I appreciate the context abt the situation in China. I didn't realize how much weight that 'betrayal' narrative carries there or how personal this is for you and your marriage. It makes sense why you feel the need to push back so hard.
Abt the bi stereotype, I think in my country, some ppl I observe have the same mindset as that too, even though it's not extreme in this situation, they think that "bi ppl just have an easy way out compared to gay ppl, they use gay ppl for a phase/experience, ...".
It's just like one poison apple in a basket full of apples, which make the ppl to reluctant, whether they want to eat the apple or not. Or in the bigger picture, it's like straight ppl agaisnt the lgbtq+ community.
This topic alone is really complex and can't be discussed through some texts, both side have their own reasons. Even I don't know how I would react if one day my same-sex bi partner decides to break up cuz they want to be with someone who can have kids together. But I know that attacked ppl just because you have a happy marriage life are never right.
At this point, the drama is just about them being negative for no reason. It’s clear you’re staying true to the M/M focus while just being honest abt who the characters are. Like I said before, the best way to prove them wrong is to just keep dropping high-quality M/M updates. Actions always speak louder, and you can't be popular with fans without some drama and haters after all.
kinoko
Recent community posts
Yeah, I should have made it clear abt that part in the comment, but the thing is, some ppl just play the game and see it all focus on M/M, so they assume it's a gay FVN, and got salty when you said they are confirmed bi.
I think rn you just need to have more bi moments, or express that the characters are bi in the story, to make it clear to the player. Just start saying that they are bi on a post, it's not enough to convince the players. Cuz some ppl just wait for new update on Itch and play, they didn't even care abt reading posts or update on other platforms, lol.
Guilty to say this, but I didn't know abt this drama until you posted it here lol. Abt the bi chars, I never notice if anyone fully express themself as bi, so I just have a huh? moment. Even though I have play this since 2021 and even have a story summary page on Notion (I need to have a job fr fr), but ig the story could have been changed here and there, or it's just too small to notice, so I could have missed it.
But if they hate and you and the game just because of being bi, you should have given them a big "fck off" and ignored them, it never ends well, try to interact with them.
To summarize:
Creator logic: "The characters are bi, but they are in a male x male story. Nothing changes for the player."
Hater logic: "If you label them as bi, you are opening the door for women / non M/M fans to join the community, and eventually, the game will change cater to them."
My opinion:
I think it's rooted in long-time supporters who've enjoyed this vn cuz it's already a specific niche for years, which is M/M (it's like their safe space), and now that you're rebranding, ppl will start to protect it in good or bad ways.
Easy to understand is like when a creator changes the character sprites cuz it looks better; some ppl still prefer the old ones, and in your situation, it just makes ppl take it to extremes.
I think ppl like that are concerned that a broader demographic also means the gay-focused story will be diluted.
Are you sure that, as a creator, if in the future you add more female characters, you will still keep the same quality, time release and M/M focused the same or it will start to shift to M/F?
You are also removing the Gay tag also a bad choice. This tag is to tell that everyone can play, but the story will be about men loving men. When you remove it, that means M/M is not the main focus anymore, and new ppl could demand the creator to add M/F content, which is what the og fans are afraid of.
The moment you take ppl money for this project, you have to treat it like a business, not a hobby. So not only are the creator's opinions important, the players and the fans are too, and even the haters (haters - ppl that used to be your fan). And from that, you will have to make choices that make the most sense for all the ppl, not just you.
Also, trying to argue with the haters is just like adding fuel to the fire, and for you as a creator, it never ends well.
About the diversity, there is nothing wrong with having more diversity in a VN, but at the same time, it doesn't need to have it all in one. Being the game itself rn, a M/M furry VN, is already a specific niche to contribute to the VN community in general. So whether you pick, you have to be smart and logical too.
Solution:
The easiest way is to follow where the money goes, make a poll on the P platform, ask if they want to add smth new like female or bi male char, etc. If the majority agrees, then do it; if not, then don't. It's not worth it to go against the ppl that paid you. Everything else didn't matter much.
I'm 100% being neutral abt this situation here, and curious what will come out after all this drama.
I think what you said could be what happened; it's just his coping mechanism (I remember he even mentioned going to a therapist and even took medicine, so yeah, it's that bad).
And about the voice, if I remember it correctly, he did start to accept the truth, and that voice is like a small intrusive side of him that wants to take revenge for what happened to Alex, but who knows, it could be one of those ominous characters we didn't meet yet.
The fact that I have a personal page with a 36k-word summary of this VN—covering all routes, choices, episodes, glitches, and endings—is insane 💀 Mainly cuz I keep forgetting what happens every time a new update comes out and I have to re-read this from D1 💀 This VN better hurry up and give me the HE with Lars, cuz I’m getting old and cranky.
SPOILER:
I get what you mean, but I think the writer did that on purpose to show another side of him.
He like that cuz he's drunk—some ppl's personality can flip 180 when they drink.
Also, D12 is actually important. Even though it looks like a fun date, it's literally him opening up about a part of himself to MC—how he used to do "dirty work" just to survive since he was homeless, jobless, and falsely accused of a crime he didn't commit (Lars Ep).
At the beginning, he was alr ashamed in front of MC, like when he camped on someone else's property or volunteered just to get free meals. That's why MC learning more abt him in D12 is like opening a can of worms for him.
So after the date in D12, being in a vulnerable state, you can see how he tries to act normal—awkward and "out of place"—cuz he still working on accepting that past, and he's also afraid that MC might hate him for it. That's also why, if you didn't gain enough points, he will not invite you on a date.
But all of this is just my speculation, so take it however you like.
Gahh, this is so good. Some parts of the story are a bit weird, but overall, it's still so good and well developed, the mini games and puzzles, like hello, that's really nice.
Do you plan to have extra stories for some side characters with MC, like an alternative "what-if" with CGs? Some side characters are so good-looking (like Ali and Ryder), and it's a bit sad not to have a chance with them.
I'm 50/50 about whether this is an actual try-hard or just an overcomplicated vn (I'm not said the vn is bad, just confused).
You can see how detailed and important the choices are, but it kind of lacks guidance, clues, or indicators, so I don't know if what I choose is "right or wrong." Some parts of the story just "stuck", so ofc I have to try different choices, which also have different outcomes, I'm just more confused atp 💀.
Until I search the internet for a guide, lol.
I'm curious about cgs too, did it planned to be like a bonus what-if scenarios for the main story, or it's like a route for each character? cuz the choices are way to specific and cg with the same character even have conflicts choices.
I spent 45 save pages, tried to unlock all cgs, only to realize cg4 in v1.5 has a 3-day limit and insane conditions to unlock the full cg or you just get a tease of it 💀 (After trying to unlock for a few hrs, I give up and sappy with half of the scene lol).
It's still an ongoing vn, so I'm not mentioning the plot much. But it's good. The battle system and character designs are nice too. So, after play as long as possible, I can said it's def a unique vn and you should try it too cuz why not lol.
Pls read b4 you spend money, and hope you got a good playing cuz I didn't 💀 I did some reviews check and they have somewhat the same opinions too.
If you play for the stories - The climax is so badly written that I (an easy reader) can't even digest it, the "villain" in this is just a pitiful toxic guy that can't accept something minor happened yrs ago. And the writer makes sure this "villain" doesn't get any consequences for what he has done. (Imagine like after someone 💀 you, realize they 💀the innocent one, and just go *oopise* and move on like nothing happened).
If you play to collect cgs - It's not worth it, cuz it only have 6 scenes, each scene only have 1 pose and very short paragraph to describe it.
There is one scene that kinda hard to find so you need multiple saves within max 10 pages. If you desperate, it's better and more time saving if you search online rather playing it.
(I got triggered while reading one of the scenes because of how badly written it is lol)
If you play to spend time/dating with hot characters - That's the saddest part, cuz this is a detective focus game (like Ace Attorney), not a dating game. That means you get to talk to all of them, to just gather information for debate, not actual dating. One character, that you might like him, has already had a bf and been hypnotized, so just a heads up lol. And yes, main character will still be single after "good /best" ending.
If you want to know all the endings - Heads up that none of the endings, the "villain" will face consequences for what he has done. Bad ending, one person will escape (and get mind-erasing, so they can't save the others 💀) while the others will be trapped in the island for the rest of their lives and they live like in a tribal and have kids together 💀💀💀. "Good/Best" ending, the group did escape, but either they still got sabotaged their career or they became friend with the "villain" (crazy af).
Sho's lust expression in the bed scene is terrifying, but if you add a sudden zoom-in on the sprites with that face, it definitely makes a jumpscare to the scene 🤫
I don't know what Sho going to do after all that cuz I feel like everything goes against him at this point 😓 (If you choose all bad choices in the bad path)
Torulf spoiler alert:
After doing all three endings, I can see how a red-flag Tordork is and fascinated by how he can subtly control both Arvo and Lake without trying much.
It's a bit sad to see how he always chases to that "highest" point in every aspect of his life (jobs, places, emotions,...), always talks about traveling to places to feel better than everyone else, and he will run away when things get hard, serious or just bored.
These things also affect Arvo and Lake, like they feel they aren't good enough for him. Playing as Arvo just feel like a teenage boy in the community finally being loved by someone, especially someone older but not worked out. (I relate sm, but I'm glad that I'm over that phase now, lol).
Long story short, if I really think about it, Tordork is maybe about 50% of a bad person (lol), but actions have been made, so he's still a jerk anyways.
I hoped Arvo and Lake team up to start a revenge arc against Tordork. And I think the best outcome after D5 is just him being guilty and apologizing, but let's wait and see.
*BIG BIG SPOILER*
From the title "Broken Harbours", and after playing the game, I think Devon and Rune are like the right person wrong time kind of situation, which leads to "more than friends, but not lover". Even though they spend time with each other and even do "the thing", their loneliness is still there, or I think at least it is for Rune.
After the shower, Rune decides to go home, even though Devon suggests staying with him for the night. The story does not explain about Rune much in the end so idk.
For Devon, looks like he is finding some peace with his past, and he gonna accept of what will happen between him and Rune, good or bad because it's just another page of his life.
"No ship can moor at broken harbours", this describes what happens to the both of them rn, they are not ready for a LTR yet.
Also, a daffodil means hope, but giving someone a single daffodil also means misfortune. (idk if it means anything but I'm just putting it out there)
One question is, after this story, do they actually do "the thing" more than once or is it just a one time? 🤔 (before the DC ofc)
IMMEDIATELY NO 💀 the new icon makes Walter look like an unserious douchebag imo, he is supposed to look innocent and naive (if I'm correct) and the other is something... The art style def not fit with this game at all. Hoping there will be options to change it back or I will need some time to adjust to this "new" Walter.
And about the story's progress issue, ig they try to make the story as well-rounded and details as possible (also this is a multiple-choice VN), so it def takes a longer time to write, which is okay because I prefer that than linear story and I can still live at least 30+ yrs so I think I'm fine with that. 💀
ngl but I half blame Edgar for this, he has a FAMILY already but still acts like he is single, he even jokes abt ''what if his wife agrees to this'' and I like wtf? And Gil was not innocent either, but he kept it professional at the start and somehow failed at the end LOL. If Gil has an affair with Edgar and now he tries to have a relationship with Edgar's SON, aka Walter, that's the NEXT LEVEL of disgusting (ABSOLUTELY JAILLL). And look like this VN, 2/8 dads become a wh*re now. 🙂
First time I finish all the routes and it's so good (took me months though lol), this game is so well-made, the story is easy to follow and enough for you to play more, sometimes have that Doki Doki vibes and you can kinda "talk" to the narrator (really enjoy those)
So far, I like Lars (the little things he does and said are subtle but so cute) and Tora
This game has so many choices that make me overwhelm sometimes (not a bad thing ofc) cuz I somehow got used to linear VNs lol
I mean everything could happen; you just don't see it irl yet 🤔
To me, I actually enjoy the tennis match (when it has an indicator of what is going on) cuz it gives meaning to the name game "Tennis Ace", it's like a break from all the drama you have been through and it shows that how good Yuu is, not just by words. But when it does not have an indicator, I just fast read till the end cuz idk what happen.
I notice that the journey to the route select is kinda long (no complaint abt it), but it could mean the story will be longer?
Yuu has a backstory in other routes? (Like there is a part abt his past?) Cuz in Sho route, I don't see much of it. Other VNs I read are still in progress so I can judge abt it (some did mention lil bit, other is still expanding) and it is usually put somewhere at the end of the story, weird 🤔