Post by onehalfsaint in Beta 1.3.1 - The End of Act II comments

Beta 1.3.1 - The End of Act II » Comments

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Very impressed with the moral complexity / character development of Avaran vs Emperor in final dialogue with IF. It feels like a good way of signposting without saying outright that the protagonist has, in fact, learned an important lesson from the Lower Realm--not just about hierarchy and tyranny, but about reciprocal obligation (patronage) and discerning between wise and foolish second chances. Perhaps a stripping away of elements reveals the more naked exchange in the Empire behind cultivation? Or harkens back to the beginning of Act I with the slave villages? The ambiguity of it all works well for me.

If I had a complaint, it would be that IF in particular, and the Tyrants in general, feel a bit disconnected from their respective domains relative to the Emperor (consider: "The Emperor protects" as both propaganda statement and literal protection). This feels sharpest with IF in that unlike in the Common Ground, none of Stonewake's residents appear to know or reference IF, the Manyfold Hollow, etc. even though theoretically at least they are within its claim. Or is there an implication perhaps that the IF "faces" are actually people who gave themselves to the hivemind? Thus the dialogue at the end of Act II? Either way, IF seems plot relevant enough to flesh out earlier and moreso generally from my point of view.

Finally, I loved Common Ground but expected more changes with the "revisits" as the alarm increased. I did love the flavor text changing and found that a nice and humane touch about refugees and conscription etc.

Very excited for Act III! (I hope you see this, pal! Good work!)

onehalfsaint26 days ago(+1)

Also just donated (felt a little bad about lopsided crit maybe? Comes from a place of love.). Thank you--this is almost certainly my favorite idle game in years. :)

DoorWatchers26 days ago(+1)

Thank you very much for the donation. I nearly did a double take at my screen when I saw it. That was extraordinarily generous of you, and I really appreciate it.

Please don’t feel bad about the criticism being lopsided either. If something bothers you, I would much rather hear exactly why than have you soften it because you like the game. Feedback like your comment above is genuinely useful to me.

And thank you for saying that about the game. “Favorite idle game in years” is an incredible thing to read.

onehalfsaint26 days ago(+1)

Happy to be in a position to do it, and thank you for the typical grace with which you receive feedback. I've been watching your responses with people since just about 1.0.3 (maybe?) and the donation is as much for your spirit as for my enjoyment.

I spent a decade as an editor and tutor, so criticism is sort of my love language. I can tell a great deal of thought has gone into each bit of lore and each system (or should I say rebuild? ;) ) so I think we are probably kindred spirits there.

One thing: if you check my reddit username (same as here), you will see that I am sort of an idle games superfan--I've played almost every major title until the last year or so (due to steam nodelikes and my career picking up). I am also a bit of a tough customer. So at the risk of sounding full of myself, please take the remark seriously. For my money (hah), Cycle is the best thing to happen to this genre in years. (I would be happy to post a review on r/incremental_games upon full release.) You have created a real gem.

If you are ever interested in further feedback, please don't be a stranger (again, reddit, discord, etc.). I will try to be more forward in the future as well!

DoorWatchers26 days ago(+1)

Thank you. That actually gives me a lot more context for the way you’ve been reading the game. A decade as an editor and tutor, combined with having played that much of the genre, explains why your feedback tends to land on structure, characterization, and what the systems are actually communicating rather than just whether something felt good or bad.

That is exactly the kind of criticism I value. I’m very willing to rebuild something when the underlying logic isn’t working, so having someone point at the actual seam rather than simply saying “this part felt off” is enormously useful.

And I have to admit, “the best thing to happen to this genre in years” and “you have created a real game” are both going to stay with me for a while. Coming from someone with that much experience in the genre, I don’t take either lightly.

Please do keep being forward with the feedback. You don’t need to soften it for me. If something feels underdeveloped, disconnected, overexplained, mechanically strange, or simply not convincing, I would much rather hear it while I can still do something about it.

And to everyone else reading this, please keep telling me when something feels off too. It doesn’t matter how short or small the comment is. I read them, and I review my own work constantly. If nobody says anything, I may assume something is working when in reality I’ve written essentially the same line thirty times because coffee and eighteen hours of development in a row are not exactly ideal conditions for storyboarding.

I’m off social media entirely for the moment, but I am familiar with r/incremental_games. If I end up back on Reddit or Discord in the future, whether that’s to do a proper postmortem on Cycle or to start building a community around the full game I’m working on, I’ll make a point of reaching out.

I appreciate you the game this seriously.

DoorWatchers26 days ago(+1)

Thank you, this is exactly the kind of feedback I like getting because you’re digging into what the characters and systems are actually saying rather than just whether something felt good or bad.

I’m really glad the Avaran/Emperor distinction landed. A big part of what I wanted from the end of Act II was for the protagonist to come back having learned things from the Lower Realm without suddenly agreeing with the Lower Realm. Avaran and the Emperor can both be tyrants while still being very different kinds of tyrant, and IF complicates that even further.

Your point about IF and the other Tyrants feeling disconnected from their domains is a good one. The Emperor is much easier to read because his influence is everywhere in the Mortal Realm. With IF especially, there’s a gap between how important it eventually becomes and how much Stonewake/the Manyfold Hollow actually reflects its presence beforehand. Some of that ambiguity is intentional, particularly around what “faces” means and how IF relates to the people under it, but I think there’s room to make that relationship more legible earlier without spoiling what IF actually is.

The Common Ground revisit point is fair too. I wanted the changing refugee/conscription text to show that the situation was moving even when the basic structure remained familiar, but I can see how the alarm escalating creates an expectation that the place itself will change more dramatically on return.

This is extremely useful feedback. Thank you for taking the time to write all of it out, and I’m very glad you’re looking forward to Act III.

itch.io

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