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> Than why have that disclaimer if you're not worried about the wrong crowd using your games to get their rocks off?

Disclaimers are so that people who would have the mood ruined by this stuff, don't try to get their rocks off and then encounter something that ruins their mood.

Assuming they aren't underage (or in a mental state where playing this game can be psychologically damaging), if someone can get their rocks off to this game, then they are - by definition - not part of 'the wrong crowd'. If they are in a mental state where playing this game would be damaging to their mental health, then they should have paid attention to the warning.

> Even if the game isn't creating problimatic people and attitudes, it's still beyond insensitive and insulting to the trans experience, mine included.

This is why the disclaimer exists. If you find it insulting, you can simply not look at it.

> And if you value consent so much, why do you lust after forced stuff?

Have you ever encountered a mean person in real life, and really really wanted to just punch them in the face?

Have you ever played an action game where you had a character that could destroy swarms of enemies with magic powers or weapons of some sort?

Would you consider people who do play such games as 'lusting after violence'?

Fantasy is separate from reality. You can fantasize about punching mean morons, and about blasting hoards of demonic aliens with plasma guns, while also thinking that it would be horrible for people to be allowed to assault each other just for being mean (imagine if 'they were mean to me' could be said in court to have charges dropped against you; now imagine what people could do to you if they knew such a thing worked), and also thinking it would be horrible for alien demons to actually invade reality, and that such extreme weapons should not be created because realistically they'd be created to be used against other human people.

In a game, you can always stop playing if something happens you don't consent to. You consented to playing the game, because if you didn't then you would not be playing the game. If someone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to play the game, that is not the game's fault. That is the fault of the person holding a gun to your head to force you to play it.

> So apologies if I don't buy your "we're sorry you feel that way" and quite frankly, it's a bit insulting.

If you find that insulting, that says a lot more about you than it does about them.

> That's just sick in my opinion, we should all be in this together but your stance, let's be real here, is offputting to most non-cisgendered people, don't sugarcoat it.

Do you know what's sick? Trying to change art you don't like so that bigots who will hate the art no matter how it's changed will hate it slightly less, or have a slightly harder time using it as propaganda against LGBTQ+ people. In reality, they will treat anything with any relation to LGBTQ+ people as something to destroy.

It's sick because it acts like a sickness, a disease, within the community. It spreads a chilling effect, where people become afraid to express themselves freely. It encourages division within the community, and tears us apart from within.

We are all in this together, except for those of us who want to use our differences against us to divide us. Those that want to make us afraid to express our weird kinky selves, and instead feel compelled to look upstanding and non-problematic and thus marketable to a wider audience.

Such behavior does not make us stronger. It makes us weaker. It makes us more prone to being censored and marked as outcast freaks who shouldn't be allowed in the rest of society, because it drives us apart from each other.

We need to embrace our differences, celebrate them even, not try to stamp out anything that mainstream audiences would be uncomfortable with.

> One last question: when people not in this community see mediums like this, and look at the kinds of people into these kinds of games, don't you think they're going to think that this is all just a sexual fetishes and that trans people are all just weirdos and are "asking to get degraded?" Fuel to the fire as they say?

They already think this. They'd think this whether or not this game existed, or any other game like it. Hell, if we go back in time and we make it so that history is mostly the same, but somehow porn itself never existed and thus trans porn never existed, and trans people were exactly as SFW as cis people... Bigots against trans people would still think this about trans and non-binary people.

Sure, many of them will use games like this as 'proof' of their bullshit claims, but these games were never the reason why they believed such things to begin with. They found these games as a result of looking for evidence of their already-formed beliefs. If these games didn't exist, and porn didn't exist, and they had no proof? They would still believe what they do, and they would just find something else to use for 'proof'.

I already gave a more comprehensive example of this in one of my other replies to you.

> I eagerly await your response, if there is any.

They never needed to respond to you to begin with. They have no obligation to explain themselves to you.

In fact, the primary reason why I've responded to you, is that this is a topic that is dearly important to me. I'm actually pissed off at some of the replies you've gotten that claim there are 'more important issues in the world', when censorship of art is one of the most (though definitely not the most) important issues on the planet right now. I'd say it's definitely in the top 100 most horrific evils in modern times.

And you are perpetuating it. You are perpetuating horrific evil, and I happen to have a wide range of arguments against this particular form of evil.

There may be plenty of other commenters replying to you to defend this game, but you are one of the only ones who seems to be tirelessly replying to everyone. That puts them at a major disadvantage, but it also means that you put at least enough thought into your responses that you have to actually consider the arguments being made.

Even if your counter-arguments are often contradicting each other and it's very likely you are arguing in bad faith and have no intention of ever having your mind changed, your willingness to debate raises the chances that you are just severely misguided quite a bit.

So here I am, also willing to debate, despite how evil you appear to be to me.

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Firstly, disagree with all your points. Secondly, you're acting like I was rude. Hey, guess what, I wasn't, merely giving my opinion and than people got defensive over it despite "wanting the community to feel inclusive." So no, don't buy it. And quite with YOUR passive-aggressive tone, if you're not trans IMO your opinion is less valid when it comes to these subjects. Do NOT mansplain it to me.

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What do you mean by 'disagree with all your points'?

The very first point I bring up is that you misunderstood what the purpose of disclaimers are. The purpose of a disclaimer like that is very well understood and is not something to 'agree' or 'disagree' on, you either understand it or you don't.

If you think the disclaimer is for something else, you'll have to provide an analysis for why I'm wrong about its purpose. As an example template for such an analysis, I shall include one below for why I disagree with your definition.

Firstly, lets look at what the disclaimer can and can't do.

It can tell users what types of content are in the game, before they play the game. This gives users the chance to decide not to play the game, since they now know what sorts of content are in it. In this way, it gives players who play the game informed consent. That's about all it can actually do, though.

What it cannot do is prevent someone from playing the game. It also cannot hide what sort of content is in the game; it is explicitly designed to do the opposite, so that any types of content that someone might want to (or should) avoid are disclosed before they play it.

In short, it's incapable of filtering who plays the game, but it does make it possible for potential players to filter themselves.

So, lets look at the statement you made in your previous post:

> Than why have that disclaimer if you're not worried about the wrong crowd using your games to get their rocks off?

Lets say Shame Games did make the disclaimer because they were worried about the wrong crowd using their games to get their rocks off.

According to the premise of the statement, this group of people ('the wrong crowd') would apparently be able to 'get their rocks off' from the content of the game. If this were not the case, then there would be no worry.

So you are asserting that the purpose of the disclaimer is to prevent 'the wrong crowd' from 'getting their rocks off'. The only way that the game would help 'the wrong crowd' do this, is if 'the wrong crowd' played the game.

But we can already know for a fact that a disclaimer cannot prevent someone from playing the game, so that cannot be the purpose of the disclaimer.

Alternatively, perhaps 'get their rocks off' was a euphemism that actually means 'enjoy themselves' very loosely, and 'the wrong crowd' doesn't refer to players, but instead to people who want to spread hatred and bigotry against the LGBTQ+ community. In such a scenario, this 'wrong crowd' would 'enjoy themselves' by running a successful smear campaign against the LGBTQ+ community, in which they spread their hatred successfully.

While a bit of a stretch, that does seem to align with a few of the other things in your posts, so I figure I may as well address this possibility explicitly.

Under this scenario, your statement would be asserting that the purpose of the disclaimer is to prevent people bigoted against the LGBTQ+ community from using the game as ammunition against the LGBTQ+ community.

However, bigots will do whatever they can to run such smear campaigns, even claim that LGBTQ+ inclusive children's books that are 100% safe for work are literally porn being shown to children by force. That is not a hypothetical absurdist example either, that is something that has literally happened, with no exaggeration.

They will call things porn, even when they are not at all related to porn in any way, shape, or form. They will go to every possible length to label all porn as evil and to be abolished. They would do that with this game without even playing it, just looking at the name alone and labeling it obvious porn intended to brainwash people into becoming predators, even though the only true part of such a statement is that it's obvious porn.

It is not possible for a disclaimer to prevent or even diminish the impact of such bigots and their efforts to smear the entire LGBTQ+ community. And because it's not possible for a disclaimer to do that, it's impossible for that to be the purpose for such a disclaimer.

Now, it's also possible that you have meant some third way to interpret that particular sentence, but I cannot think of any other ways to interpret it. Feel free to respond with a clarification.

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"Under this scenario, your statement would be asserting that the purpose of the disclaimer is to prevent people bigoted against the LGBTQ+ community from using the game as ammunition against the LGBTQ+ community.

However, bigots will do whatever they can to run such smear campaigns, even claim that LGBTQ+ inclusive children's books that are 100% safe for work are literally porn being shown to children by force. That is not a hypothetical absurdist example either, that is something that has literally happened, with no exaggeration."

By that logic, than there would be no point to the disclaimers really if it doesn't actually stop bigots from playing the game, only for the creator, Aika, to not have a guilty conscious than. 

No, by that logic I prove that you do not know the purpose of the disclaimers. Just because you do not know the purpose does not mean there is no purpose.

In reality, the purpose is to warn people ahead of time what they might encounter in the game, and decide for themselves if they still want to play it.

For example, lets say that someone has actually been raped, and they are into kinky fantasy transformation scenarios as a way to reclaim their trauma for themselves.. But they still have PTSD from the idea of those transformation scenarios being forced on someone against their will. For them, if it's not consented to in-world, it can literally trigger a trauma-induced fight-or-flight panic mode.

The disclaimer is there to warn such people that such content is in the game. They can read the disclaimer, see that something in the game might trigger their PTSD, and decide not to play the game.

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Motherfucker trying to excuse trans getting raped IRL, get the fuck out of here.

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I would never excuse such a thing. Such things are horrific when they happen, especially because of the psychological impact that such things have.

That's why I exclusively focus on the preservation and creation of fictional content.

"Which is why it's SO HOT to imagine!" riiiiiight.

Firstly, I never said that. The word 'imagine' appears in my post twice, neither in such a context.

Secondly, I admit that does sound like the overall sort of thing I might have said at some point, so I'd like to emphasize the word 'imagine' for you.

Something can be hot to imagine, but horrifying and nauseating in real life. If you struggle to separate fiction and reality, such as by not being able to compartmentalize fictional sexual interests away from real life sexual interests, then you should not play games like Trap Quest. In fact, that's a sign that you should probably talk to a mental health professional.