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Neko Yuriko127 days ago(+1)

I do really like the design, the art, the sound, the story, all of that so so so much. But the final boss is downright unfair and stripped all the fun away the moment the fakeouts began. I want to beat the game but its been hours. Multiple successful passes to win is rough, and fakeouts during that is brutal. I was at 7 successive shots I think it was, on the third phase (too many) when I lost at one point. I have no idea what causes it to let a shot through or not, because I have gotten one (by accident) by accidentally hitting the button when it was on screen for less than a couple frames, and it just triggered a chain of shots instead of winning.

Everything else, the sprite work the poses the theming the shading is absolutely gorgeous! I do really like the game, but that boss needs an overhaul. Overall a wonderful job! Very nice! 

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aark_22127 days ago

Thank you for detailed and honest feedback, Neko! Shot doesn't go through sometimes because it's a draw or there is mechanic on one lvl  where series of bullets are deflected this way. We wanted to make it more obvious by showing that bullets colliding in the middle, but we run out of time. Also, the last boss supposed to be that hard and some people are beating it, I have no idea how , since I still can't beat it myself (•⌢• ). But our mistake was not to make the existense of easy mod more obvious.
That what I personally did when I started feeling frustration from last boss, just lowered a difficulty. I can imagine myself in your situation trying to finish the game, but not knowing you can set an easy mode in the options. I will add info about it in a game description at least, sorry about that!

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Neko Yuriko127 days ago (1 edit) (+1)

Its more an issue I think of difficulty spike. I beat every other character first try, without issue. But suddenly, this final character introduces a new mechanic that isn't fun and additionally has lofty expectations of players. That some people managed to beat it once (can they do so reliably?) does not change that the difficulty spike feels like a difficulty cliff, and is far too great. I would still say the same thing had I managed to beat her. An easy mode I was not aware of, and I will circle back and try it when I have time. Though I still advocate that if you can't beat your own game, it needs rebalanced. I do love it, and without the fakeouts I feel the difficulty would go back in line with the rest of the characters and have a natural progression. That way it doesn't go from training you to "hit it as fast as you can", to "hit it fast but also don't, but also do" so suddenly. That some people have beaten it, or the existence of an easy mode, does not warrant or justify its difficulty.

But don't get my detailed critique wrong, it is an amazing game concept and its going to go far. I do really enjoy it, and want to see it shine bright as it can. As somebody who is disabled (mute) I very very much love getting to see or play a mute character. The art is immaculate too! Sound design superb! I do believe that the boss is the only thing hurting the game right now, and deeply at that. My main suggestion is, if not remove the fakeouts, is to make the fakeouts come in a predictable pattern. Every 3 shots for example.

If you do want to make adjustments, as per jam rules "You should only make tweaks and bugfixes for problems that heavily impact your game's performance or playability" you can adjust the boss if you desire. As "heavily impacts your playability" is an understatement, and people have made adjustments for less.

(edit: Oh and I know that there is the draw mechanic, but on doki sometimes even though it is red, the sound played, and I reacted in time, the game tells me "whoops you fired early that's a strike!" and I am pretty sure that is a bug)

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Kitts127 days ago

I don't agree that "If you can't beat your own game, it needs rebalanced". I think as long as its technically possible, its fine. I like games that challenge people. However, that does not warrant insane difficulty spikes or challenges requiring perfect input with nearly inhuman precision.

I do agree that the difficulty spike in here is insane.

Originally there was also supposed to be Dad and he'd have a bark sprite when the fakeout would happen. However this wouldn't help either. The fakeouts do add an additional challenge that the player simply isn't prepared for and on top of that the even smaller reaction window essentially makes it either:

A) RNG battle, where you hope you don't get fakeouts and can use your focus fully on reacting as fast as possible

B) Focusing on both. This requires great reflexes + self control to not automatically shoot when a fakeout happens.

It's possible. Some of us did it. But going from shooting everyone first try to spending hours on the last boss is quite bullshit.

Making the reaction window smaller would make this work. As you mentioned, predictable fakeouts would make this work. Maybe other solutions are there too.

So yeah, you're right. To make the game better and more proper, this'd either need balancing or reworking.

But game being easy until you face Doki, then you get your ass kicked for hours sounds funnier xD

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Neko Yuriko127 days ago

My reason behind "if you can't beat your own game", is that a developer will have skill beyond that of average players. If they can't beat it, average players can't either, and they are the target audience. But if you have your heart set on the difficulty then by all means go for it. And I do hope this game goes far! It's really cool! Though, please refrain from calling a players hours of frustration funny, that is quite hurtful.

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aark_22126 days ago

If you try the easy mode I think it's  very well balanced, and the fake signal machanic there still feels challenging, but just enough to keep it fun, because it punishes hasty reaction, but leaves fair enough room to react for correct signal after.
What we should've done is to make an easy mode "normal" an set by default, and label "normal" one as hardcore. It wouldn't fix the issue with the sudden difficulty spike at the last boss, but at least player would have the right expectations and wouldn't get so surprised at the last level.
I'll talk with our programmers and mentioned about the possible bug you encountered.
Thanks again for a very detailed and informative comments! I definitely see that you are coming  with good intentions and wish the best for the game!

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Neko Yuriko125 days ago(+2)

Finally got the time to play on easy mode. I would say this is vastly more fair and in-line with the difficulty of the rest of normal mode. What I would have expected it to be like. I would make the game boot in easy (as the new normal) by default, yes. I think making normal into "hard" will absolutely temper the expectations of players that is a great idea! Right now the default difficulty feels like an EX boss. Haha!

I am happy to provide detailed feedback. I study game design and theory, and what's the point of studying if I don't share the knowledge? This game is one of the top ones in the jam I am sure of it. Not trying to critique to be mean, just want to share the understanding I have. I wish thee the greatest of luck in the jam!  ( I am still pleased to play a mute character. They may talk a little in the end that I didn't see before, but appreciation is still there! )

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aark_22125 days ago

I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and the fact you have played our game , even several times! Best of luck to you as well, Neko! And I'll definetly gonna check out your game!

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Kitts127 days ago (2 edits)

Bullet colliding isn't shown properly, yeah. Also the window for bullet collision is too big imo too. I had 6 successive shots, then got shot right after. Insane.  Yet to beat Doki.

But hey if you beat her on normal difficulty you get the bragging rights :)

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