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(1 edit) (+19)(-4)

I really like the aesthetic/setting of this game, it's something hard to come by these days. I don't think I'm going to get the full game though cause a lot of the character creation feels... really icky.

I've seen some people mention the star of David increasing Greed points thing, for one. Even if it's fixed, there's other areas I think should be looked at. I'm wondering how in the hell that made it in the first place? That's not a joke, it's a red flag.

Having physical character traits like noses, body types, etc. correspond to sins feels really off. Even hairstyles, like why do most of the black hairstyles have higher lust and sloth stats??? I understand items to an extent but some items have sin stats while others don't, it's just all over the place.

This game's queer inclusion feels surface level at best and mocking at worst. Why do the Gay and Bisexual traits both increase Lust? And being gay or bisexual stops a character from being asexual (or aroace, since this game conflates the two).

The gender selection with the statues only changes pronouns from what I can see, so I'm confused why the body types are split into feminine and masculine and being enby is a trait selection instead of just having it be in the statue menu as well.

I love horror and dark themes, but you can have that without wondering the dev is a bigot.

(+8)(-5)

I tried to share this bit of info in a Steam review for my friends as well as I agree with this to a degree. 

This had me wondering about the game itself when playing it. A counterpoint would be 'this is a character managing survival horror game that is also a Christo-fascist's wet dream about the rapture disguised as a Tomodachi Life clone' and ironically the 'sin' points actually make certain characters more productive for different tasks/roles in the colony/sanctuary. This still had me scratching my head at some choices as a bisexual woman myself that was formerly raised Catholic and who was a granddaughter of a preacher in Texas. I was probably involved in one of the few churches that truly preached love and acceptance with all people. [So this isn't me trying to defend this game, this is actually me really agreeing with you enough to reconsider my Steam purchase/download of the game.]

Something that STILL weirds me out about the game is that they happen to include Tarot Card readings as the extra sin/trait boosters. I actually want to know what made the devs decide on Tarot card readings as the indicator if one person is more introverted or extroverted and what extra sins they include or bring up. 

As someone that enjoys the actual gameplay loop in Sinner Salvation, this critique of the Character Maker system itself has me reconsider the purchase of the game itself. I'm no stranger to purchasing and consuming problematic content but I do genuinely wish the devs opened up about their true intentions with the game and what messages they're trying to convey. 

(+8)(-4)

After reading both of these posts, I do have some problems with your arguments with how it is "problematic." These come off as a call to boycott an early-access game by a preconceived bias of the developers. I personally find them to be hyperbolic and extremely misrepresentative of what the developers intended.

Please do not misinterpret my arguments, and instead try to act aggressive. I am here for a civil discussion about what you said and to reflect on what you both have wrote. I will not attack you as a person, nor your identity. I repeat, I am not here to fight, I am here to discuss.

Argument 1: Character Creation

I do agree that the Star of David increasing the greed sin is wrong, Though, it seems that its most recent update, Ruth 0.75.5, has removed the Star of David facial tattoo. Which is a good thing, and I'm thankful that the developers realised the issue.

Now, we will have the look at the larger picture corresponding to sins is part of the game. It is crucial to the character creation section of the game, and it does say it on the download page:

"What Sinner Maker adds to the experience are the 7 sins of Christianity, depending on your character's appearance they will have more or less sin points. For example, a fat sinner will likely have more gluttony, or a menacing one more wrath, experiment with all the available parts!"

Even though you can only change the Mii's body physique to some degree. You can make custom facial features or other elements without adding or removing any sins if you do not like the preset ones. Express yourself creatively!

With POC hairstyles increasing lust and sloth, most of them have the same increase as some other haircuts. I have tested and some POC hairstyles have the same sloth and lust increase (and decrease) as some other hairstyles. They change other sins like envy and pride to an excessive degree with some. Even the bald "haircut" has the same sloth increase as some POC hairstyles.

I do agree with some points about the non-binary (which I will say NB for brevity) trait, I wish they could work on it further due to some dialogue still using he/him or she/her pronouns for NB characters. Though, believing that NB people should be strictly androgynous, instead of them looking more feminine or masculine is not correct either. NB people come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, they can look more feminine or masculine depending on many factors. With the statues, they act more like what sex the character is if you select the NB trait.

To elaborate on my previous point, I was able to choose a feminine body type for a male character. So, you can have different body types to the character's gender.

With the sexuality part, I think it only applies to romantic relationships and not sexual relationships. Even though Miis can cheat, I doubt it includes anything sexual in this game. Also, they only make references to sex, not showing sex itself. So, the sexualities applies to the Mii's preferences of a partner, than actual sexuality.

Also, I understand the problem with the sexualities raising the lust sin. But, you can still have a straight Mii with traits that raise the lust sin as well.

Argument 2: Sinner Salvation

Calling this part of the game a quote "christo-fascist's wet dream" is distasteful. Not just distasteful, just disgusting. I tried to hold back my bias up until this point, but this was an incredible hyperbole that leaves me (and possibly a few other readers) baffled. Bringing politics into a game that does not show anything resembling alt-right values causes more harm than a warning.

This section of the game is about being a leader to a colony and protecting them from demons. The Miis have free will and free speech towards the player and others. When Miis refuse to work, it is most likely than not that they need food. Sure, you can be a bad person by forcing them, but you can feed them too.

Sin points helping towards work being done quick is intentional, and they do have breaks for communicating with each other. The player does not seem to be frightening nor imposing to most villagers, they do think positively of you.

Alright, I talked about this for long enough. Reply to this if you want to discuss further, Bye!

(+2)

I've read both the OP's points and yours and I gotta say that I agree on both. While some aspects of the game raises eyebrows, the game never really came off to me as anything sincere in nature and if anything, mocks Christianity in a way (especially when it comes to creating characters where being queer sometimes gets you labelled as "horrible" and a murderer being "redeemable" depending on how you made your character). Imo I think the game doesn't really take itself seriously at times, judging by most of the game's dialogue, especially trait descriptions. If the game is problematic as people say, it'll be quite obvious from the start.