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Thank you

A topic by JK5000 created Sep 11, 2022 Views: 180 Replies: 5
Viewing posts 1 to 5
Submitted(+2)(-1)

Another game jam has reached the end and it is time to say thank you to all of the game jammers, and thank you to all of those that have made the jam possible: CodeMystTheDutchMagikarpBrackeysAquaXVDuxezYilian .

I have been and I will continue to be both really happy to be a part of the game jam family, but also critical about how we are not always behaving in the best possible way. But the game jam family is still mostly a creative, helpful and respectful group of people, that just loves to make and play weird, fun, and amazing jam games. The Brackeys Game Jam is always a great start for the new game developers, but there is also room for some of us game jam oldies.

But like I have already mentioned is not everything perfect, and I do know it will never be perfect. I have in another post told some of the issues with jam culture, so I will here only come with a pretty brief synopsis.

There is from some jammers a bit too much focus on them and their games, and not on other peoples games. This often seen in comments/feedback given that mostly focus on making others playing their game. Actorly in many cases they don't even seem to be playing or rating other peoples games, but only focus on making other people playing theirs. The issue is also in some cases seen in the 'rate for rate'-posts, where there clearly is more focus on making others playing their games, then actorly on rating and playing others.

But there is also another issue, and it is that a lot of jammers do not play and rate games at all, or at least don't do it very much. In my opinion there should be more focus on the play, rating and feedback part of the game jams, because this is just as an important part of the jams. I believe that most of us want to have people to play, and talk about the games we made. To make this happen we all need to take part of the playing, rating and given feedback.

I can't say what the best solution is to those issues, but I have some ideas.

  • Games that have already received 20 ratings shall not be able to be rated anymore, or at least before most the games has received 20 ratings.
  • You can't get a final placement or perhaps even see your ratings, if you haven't played and rated at least 20 games yourself. (And if someone should just begin to give all the games a 1 star ratings, they should be disqualified from the jam.)
  • There should in the jam introduction be more fucus on the playing, given feedback and rating part of the jam.
  • People should be told that self promoting of your own games in other game jammers game pages is a no go. I would even like to see those game jammers get warnings not to do so, and in some rare cases I even want to see them get disqualified from the jam. 

But anyway, now I am done with my old mad mans criticism, and I am happy to see that there is still a lot of great game jammers out there. And they are still making more and more amazing games. Some of you do do a great job playing, rating and even given feedback to other jammers. I also in the future hopes to a lot you fine people out their in the wild and crazy game jam world.

Finally thank you again to all of you, that have been fight for making this game jam amazing for all of us. 

Submitted (1 edit) (+1)

Great assessment. I agree with the criticisms; still, I think the solution is not obvious.

Games that have already received 20 ratings shall not be able to be rated anymore, or at least before most the games has received 20 ratings.

This reminds me of the rating queue concept that can be applied by the game jam owners.

A side effect I can think of is that this could lead to faster, less detailed, lower-quality reviews, because the opinions of people that hurry / rush it will be more taken into account. For example, I tend to be super slow for reviewing, but go very in depth and take the time to write an account. Your idea of limiting the lock to waiting for ‘most’ games to have 20 ratings could work, but then, I do not know how to select the ratio, since there is a share of games that have few votes because they are either hard to download / make work or have gameplay problems (hard to understand, long…) that make people pass on rating them. Which is why there is bound to be some games with few votes; so, in the proposed system, they will either stay that way and we have to figure out how to take this into account, or they will get meaningless (harsh?) ratings.

You can't get a final placement or perhaps even see your ratings, if you haven't played and rated at least 20 games yourself. (And if someone should just begin to give all the games a 1 star ratings, they should be disqualified from the jam.)

My fear is, as you correctly anticipated, that this will cause some people to give many rushed ratings; and I do not see how you could control for genuine votes: if I were to apply a dishonest rushing rating strategy, I would throw in some 2s or even 3s into the mix. You can always be unfair while voting, there is no simple way to really detect such a behaviour.

There should in the jam introduction be more fucus on the playing, given feedback and rating part of the jam.

Strongly agree on this one! :) I had this idea too and have written it elsewhere. I also think itch.io should make the Karma system (and least-rated list) more obvious, for example, make it the default ordering (or even only ordering??).

People should be told that self promoting of your own games in other game jammers game pages is a no go. I would even like to see those game jammers get warnings not to do so, and in some rare cases I even want to see them get disqualified from the jam.

I think the itch.io interface that already shows commenters’ games below their comments is enough indeed. Given this, I see side sentences asking for a review as having minor influence (I may be wrong), but what really is a problem (and you may be referring to this, actually) is meaningless spammy comments only made to get visibility (and possibly Karma). Like ‘cool game’ when the person may have not even played nor rated! (I have seen some people do this in this event, copy-pasting the very same short comment everywhere… ._.)

Incidently, I recently stumbled upon a Ludum Dare post discussing the karma system and what would be best; notice the whole point (both in the post and the comments) about unintended side effects, this is really a tricky subject! As said there, no system is perfect, and there is always some way to game the system to some extent if you are being dishonest. The ‘spammy comments strategy’ for getting karma/‘coolness’ is also tackled in the comments.

I have only seen a little portion of the games, but I agree there was creativity. :) Maybe some will want to try the legendary Ludum Dare (starting 30th September) and possibly the hard ‘Compo’ category; I think I will! (Oh, by the way, I discover theme suggestions have just opened!)

Submitted

Hello again Mossieur Parate

I agree with you that my solution might not work, but I believe we need to do something, and if we do not try anything, we will never know if it will work or not. But I don't really care how we solve the issues, but I just think we have to do something.

As I see it there is also some issues with the way some people gives feedback. There is the I don't care about you and your game feedback. This does of cause not help anyone. But there is also the long  detailed feedback. This can be good, but it is sometimes also gets unnecessary long, and we spent much time on something we could have used to give feedback to other games. The problem especially is when you just repeat the same feedback others has already has given. For me the best feedback is often the short ones, that tells me something no one else has told me. And I am also not a super fan of the I hate every about your game feedback. Especially it is an issue if they write long list of reasons why hate the game.

Anyway I hope to see you again at the Ludum Dare game jam.

Submitted(+1)

<after 20 ratings new ones can only be seen by the game owner / dont count towards total public score

Submitted(+1)

Congratulations on finishing a game jam. After all the stress and late night work, we have finally finished. Thank you all for the constructive criticism and feedback, thank you for playing and rating my game. It was a really fun game jam.

Submitted

Also a thank you for the down voters of my critical posts, it gives a great insight of your opinion :)