediately hits you. 

Its like certain builds are designed to be underpowered. I'm sure I could have figured out the correct ones or just forced my way though with sheer persistence but why I am even playing the game at that point if I can't be the character I want to?

And its a shame because the art is really sexy and the writing is very playful, humorous, and fun. But I don't enjoy playing these trap games where you're a pathetic loser who goes around getting beaten and raped all the time. I'd rather be a badass hero who still has tactically challenging fights but also live out my fantasies of being a cute trap. 

In the end, its possible that a masochistic experience is what the game is going for intentionally, but if so that's not my thing personally. 

(+1)

About Story mode, it should really be called a Hard Mode, as you should attempt it probably in the very end, after you get really good with the sandbox and figure out all the useful moves. It will punish you for every single mistake at some point. So, you have to consider basically every click you make, all the experience you gain, all the skills you learn.

About the main game, you're a bit mistaken. It's not a CRPG, it's rogue-lite, which means you will be losing. That's the way the genre works. For example, there are so called bonus points, which can make your life much easier, but you earn some of them by having Game Overs, and you get more of them when you play without saves, which means you are probably replaying them all over. And to know what skills will work you'll need experiments.

And in my opinion it works okay. Being defeated doesn't mean having a game over, it means getting an 18+ scene, so you're not wasting your time losing, you can kinda enjoy losing and getting used to the battle system.

Yeah, I agree that 90% of skills are worthless, and developers should consider taking out at least some of them, or making them like being extremely situational. But you absolutely can learn to make viable builds and defeat your opponents. You may check out wiki, Stats, Skills, Walkthrough pages, and anything else. Maybe it helps. Yes, the game has a pretty rough start, but that's what makes the adventure feel real for you. When you go around and pound their asses you know it's because you are better. And if you decide to go satisfy some enemies, you don't feel yourself a lazy whore. You could defeat them if you wanted, you just made a gift to them. That's much better than just having buttons to tap and mana to manage.

Ok yeah, I guess that pretty much confirms the game is not for me then. I don't see the point in artificially manufacturing an experience where its impossible to win on your first try even if you make reasonable choices. If I lose I want to feel like I deserved it because I was equipped with all the right tools to win but made a mistake anyway, not because the game dangled a cool roleplaying option in front of my face that I was excited to play only to find out it was intentionally designed to punish me for making the "wrong choice". That just seems masochistic. 

I disagree about having "buttons to tap and mana to manage". There are countless examples of games where the combat is still turn-based and tactical rather than twitch-based, but don't randomly punish the player for no reason. 

As far as realism goes, the character would not be adventuring anyway unless they got some basic training first, so I'm not sure I buy that argument.

I think the creator needs to make it more obvious on the tin what the gameplay experience is actually like.   

(-1)

Well, sorry, every classic RPG has 90% chance you'll make a bad build on your first try. Though most of them also give ypu nothing for getting a Game Over, this game gives you unique scenes.

And it's possible to download the game and finish it in one run. There even exist achievements that encourage you to never up your stats. But that is difficult for newbie. 

I personally could do that after spending about two month on learning all the combat stuff, but I had a lot of fun in the process, and keep getting half a year after being introduced to the game, so I don't really feel like blaming anyone who made it. The best porn game in my opinion.

(+2)(-1)

For me personally, the combat of ToA is it's primary draw, moreso than the content, even. I find that most turn-based RPGs are far to simple for my tastes, and so we can agree that the game's combat system has a far higher degree of complexity than most turn-based rpg combat systems.

There are several things I like about it:

  • Each stance keeps the number of options that you have moment-to-moment relatively limited, while at the same time allowing for a lot of different moves.
  • What is most effective in combat depends on how your character is built, which blends the JRPG style mechanics and the WRPG style mechanics seamlessly.
  • All 6 attributes are meaningfully baked into how the game is played, allowing you to have multiple unique playstyles & meaningful choice.
  • I actually find stance-driven combat to be more intuitive as a martial artist than non-stance-based combat systems. 
  • As a rouge-lite RPG, the game's difficulty actually feels fair to me-- fair the way that X-com's hardest difficulty mode is fair. I don't want or expect the game to be unfair in my favor. 
  • Each level up offers me a linear increase in my character's power-level, which I appreciate a lot. Each level requires the same amount of experience points as each previous level, which I also appreciate.
  • It feels meaningful to choose between saving up my points for more powerful abilities/upgrades and spending a lesser amount to broaden my horizons. 
  • The turn-based nature of the game allows me to go at my own pace with it, which I appreciate.
  • Furthermore, the turn-based nature of the combat system means that Hiro's skill-level or ability to overcome challenges is based on how Hiro is built mechanically, rather than my technical skill as the player, which helps me immerse myself in the Role-Play.
  • I particularly like how the amount of strategic information that you, the player, have to work with depends on Hiro's perception level. (It's an intelligence/wisdom stat that actually makes the character feel intelligent/wise.)

Honestly, I'd really like to see a game like this but without it being NSFW just so I can share it with more people. 

Developer(+1)

It may not surprise you to learn that ToA came from re-using a previously designed (on paper) SFW turn-based RPG, and you've basically listed here a lot of the design goals. We may actually still make that SFW game at some point, as well. It had a greater focus on the multiple outcomes of combat (which would include things like combatants stopping the fight at first blood, or surrendering if certain conditions were met like being disarmed), the stance based combat, and actions interacting on an instantaneous basis (stuff like ducking under the harpy's aerial attacks - with basic cuts and crosses being parried, as in real fencing/dueling, or attacks that would dodge an opponent's attack conditionally), and use of items to cover gaps in ability, and in general on the quicker, rogue-lite experience, with a similar split between "story" mode and "adventure" mode, except that the latter wouldn't have nearly the amount of text that ToA does in its adventure mode.

We've also thought about creating a SFW version of ToA, since we could probably hire people who would be able to do that and not take away time from our other projects easily enough. It would involve simplifying a lot of encounters (or at least their scenes), obviously removing the sexual content in the process, and creating skins for the various characters that are work safe (which we may end up largely doing anyway).

(+1)

For what is worth I am against a SFW version of ToA, but I dig the combat system and would definitely be interested in a new SFW IP that uses it! But if I may be so presumptuous as giving you a suggestion,  keep working on this project until its completion before starting a new one - it's already awesome and with more efforts it will become the stuff of legends like CotC did!

Wow, that's exciting!! I'd like to be able to show my friends & acquaintances the game system but with a SFW version of it. My main question though-- how would you incorporate Charisma into the combat system without the use of NSFW elements. Would you be able to parley and stop combat that way?

Developer

Yep! That ties into the multiple combat outcomes - convincing someone to surrender, or to a ceasefire, or to run away. For the original game design, the setting was in the middle of a (losing) war, with the protagonist one of the survivors of a lost, decisive major battle trying to return home, and along the way she'd encounter other deserters, enemy soldiers, etc. so there's a lot of fighting people off not-to-the-death, talking people down even while fending them off. So persuading someone to surrender or to a ceasefire/truce would be one aspect, and then things like intimidation (a fear like status effect that would affect the opponent in various ways like existing status effects), taunting to make someone angry and more aggressive (so you can tire them out or set them up to be predictable for counter attacks), and theatric feints would also be ways Charisma helps with combat objectives.

Most of that would still work just fine in a SFW version of ToA. Charisma probably will tie into ToA as-is in some of those ways as well, similar to how Agility gives certain skills additional properties.

Cool!!! :O