Post by the_dot_matrix in cohong jam comments

Spring Lisp Game Jam 2025 » Entries » cohong

Viewing post in cohong jam comments

Took me a while to figure out the controls and how to dock, despite the hints. Sold a bunch of porcelain back and forth between the close gray planets so I could upgrade everything. I wish there was more focus on exploration over trading goods, but that's just a preference.

The art style and music are awesome, and kept me engaged despite my frustration with learning how to fly. The gameplay is surprisingly complex yet cohesive for such a short jam.

My only gripe is the automatic zooming out to far away targets and lack of audio-visual changes. I gave up on manual flying when holding X felt much more responsive, even with the upgraded engine.

If you do have the time, I'd love to hear both of y'all's thoughts on tic80 vs pico8 for development. I've only used pico8 and wasn't much of a fan. tic80 seems like it could make progress for a short jam a more rewarding experience. Maybe something to try next time.

Like Reply

technomancy102 days ago(+1)

I wish there was more focus on exploration over trading goods

There is more to the game than just making money, but we didn’t get enough time to add enough hints to push you in the right direction. Hopefully that can be added after the jam.

The gameplay is surprisingly complex yet cohesive for such a short jam.

Thanks! That is probably because it is heavily inspired by the first game I ever made, which I worked on for four years: https://technomancy.itch.io/bussard =D

I’d love to hear both of y’all’s thoughts on tic80 vs pico8 for development

I also am not much of a fan of pico8, for a few different reasons, but the main one is that the font gives me a headache! The other big advantages of tic80 are that you can use an external editor, and that it supports Fennel instead of just Lua. The developer is also really accommodating and helpful to people who want to help contribute. I’d recommend giving it a try some time!

Like Reply

the_dot_matrix102 days ago

There is more to the game than just making money, but we didn’t get enough time to add enough hints to push you in the right direction. Hopefully that can be added after the jam.

I'll have to pick it up tomorrow and try to find it.

I also am not much of a fan of pico8, for a few different reasons, but the main one is that the font gives me a headache! The other big advantages of tic80 are that you can use an external editor, and that it supports Fennel instead of just Lua. The developer is also really accommodating and helpful to people who want to help contribute.

Ah I assumed there was a way to finagle pico8 to hook in fennel during the cart load, that would be unfortunate if tic80 didn't sound like a perfect alternative. Free is kinda insane in comparison but I'll take it.

Thanks for the detailed responses!

Like Reply

mattly102 days ago (1 edit) (+1)

I wish there was more focus on exploration over trading goods,

yeah this is sort of my thing, but I think making that sort of gameplay satisfying either requires some very sophisticated procgen techniques, or a lot of worldbuilding work. Exploring is one of my favorite aspects of both open world games and metroidvanias, and I'd love to make a game centered around that sometime.

The art style and music are awesome

My only gripe is ... lack of audio-visual changes

thanks! the three looping tracks (title, company systems, empire systems) came together pretty quickly, and I wanted to do more for both the music and graphics but I had a lot of life stuff going on during the jam's run and was only available for like half the time.

I gave up on manual flying when holding X felt much more responsive, even with the upgraded engine.

yeah, I could not for the life of me get the hang of manual piloting, which is why there is an autopilot.

If you do have the time, I'd love to hear both of y'all's thoughts on tic80 vs pico8

I have no experience with pico8 – the three game jams I've done with Phil are my first real game dev experiences since playing with Qbasic in high school in the early 90s. In addition to seconding Phil's assessment of the fonts, looking at it's art/music stuff I will say:

- the ability to customize colors on the TIC80 is great – in addition to just being able to make better static palettes, you can dynamically change the palette either through the Pro version's bank swapping, or direct memory manipulation through `poke`.

- the sfx editor is different, but as someone who is very experienced with synthesizer programming, TIC's sfx system strikes me as offering a lot more possibilities. I could be wrong, and I'm sure someone intimately familiar with pico's system could do some amazing things with it. Would I have made TIC's sfx system differently? yes. Would I still like to embed it in a DAW plugin? yes.

- pico's tracker looks very cramped in comparison. I'm not a big fan of trackers; I sketched out all three tunes in a more sophisticated music-making program and then copied that over to the tracker (see the picture below), but as frustrating as I found TIC's tracker to work with (need to nullify a row? you have to kill it with delete/backspace, and then insert a new one with ... the INSERT key. seriously. it's 2025. Who has an insert key on their keyboard? I added one to my QMK keyboard (which tic has further problems with) and used Karabiner Elements to add one to my Mac laptop's keyboard). Anyway after watching a few youtube videos of PICO8's tracker I'm pretty sure I would have given up in frustration.

screenshot of the sketch for the empire system music; each "clip" is labelled with the tic pattern number

tic80 seems like it could make progress for a short jam a more rewarding experience

I like TIC80 for these jams because it keeps us focused. We talked about doing this in Löve2D instead, but I'm not familiar with that yet, and I feel like the increased freedom would have helped us lose sight of trying to make an interesting _game_ in the short time we had.

Like Reply

the_dot_matrix102 days ago

yeah this is sort of my thing, but I think making that sort of gameplay satisfying either requires some very sophisticated procgen techniques, or a lot of worldbuilding work. Exploring is one of my favorite aspects of both open world games and metroidvanias, and I'd love to make a game centered around that sometime.

yeah even as I said that it sounded a bit unfair for 2 weekends... the game was just so engaging that I wanted to see out a docking bay window so badly... that plus the music I probably would've left that running on the side of my screen for a few hours, 10/10 atmosphere

I wanted to do more for both the music and graphics but I had a lot of life stuff going on during the jam's run and was only available for like half the time.

lemme clarify that was about SFX (ship thrusters etc), just to help me understand what my button presses were doing. knowing you did this music in half the time I assumed is, wow, talent

the INSERT key. seriously. it's 2025. Who has an insert key on their keyboard?

wow the im-sim (immersive simulator) of game engines... you really need a commodore 64 keyboard with the backspace, delete, and insert all lined up vertically with each other- hah! do not blame you for using (what looks to be) Logic Pro

I like TIC80 for these jams because it keeps us focused. We talked about doing this in Löve2D instead, but I'm not familiar with that yet, and I feel like the increased freedom would have helped us lose sight of trying to make an interesting _game_ in the short time we had.

precisely why i asked! while pico8 over-did the minimalism IMHO, love2d-- while minimal in terms of game engines/frameworks-- is maximalist compared to any fantasy console... and in their defense... i don't think anyone has managed to make a good neo-retro minimalist dev environment past the 80s era of the two fantasy consoles we're talking about... i just rabbit hole myself in love2d every time I use it and I end up writing a bunch of half baked libraries instead of creating art... definitely going to check tic80 out

the sfx editor is different, but as someone who is very experienced with synthesizer programming, TIC's sfx system strikes me as offering a lot more possibilities. I could be wrong, and I'm sure someone intimately familiar with pico's system could do some amazing things with it. Would I have made TIC's sfx system differently? yes. Would I still like to embed it in a DAW plugin? yes.

I'm not a big fan of trackers; I sketched out all three tunes in a more sophisticated music-making program and then copied that over to the tracker

the wavetable thing they got going on looks cool and not too daunting, but ive also stared at bitwig / vital / serum before, so im not really the right audience to tell you if it's good for folks who've barely used a DAW before... and this essentially boils down to my previous point of... once you get past a certain level of complexity, the best you can do is give your users the ability to work outside the restrictions your console creates-- tic80 seems to do that much better than pico8

I have no experience with pico8 – the three game jams I've done with Phil are my first real game dev experiences since playing with Qbasic in high school in the early 90s.

ive been thinking a lot about love2d being a bit much, there not being a 90s+ fantasy console, visual programming, and the lost magic of visual basic a lot these days... time saving, creativity enabling, education supporting, software is my jam... there's something neat about fantasy consoles that reminds me of Racket's sub-languages for teaching programming a la their textbook

kinda why i built a lot of audio visual framing and a pseudo-tech-time-machine around our submission... this convo's given me a lot to think about

thank you again, both of you, for such thoughtful comments and donating the time it took to write it all out! as well as hosting this awesome jam again :)

Like Reply