Post by SheyGrell in Devlog - 33 [DEMO UPDATE] comments

Viewing post in Devlog - 33 [DEMO UPDATE] comments

Being a huge fan of Soma, that's some good inspiration to have :3 The only thing I'd be truly concerned for though, if you chose this route, is how longevity the game will have. Once everything's out there on the net, it kinda feels like it's time has passed. I kinda feel that way about most games that have hidden files; It's a collaberative effort that once solved, has had it's day as far as the general public is concerned. As much as I love Soma (Seriously), that game is no exception to this stigma. Speaking as candidly but sincerely as I can on this, I feel this game deserves a much better fate than that. While I have no illusion about the effort & time it takes, I strongly believe that it would benefit greatly from that little bit of extra TLC, to make it as much of a literal 'Single player' experience as possible in this day & age.

Also, I'm not saying you haven't already put TLC into this... Just making that one very clear.

I'd like to offer a few other examples of in-game rewards, since there's a lot of possibilities with this. Lets pretend for just a second that these ideas wouldn't be a whole other workload that would most likely need to be done as an update/expansion, once the main game is finished;

- Metal Gear Solid: There's always been a bit of interactivity with the unlockables in that, ie; Cutscenes are available in the Movie Theatre, in which you can run around as the main character to choose & play whichever cutscene yourself. They also play around with that in MGS: Special Missions (Photo mode), so there's plenty of room with at least the concept.

- Tomb Raider Anniversary: Find secrets & relics, and finish the levels to unlock character bios, art galleries, commentaries, cutscenes, music & miscellaneous extras like this really cool showcase of all the evironments & their assets (Style Units). Once you've finished the levels, beat them in Time Trial to unlock cheats (Complete an entire chapter, unlock 2 at a time). If anything, stuff like that can be good for hammering in just how much work something of this scale needs.

- Mass Effect 1: After getting achievements for completion as one of the classes you can choose at the start (Soldier, Vanguard, Adept, Sentinel, Engineer, Infiltrator), you can play again as a different class, but with all the skills from the previous class now available (Beat the game as a soldier & choose to be an Infiltrator on the second run, all of Soldier's skills & weapons can be used). I know this isn't an RPG, but the principle of this is interesting to think about, and I've never seen another game do anything like this.

- Metroid Prime: Best not forget these! Stuff like artwork gets unlocked simply by scanning stuff & collecting info (25% complete, 1st gallery open, etc). Simple, but entirely worth remembering in this case.

If I think of any other examples, I'll err... I dunno, there's options available.

This is a lot of info for something that's probably not intended to be thought of as much as I am, and I'm well aware that some would be more tricky than others to think of a suitable use for. The point of this is to give you the info for nothing more than brainstorming. Who knows, you might get an idea or two from one of these & put your own little twist on them. It helps things gain identity & stand out just that little bit more. But at the end of the day, it's all up to you & I'm just someone typing walls of text about this stuff ^^;

Apapappa4 years ago(+1)

So I think I get what you are saying but I don't think there's much I can do to combat this.

Basically everything will be available on the internet, whether it be straight up passwords for the zips, playthrough videos, images, anything.

It all depends on how popular the game will be.

I also didn't really mean that every reward will be a zip thing only, I'll be trying to add other things as well, maybe something similar to some of the things you listed. (will put these things on the list so I can go back and look again)

I'm pretty sure I will be having some achievement zips though as I have some stuff I think would fit pretty perfectly for that kind of thing.

I appreciate the feedback though and will put this on the list as mentioned earlier, I'm just not terribly concerned about achievement content right now as adding stuff like this would fit much better when the entire game is basically complete.

The reason a few achievements already exists is to have a system in place to easily add them later.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions and I'll keep this in mind for later. :)

SheyGrell4 years ago

I completely agree with you; This kind of thing is best saved until after the main game is assembled, if you decide to do anything along these lines. It's absolutely fine if you feel uncertain whether or not it's worth it, depending on how popular the game will be. I only mention it because as a fan of this, I feel it would be disengenuous to not voice up any concerns.

I could try listing more games with more examples, but to be honest, I think the list I've given says about as much as it's going to say, at least in terms of unlockable rewards. But I think I'd like to add a more general observation about this stuff.

Thinking back to some of my favourite games ever, they were some of the most tightly self-contained single player experiences ever made, because of one reason or another. But above all, just about every one of them have one distinct thing in common; An experience on a dedicated console, without any kind of intention of tying things to the internet. Something that was solely focussed on keeping your hands on that controller (Or keyboard), and immersing you as much as possible. That's what a lot of older consoles have over today's stuff; They don't need the internet to access a single thing in the games. That can benefit the whole thing, right down to how each individual room feels. I still remember actually feeling the cold through most of Metal Gear Solid (psx), but the warm temperature of my room gave me the impression of being in the sneaking suit. Was exactly the same for Phendrana Drifts in Metroid Prime, as well as a lot of Super Metroid (Y'know, the red caverns & that famous music, and the way you go further down through damp tunnels to get to Norfair or Maridia? Or the start of Zebes? Or the corridor that leads you to the Torian Lift? Good stuff!).

But because this isn't for a dedicated, older console; The most recent example I can think of has got to be Hyper Light Drifter, an awesome but brutally hard game on Steam. It's purely concerned with keeping you in the game, exploring everything there is to offer. It has little interest in having people poke around in the gamefiles, doesn't care that YouTube & forums are a thing, and proves that it's still possible to take this kind of approach on today's platforms (Digital distribution, etc). I'd recommend checking it out if you ever have the time. It's well & truly worth it, and the behind-the-scenes story is really interesting.

... Anyway, I know there's not much you can do about the whole internet thing (I mean... Well... Yeah), but I'm hoping you get what I mean about the game being more immersive when it's self-contained. If you get any idea on how to use that principle in your own way, there's no limit to the kind of atmosphere you can create with this. That & it helps the whole 'Keeping the player hooked' angle.

Gotta say, feels kinda good to share that bit of info with a dev. Whether it's any use or not, it's a strong belief I've had for years.

Apapappa4 years ago(+1)

So, yeah, things actually became a bit more clear now.

I definitely agree with keeping as much as possible self-contained within the game.

There's one issue with this though, most of the things I plan to possibly put inside locked zips can not be put inside the actual game. (it's not images, audio, video or text)

So I don't really have much of a choice other that zips for those specific things.

But for anything that is one of the things mentioned above, those can be put inside the actual game and I will try to find a good way to do this, if I decide to include any of these things.

As for the atmosphere stuff, I've only scratched the surface of what I actually want the atmosphere to be like, hopefully I can fully realize this with time. And yes, most of the super metroid things you listed are actually a big inspiration for atmosphere, mostly the tourian lift corridor and maridia glass tube stuff.

And about the internet, yeah, there is definitely nothing I can do, even if everything was included inside the actual game there will still be videos of how to do this and that, videos showing all the unlocked achievement stuff, and most likely even unpacked game files available somewhere. (depending on game popularity)

And I know *of* Hyper Light Drifter, the gameplay just didn't look like my type of game so I didn't really care that much, so I don't know, I probably won't look that deep into it.

So yeah, I basically agree with everything, it's just hard to actually make things happen the way you want in-game, and I've got so many planned things (definitely too many) so we'll just have to see what happens with time.

I appreciate the feedback / suggestions as it has actually helped me think of things to do / add, so thanks for that. ;)

SheyGrell4 years ago

First off, I just want to say I'm really, really sorry for being silent for so long. I've been... Well, it's been an insane time for all. Let's just say that.

I don't want you to get the impression that I'm offended or anything. This is kind of a reason why I leave large amounts of info in one comment; I may not have much chance of input for a while.

Since this was a while ago, I also want to let you know that I completely get all of what you've said. Oh & once again, no worries, glad to be of any kind of help :) It's not my intention to say the things I do as if that's the final word, because I'm not the one developing Zordak. I can only try to keep up, and leave as much info as possible that I think might be useful. I have to apologise if I give the impression that I expect everything I mention to have a place here. If anything, it's simply because a lot of this stuff is hard to describe in the right way.

Oh & about the whole Hyper Light Drifter thing; If you haven't already looked at anything yet, I could only suggest a few minutes of a couple or so videos, just so you can get an impression of the variety the aesthetic & music has. But aside from that, I will say that while I love the game... I may've almost broke a controller at a couple of points >.> It's kinda hard.

I really hope you're doing well & keeping safe right now :3

Apapappa3 years ago

Oh it's fine, take all the time you need, it's not like you're required to post here or anything. ;)

Yeah of course, I understand you're not trying to "force" me to add the things you want or anything like that.

I just put a lot of stuff on "the list".. this does not mean they will actually be added to the game tho, it's just a list of ideas basically.

I took a look at the trailer for Hyper Light Drifter and I don't really know what to say, it just didn't really grab me this time either.

I understand it's likely a good game, it's just not my type of game.

And I'm doing fine I guess, not much has changed for me except the fact that going outside right now is not exactly ideal.

Hopefully you're doing fine as well. :)

itch.io

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