Post by BeyondTheHidden in Manor comments

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BeyondTheHidden206 days ago (2 edits) (+1)

For me, it's few things. And take this with a grain of salt since I could very well be playing the game weird. Autism and all that.

One thing I think is a fun, but completely optional idea is more things for memory or perception manipulation. Maybe I just haven't been using it well, but it feels a little shallow right now. But only a little!

I've yet to experience the traitors or secret maids in the game since once the visitors actually figure out something is wrong, it feels like they really brute force the situation. Which I tern, gets either you or them walloped right away, leaving no room for strategy or deception. So maybe giving the visitors a chance to strategize, by barricading a room off, and giving us a prison for downed people would be fun. I also just don't know how to make deals with visitors since I only seen the option once with a hero during the final section, and I know how to make a secret maid but I didn't see much use for them.

The second would be combat, it's kinda... what's the best word... Simple? I don't know, it just feels like there's no depth to it if that makes any kind of sense. I know this isn't supposed to be a fighting game, and that's ok. I just feel like combat and the prospect of it is little more than an annoyance than anything else.

Now if you have any recommendations for things to try, please tell me. It's very possible and likely I'm missing something and just not playing the game to it's fullest. Oh, and one more thing. More outfits and customization would be splendid! I know that's kinda a nitpicky thing, but I love playing dress up with my metaphorical dolls in these cases. That's all I have to say, I really enjoy your games so far, but I will say there's a lot of things especially in your other game that just go way over my head. Even when reading through the tutorials, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

tirelesslurker205 days ago

Memory/perception manipulation: There's a couple of tools, but likely the only thing you haven't seen is stuff traitors/secret maids can do regarding painting other characters as traitors, and secret maids seeming (badly) to be someone else. Ah, just in case, a major one is targeted forgetting of knowledge and characters to keep visitors from going hostile. If you have any ideas for what might be fun, let me know - the system might suit them.

Visitor hostile stage: It is a bit brutal; it's the 'things have gone wrong' stage and combat is meant to be messy (and possibly hard) early. It's a little tangential to your ideas, but a possible future feature during beta is an 'orange' stage, in which visitors are aware but not yet actively hostile/fighting (roughly, they know things are wrong and that the maids aren't on their side, but they're not sure if the maids are actively working against them/how dangerous it is/etc. so they'll do things you'd rather they don't but won't be openly fighting).

Combat: It's intentionally simple and messy yeah. Apart from the very late stage where you do the ritual (which you should be well prepared before attempting heh heh) it's mostly intended that it's avoided and that characters are handled in other ways (including e.g. letting visitors leave if they don't know much yet, or teleporting the manor to avoid cops/champions). Combat is things going wrong. I'm open to ideas though - I just want to keep the overall feel where it is (risky and ideally avoided).

Outfits: Have you seen the gardener/librarian/chef/nurse ones? More may be added, though it'll probably be a poll feature. Oh, and the alternate maid outfits option and just in case, the maid upgrade forms.

BeyondTheHidden205 days ago(+1)

Fair enough, I'm just being nitpicky for the most part. I really do like these kinds of games. I will keep playing, experimenting and seeing what I can do. I really look forward to your future projects. And if any more ideas come to mind I'll mention them.

tirelesslurker204 days ago

Thanks for the feedback by the way. I like to hear thoughts and impressions of the game no matter what they are; it gives me a feel for how people are experiencing the game and what I should tweak and such.

BaseDeltaZero192 days ago(+1)

Combat against normal guests and cops has so far been extremely easy and effective. You just have such overwhelming force available, you can simply decide to ambush an enemy and they go down.

... yeah. Tested it against an early arrest squad. They didn't make it in the front door, got a single round of action. Zero resources expended, 3 (out of 10) incapacitations, +4 ex-cops.

On the one hand, I'm only in the midgame and am playing with the large manor, but it also reflects my experiences with the smaller manor. You have to be a *little* more careful but not much.

But like. After the first wave, the threats have been less 'threats' and more 'free resources'.

I'll see how far I can go.

BaseDeltaZero191 days ago(+1)

Update: Got a fair bit further, even fought some champions.

Higher threat forces put up a stronger fight - but that's just it, it's a *stronger* fight. I was able to defeat most threats - 12 cop squad, champion, 25 cop squad, 4 champion party. I suspect the 16 champions is way too much to deal with but anyone sane would have jumped by now.

In each case, it seems the correct answer to the problem is overwhelming force. More violence, more simply. Where I've made a tactical error it's in trying any plan other than 'get a big stack and throw it at them' (also, use tasers on the highest combat targets and then go down the list of best matchups).

Admittedly, I've got lucky and haven't had to fight a 20+ combat champion. Admittedly, I struggle to think of a way to deal with a hostile champion other than violence. Investigator, sure, but hostile out the door?

And if you're not actively trying to take the hardest fights, you can just... not. Champion detection resets on jump, I don't know if their 'aggro' also does, but it seems most likely. In this case, you can avoid taking any fights you don't need to, and in *that* case...

Yeah, sudden violence is just easier than doing anything else. There are other options, but they seem best used mainly to set up for the sudden violence.

I'm not sure how to... solve... this? On one level it makes sense. The simplicity of the combat system isn't a problem, necessarily, but it does get a bit frustrating that complexity is counterproductive.

tirelesslurker191 days ago

Thanks for the feedback :)

Things are kind of balanced on the easy side if you find a good approach currently; would some settings be helpful maybe? Perhaps that, some additional things to ramp the danger up, and a limit on teleporting away.

That's all difficulty stuff though. Combat wise, hm. An idea that comes to mind that's based on a feature I'd like to add (specifically possession/multiple souls in one body) is being able to use possession attempts to take some characters out of combat temporarily (or longer) as they're busy having a soul struggle instead; possibly other things like that. Perhaps fun but not an improvement, heh.

BaseDeltaZero190 days ago

Difficulty options rarely hurt.

In the general case I'm not sure how to 'fix' it. More/better nonviolent options to keep guests distracted longer? The possession mechanic sounds like it could be fun, it'd give something for succubi to do in combat (besides tasers I guess).

It might not provide a direct solution but some kind of 'permanent' escalation mechanic, where teleporting doesn't completely reset threats and they become better equipped as time goes on, all the way up to a 'you lose'. This threat could be mitigated by sending out traitors, perhaps. (Which, traitors are the hardest to get via 'just bushwhack them'). A long cooldown on the teleport or some other means of avoiding just Battlestar Galactica'ing all your problems, also good.

It's probably not in keeping with the 'tone' per se but if it was possible for characters to actually *die* in combat, that'd substantially incentivize avoiding it. Not only the risk of losing valuable characters in mass combat, but of accidentally killing the people you're trying to 'recruit'.

Perhaps adjusting the behavior of the beegirl hive could help as well. As is they're too easy a source of powerful fighters and contribution. Maybe make them more aggressive if they lose people and/or have a kind of internal economy where they need nectar to produce more beegirls. Presumably could be reset (at least partially) by teleporting.

I don't want to get too far into just making a 'wishlist' though.

tirelesslurker190 days ago

It's unlikely I'll add specific things, but it's good to hear thoughts. Riffing off the death stuff, accidental death (or severe injury) would be a reason to avoid combat - it could also lead to hostile ghosts/having dead bodies to revive or otherwise handle/etc. (also in line with the possession stuff, haha).

It's also interesting to hear about the beegirls, they're probably a good one for settings to increase the danger of.

There's a mechanic that might be good for combat overall that I've thought about which is room damage - I was initially thinking of it as a thing for champions to harm the manor with, but being a general side effect from combat might work well as well.

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