Post by Hexling4 in FUCK ME (like i'm) STUPID - Ashcan comments - itch.io

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Hexling4142 days ago(+1)(-6)

I am all for using the F slur in a reclaimed sense, but if you continue working on this and eventually release more complete or updated versions consider not using the F slur in any rules text. Especially not flavor text that refers to a player character.

It is still a slur, and even if we reclaim it we need to be careful with it because some people will have traumas and issues related to it. As much as some people may react to being called a slur by reclaiming it others might prefer to distance themselves from it. And even if you reclaim it, it is important to respect others who distance themselves from it. The F slur is sometimes related to feminization kink, but is not inherent to that kink so I don't think it needs to be present and it would be more respectful to omit it in this context.

A player might come along who for whatever reason isn't okay with being referred to by the F slur, even indirectly, but otherwise enjoys feminization kink. It kind of sucks that with the rules text as it is now, that player is excluded by default even if they otherwise enjoy all of the rest of the content in the book. The book touches on a lot of taboo kinks so you might make an argument that the F slur is just another part of that taboo and if someone isn't comfortable this isn't for them, but I just don't think the F slur is necessary in the first place and that using it thus excludes people for no real reason.

The use or prohibition of slurs in play should be part of the safety negotiation at the table. It should not, I don't think, be baked into the rules text and thus assumed permissible by default unless a given TRPG is fundamentally based around a slur. They need to be handled a bit more carefully than that.

Love the concept otherwise, apologies for the long comment I just wanted to be thorough.

Darling Demon Games141 days ago(+8)(-1)

I appreciate the in-depth comment, but I feel that I am, in your argument, being made out to be some paragon so I can be instantly trashed for failing the standard you hold me to. You do not know me.

I realize this may come across as a harsh response to your review, but I think you should be aware that you have invited me to loudly engage in my fight. This is the thing I care about most right now.

I am not making this work for people who are so uncomfortable with the use of the word faggot, or bimbo, or the use of kink that they cannot tolerate my art - I am making this work for people who are comfortable with these things, or ready to explore that comfort.

You say that you're all for using the F-slur in a reclaimed sense, but here I use it in personal art released on my own Itch, and you tell me this is wrong because some people might be uncomfortable with it.

You can say a word as ugly as 'kill' in a TTRPG as much as you want, but a word as lush as 'faggot' must be negotiated according to you, the demiurge. What context is it okay to bake faggot into a TTRPG, pre-safety? Can I speak it through the church confessional? Can I whisper it to a baby who hasn't yet learned how to babble? Can I hiss it through a single blade of grass?

I don't do this work in the capacity of a unproblematic public figure. I do it as a problem and an antithesis. I do it for myself and the faggots.

Hexling4141 days ago (6 edits) (+2)(-1)

Edited:

You know what this was a lengthy response that, while I tried to be neutral, was very emotionally influenced. I'll rewrite it more concisely.

I think you have a rather uncharitable misreading of my intent and words. Understandable, as you say this is your fight and you are bound to have emotions wrapped up in that. So I do empathize and understand with getting emotional. I got emotional too, because I as a trans woman have traumas tied up in the use of the F slur and this conversation and the use of the slur in the rulebook kind of dug those traumas to the surface. I apologize for any unpleasant emotions I have dredged up.

My original intent was not to put you on a pedestal so I can knock you off, I do not know what gave you that impression and I am sorry that you got it. I also did not intent to speak as a "demiurge" as you put it. I also do not have a problem with using the F slur in this rulebook. I thought I had made all of this clear, but it is now clear that this got buried in my lengthy explanation. I regret the miscommunication.

So I will be explicit and concise. My intent is a suggestion, that if you expand this into a full rulebook you would reach a larger audience if you did not use the F slur in that way. Using the F slur as flavor text for the clothing a player character could wear implicitly includes the player in the category of "faggot" and that is uncomfortable and potentially triggering to people like me. Thus, people like me are explicitly excluded when you use the F slur in this way. So your game would have a broader reach if it did not use it in this way. I understand that this is a rather transgressive game touching on a lot of content that will make it niche no matter what, but I do not think the F slur is essential to any of that content so its use merely turns people like me away with no perceived benefit.

I am not trying to moralize, you don't have to take this suggestion to heart, my original lengthy explanation was intended to explain my reasoning and try to help see where I am coming from. I did not succeed, and I apologize for that. It is clear to me now that your intent is not to include people like me, rather it is to express yourself fully and without compromise. I can respect that, and I will move on.

Darling Demon Games140 days ago(+5)

I was maybe a bit smarmy with my reply as well, and a lot of my language was intentionally exaggerated. Let me get a bit more real here.

I realize that 'faggot' is not a word that many queer people and trans women are comfortable with reclaiming, and I respect that personal choice.

To contend with the issue at hand - there is only one use of 'faggot' in this game, and I strongly believe that it's essential to what the game is saying. I will likely put more uses of the word 'faggot' in the game, both in places where I feel it's necessary and in places that I think it's funny, or just fits the flow of words. I will explain why I used it, but I really don't have to.

The So-Called Man is a repressed trans woman, and 'egg' so-to-speak, and part of that suppression is implied, by the presence of 'faggot clothes', to be identifying feminine things as 'faggy'. At the same time, when that character comes into herself, 'faggot clothes' takes on a new meaning - it's liberatory, it's claiming dominion and care over what things she puts on her body.

Would this game be appealing to a few more queer folks if I didn't use 'faggot'? Sure. Ultimately, though, I would never really hear about it and never really know unless you left a comment about it. I've known LGBTQ+ people who dislike 'queer', and I don't intend to stop using that to expand my prospective audience. This is the way I write and the way I operate - I use the sort of language that appeals to me, and 'faggot' appeals to me in full face of its implications and consequences.

Hexling4140 days ago (2 edits) (+1)

Fair enough! And glad to have this sorted out.

I think having heard the full thought process the only thing I can say is its somewhat limiting to presume that the character would use and relate to the f slur in this way, like it precludes any other relationship with the word or any other expression of transness. Which as a trans woman, to me is kinda sad. But like, it seems like you're specifically angling for this expression of transness so I can't ultimately fault it. My original assumption that the f slur was out of place here wasn't accurate, so my bad ^^