## wyp020610

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A member registered May 17, 2022 · View creator page →

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I think you can make the player "softlocked" by missing a certain skill, but at the same time, enable inverting a craft, so the player can get out of the softlock.

Inverting a craft should cost nothing, but it still takes time to craft it back.

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Very interesting game. I've reached my first prestige, and it seems to become much more grindy from this point.

I have encountered one problem:

Prestige resets offline time.  I have played many games with offline time mechanisms, and none of them reset offline time on a prestige.

I think offline time is a savefile layer thing, so only hard reset should reset it.

Interesting concept, but I don't see the relation between collatz conjecture and incremental mechanisms.

Currently, the only incremental mechanism in the game that makes use of the conjecture, is how many steps each number will take to go back to 1. This determines how many producer ticks can be made per verifier tick. This is just 'idle clockwork', not 'collatz clockwork'.

I have some ideas for improvement:

1. Concept:

This is just a game, and players' computers are nowhere near enough to find nontrivial results to collatz conjecture.

Even if a number diverges, the player's computer has no way to determine it's actually a counterexample. This process can't prove the conjecture either.

Limiting the money gain by the player's computer power will also severely limit the incremental growth of the game, and therefore limiting game design.

So you can forget about proving the lower bound, and instead make use of the sequence produced from the numbers. This will allow for more interesting incremental mechanisms, and stays close to the conjecture.

2. 'Level' skips:

Instead of trying to check every number to 1, you can instead skip some numbers that will trivially reduce to some previously checked numbers, like even numbers.

3. Sequence based mechanisms:

It's very simple to design, like 'multiply money gained based on current sequence length', or even 'multiply money by log of highest number reached in the current sequence'. These are much more interesting and also more connected to the conjecture.

These upgrades will benefit from finding a longer sequence that oscillates wildly before eventually converges (or maybe doesn't converge within the available steps). The level skip could completely discard the current verification scheme, and instead focus on searching numbers that leads to such interesting sequences.

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I've played a new save to have a look at the lumberjack quest and the church shop, which I have missed before.

The lumberjack quest unlocks a new buff potion, and it seems that this potion can also be sold for money. 5 gold each.

I think this potion itself has some limited use, as an early game replacement of rift potion (for escaping) and time freeze potion (for other actions).

This potion accelerates player action, which is useful for dangerous situations. However it costs HP, so it can also cause problems. I think in early game this can be used to solve some farm dungeons that are otherwise difficult. It won't have much use in late game.

Selling this for money is only viable in mid-game, when you have a steady supply of blood from the scarlet flask, and you still go to tier 1 forest for mandrake.

In early game I don't have much spare sanguine essence for this. In late game I don't often go to tier 1 zones, and tier 2 zones don't provide enough something fey for crafting this. There is also no need for so much money in late game either.

About the church shop, it sells ingredients for something holy, but I don't need much of it either. It is indeed an early-mid game shop, just like the dev log said.

I've played this game again in v2.1. It's so addicting, I've been playing it for 3 days. I've reached 2 years, solved all the areas, and unlocked all the potions except the lumberjack one. It seems I have missed the lumberjack quest, and now I can only buy wood from him.

It seems I have also missed the shop of the lonely church.

As of now I have 3k something dead and 6k fuel, and ~900 money. I wonder whether there will be a late game Richardo shop upgrade, as I have nowhere to spend this money now.

I have encountered a bug. It caused a crash. Reloading the game and repeating the steps caused the game to crash again.

I was exploring the fort area, in depth 2. I was trying to kill the wyrm. My tactic is, first use rot potion, then retreat and wait until it has only 1 hp, then go back and use a fireball.

The wyrm is usually in a special room with only 1 exit. This crash happens when the only exit is blocked by pits. I threw a rot potion from the other side of the pit, and retreated. About 4 turns later the game froze, and I have to kill the process by the taskmanager.

This tactic would work perfectly without the pit. Eventually I killed the wyrm with a different tactic, and moved on. I guess there is some problem with the wyrm's pathfinding logic.

I have some thoughts about the new items and changes:

1. The skeleton key is super powerful. It trivializes the traps in the dungeon, as they can now be lockpicked for no cost.

2. The bestiary is also very powerful. It allows the player to make effective tactics without trial and error of death.

3. The weather system caused something luminiscent to be less abundant, but there's still enough for me. This is mainly because the rains cause the fireflies to hide.

The weather visual effect is a bit too heavy, and it causes some difficulty for me to see the path. But I don't want to turn it off completely, maybe there should be an option to reduce weather visual effect.

4. I can't find a use for the black fire. It deals only 15~20 dmg, and is not enough for the stronger enemies. It is also too expensive for killing weak enemies. I tried it in a forest and it didn't spread well. It also has severe issue of potential backfire.

I think this potion is designed against swarm enemies but there is no such enemies in the game for now.

5. The scarlet flask makes something sanguine quite abundant. It's now a little too abundant, as this component is only used in healing and curing potions.

6. The leatherskin potion seems powerful, but isn't actually that powerful, since not many enemies deal physical damage.

7. The eelskin potion seems to be designed against crimson ivy. It could probably be helpful in later combats like crystal mansion, and it's quite cheap. I didn't use it though, because I could already kill the enemies quickly enough, and I prefer to avoid the damage completely.

8. The salamander boots make burning down forests easier. Instead of finding somewhere safe from fire, I'm now immune to flames.

9. The sparkling gloves are quite powerful, it can kill enemies easily in wet environments, and it's quite powerful in crystal mansion, saving a lot of shockwave potions. I think both of this is by design.

10. The efficient burner seems helpful, it saves a lot of fuel in distilling, and saves a little fuel in brewing.

Strangely, it halves the fuel cost of ember potion, but some of the fuel is supposed to be a part of the potion, instead of used in brewing. Maybe the effcient burner makes fuel in the potion also burn more efficiently?

Some previous problems:

1. The snake problem is solved. The snakes are a lot less aggressive now. The bestiary also explains why they are sometimes aggressive.

2. Umbral essence seems to be not that scarce now. I think the coffee thing is added in this version, and it provides some umbral essence. This allows me to use some frost potions, though it's still not very useful. I think frost potion can solve crimson ivy, but we have eelskin now.

3. The loot overlay now has its own UI component, together with a new creature overlay. Nice job done.

This update has also caused a new problem: Frequent switching of equipments.

In the previous version, I only have 2 equipments, and I use the sinister gloves most of time. There isn't much switching between them. In this version, I have 3 equipments, and I often need to switch between the sinister glove and the sparkling glove.

I think some equipment effects should be merged. As I can switch to the basic gloves at anytime with no time cost, its effect should be merged into all of the more advanced gloves. The same with boots, though verdant boots might have some adverse effects, so making it permanent is not good.

I think this could be solved be adding a new mechanism: Equipment enchantment. When you unlock more advanced equipments, some lower tier equipments can be turned into enchantment. Enchantment can be equipped with other equipments at the same time, but doesn't stack with its original equipment.

Finally the game is out!

Now we have a free and paid version. Unfortunately, I don't have access to itch's payment tools, so I can't get the paid version now. I have the money,  it's just the payment tools.

So I decide to play the free version for a while, and buy this game later, and then transfer my save file to the paid version. Is the save file compatible between the two versions?

A high fixed cost for permanent stat increase might be difficult to balance. I have a better idea: not make the potion cost high, but as you drink more of the same potion, the effect of each additional potion will get lower.

I think a square root or cube root diminishing return is good enough. That means the total effect scales with the square (cube) root of the amount of potions drunk. For certain special stats that have a large influence, you can use logarithm.

For players that want to grind, they can get relatively high stats, but not too high that would break the game. (A mage with 100 melee attack is certainly broken.) And for players that don't want to grind, they can still benefit from the potion.

I've reincarnated twice, and I have some suggestions:

I'm playing v1.10 as the ingame menu shows.

1. Burger is broken, even when you have no raw naterials, you can drag raw material to the cooking tray, and make burgers out of thin air.

Ice city doesn't have this exploit.

This exploit allows you to get lots of cash very quickly, until late game.

In late game, burgers are irrelevant because they require constant attention, and they don't generate that much income compared to late game auto smelting. Even with this exploit.

I have unlocked ice city, but haven't used it, because its income generation is already irrevelant when I have access to it, and its level bonus is reset on reincarnation.

2. Reincarnation should do something to burger (and ice city) exp gain.

Currently reincarnation resets burger exp, and none of the reincarnation upgrades allows faster burger exp gain.

As burger is a side minigame, it's entirely reasonable for reincarnation to not reset its exp and level.

It's also possible to have reincarnation upgrades that allow you to get more burger exp, and maybe an upgrade for keeping burger level, or starting reincarnation with a few levels.

3. This game is tagged incremental. Reincarnation is a prestige mechanism, so it should help with incrementing. It should help towards digging deeper, and also benefit from digging deeper.

Currently, you can only earn at most 1 coin per dig, no matter how deep you go. With a specfic upgrade it becomes 2 coins per dig, but it still doesnt benefit much from going deep.

I think the drill coin gain should be revamped, like this:

Instead of having coins limited to a fixed amount per day, their spawn is limited by depth.

Initially they start spawning at 5km, and when you mine one, they move to 6 km. For every coin you mine, their spawn depth is 1km deeper. They are still in blocks like they currently are, just change their limit.

For example, the coin spawn is initially at 5km. In a day, you drill to 50km depth, and collected 20 coins on the way. After that, the coin spawn is at 25km, and you need to drill to at least 25km to collect more.

With this change in place, you actually need to go deeper to collect more coins, and when you can't go deeper, you need to reincarnate.

Considering there are multiple drilling locations, coins collected should be counted separately for each location, and the depth requirement is increased separately. Some locations are harder to dig, so they could have a lower 'depth increment per poin'.

This makes unlocking different locations truly powerful, and instead of unlocking all the locations at once, some more valuable locations should be locked behind upgrades.

The extra coin from earned money might also need some change. It favors short run too much.

4. Reincarnation should give some more useful boosts, not just fuel capacity.

High grade fuel tanks can recharge themselves over time, so fuel capacity won't help much. On the other hand, inventory space is scarce late game, because ores are really dense in deep areas. Even 3 fully upgraded virtual hull can't handle them.

5. Reincarnation should unlock new sets for late game, not just early-mid game.

Currently, reincarnation unlocks 4 sets, 2 for early game, and 2 for mid game. For late game, virtual set is better than gem set, in all aspects (except price).

It would be super cool to have a super late game set unlocked from reincarnation, maybe technomancer set?

It seems there are 3 sets unlockable from museum. Unfortunately, museum is reset on reincarnation, so they are useless. There should be an upgrade to keep museum intact on reincarnation.

It's strange there are no unlockable misc parts, there should be some, unlocked either by research or reincarnation.

6. Previews, mainly for 2 things:

6-1. Reincarnation tree, I really need to have a look at the reincarnation tree to know the cost of the next big upgrade, but without reincarnating. Currently this needs to be done with save exports and imports.

6-2. Drill parts stats, I need to know when I could upgrade and replace my drill parts.

What does prestige do? Right now I can't see any effect from prestige.

Nice! I've reached the end of the jam version.

I wonder whether there will be further content or a remake of this.

I opened its world.smp and it says seed is 27220. I'm playing v0.8.4

I'm stuck at 1e11 iridium and it grinds to a halt. There seems to be no upgrade that I can afford in a reasonable amount of time. Am I missing something?

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How do I find water? I can't find any water in the game, and the water recipe tells me that I need water to make more.

Edit: I've generated another world and it has water. Seems it's the map generator being unfriendly and not giving me any water. I think this needs to be fixed by forcing mapgen to generate some water near the starting point.

Interesting game, but gameplay is frustrating. The 'falling dice wreck a hole' thing doesn't contribute anything to the game and only makes it more frustrating. Even if the wrecking hole mechanism is not removed, the cost for fixing holes should stay constant, instead of increasing over uses.

Exploding sixes is the main cause of falling dices, and secondary exploding dices flying out of control is devastating. The upgrade 'extra dice' will cause the game to lose more easily, and therefore is actually a downgrade. It should be reversed, and will become a powerful upgrade, by limiting the destruction caused by exploding six.

Nice concept, but needs balancing.

Blacksmiths and temples are way too powerful, especially when spammed everywhere. These scale linearly and then multiplies with workers, which means total production is square of workers. This is way too powerful. Maybe they could be changed to research building, and you buy researches to power up workers.

Also, due to the central limit theorem, the factor of dice soon becomes irrelevant, when you have many more workers.

Umm, I'm using a laptop and this game lags really badly from the beginning. I'm interested but can't play because of lag.

Very cool game. I have bought all the upgrades in the game. The save didn't work, but it's short enough to be finished in one session.

When near the end game I started experiencing some lag.

Some thoughts:

1. The expand grid upgrade makes the grid way too large, which makes the late game laggy. If the game is to be developed further, then this certainly needs some nerf. Simulating pixel by pixel means that this game can't go too far in the incremental path.

The tick upgrade also contributes to lag. It's much less powerful than the expand grid, but it multiplys with size.

2.Perhaps make the basic elements not infinite, but constantly generated by a source, that can be upgraded later?

This will certainly make the game more difficult, so the in game wiki needs to be finished. The player should be able to view all reactions that have been triggered. If this is not possible, then let the player view recipes of elements that hve ever been collected.

3-1. Grid compression

Instead of having more pixels, we can have each pixel represent more matter. Changing this requires clearing the grid.

Some later upgrade could allow auto collecting when clearing the grid.

3-2. Reaction frequency

Some reactions are slow, and take time to happen. This upgarde will make the reactions more frequent. This can improve production without causing much more lag.

This should be upgraded for each element separately, usually costing its reaction product (but lava emitting fire should cost lava to upgrade, not fire)

4. Some stuctures in the grid?

Automation certainly would be nice. For automation, we need pixels for these purposes:

4-0. Devices, which are special pixels that are not simple elements. They stay in place and are not affected by gravity, and don't react under usual conditions. It could be possible (but difficult to program) to have multi-pixel devices.

Devices are not created from reactions. Instead, they are bought from shop (or created in crafting), with price scaling or costing a constant price.

Some special elements could react with the devices and require special handling. It will become challenging to automate production of these elements. However, the player should eventually get access to more advanced devices to properly handle them.

4-1. Inventory interaction, both placing elements from inventory, and collecting elements from grid into inventory.

4-2. Walls, for keeping elements in place, and directing liquid and gas flow.

4-3. Fountains. These are not necessary for automation, but can be interesting to have.

Fountains generate elements when in inventory (as mentioned in #2), and when needed, can be placed in the grid and directly place the elements in the grid.

It should be an upgrade to be able to place fountains in the grid.

If #3-1(Grid compression) in implemented, then the fountain's emitting speed will need to be reduced by the compressing power, as each pixel contains more elements.

The player could get access to fountains for more advanced elements at later stages. For example, lightning could allow blue fire generation.

Actually, inventory interaction and walls are already enough for basic automation.

For example, have dirt dropped from a high place, let it react with fire during the drop, and collect it at the bottom. Whether it has reacted or not, it will go into inventory, and automatically sorted there. Then drop the stone into a cauldron with lava. The stone will slowly melt into lava, and the lava will overflow into another collector.

It is floating point imprecision, that caused the buy max cost to be higher than your money, while it should be lower. Float numbers are not very good for incremental games.

Games should either avoid designs sensitive to float imprecision, or use some custom notations instead.

But this is just a jam game, so there is no time to consider this kind of thing.

Interesting game. Balancing is ok, but QoL needs some work. I think it's good enough for a jam game.

I have encountered 2 problems when playing:

1. Different units of cash cause confusion

This game switches between 2 units of cash: 1\$=100c

This caused some confusion for me when starting. It soon becomes irrelevant when I have more money.

This game have multiple tiers of items, and need to be crafted in different amounts. Fortunately, the game has percentage ratio for bulk buy. However, this also has problems: 10% is too small, and max all is too big for some items.

I think a 50% option should be good enough.

I even once accidentally used up all my phliosopher stones with a misclick at buy max. This caused my progress to slow down a lot, especially since the phliosopher stone is a static layer, and I can't easily earn it back. Without the upgrades I was supposed to buy, it's tedious for me to grind back to the spot where I could earn more prestige points. This caused a lot of frustruation for me.

I think the 50% is still useful for this case: have it spend at most 50% of prestige points when buying multiple levels. This will be convenient, and also without the problem of misclick.

Because a big thruster on your ship would look cooler than many small thrusters everywhere.

Though I think what we need is not a bigger thruster, it is a modular thruster that can be expanded, and can be as large as you want, if you can support its energy requirements.

I've noticed another problem: with the toggle resource display option, it's difficult to tell whether you had it toggled on or off, when there is no resource in sight. This could cause confusion when the player enters a new area, when there is resource but he turned it off.

I think there should be a small icon that shows whether the resource display is turned on. This icon should have a tooltip to let the player know what it does.

I've reached the endgame of this game: Infinity of research points without going out the starting planet in a new universe.

I was playing offline version v0.21.1 . I haven't played higher versions yet, but most of these problems probably still exist.

I've encountered a few problems:

1. Megastructure stage: Terraforming planets for Atom Manipulators or Subatomic Reactors cost way more energy than they should

Normally terraforming planets for a specfic building is equivalent to have X buildings of that level, without any bonus from CBDs. X is the surface area of the planet.

For these two buildings, terraforming for them not only increases the speed of processing by X, but also increases the energy cost by X. X is usually very large, around 10M or even higher. This makes terraforming for these two buildings unusable, as the energy cost is prohibitively high, even with late game megastructures. Even refining stone becomes difficult with 10Mx energy cost.

If you build X of them instead, you will process X times faster than a single building, while consuming the same amount of energy for the same amount of material. If you do put X times more materials into them, you will spend X times more energy.

2. Dimensional stage: Infinite research multiplier way too OP

In my savefile, I increased this factor to 6. This is immensely OP, as I could reach infinity research points on my starting planet, with just 1 miner, 1 storage, 1 generator and 1 lab, all upgraded to very high levels. These buildings are level 1100, and the lab infinite research is level 369. At this level, the buildings cost ~1e130 creds. This makes my lab go over 1.8e308, and creates several NaN issues LOL

While the infinite research itself alone won't break the game, it multiplies with building levels and CBD bonuses, which does break the game.

3. Also dimensional stage: Probe points and Dimensional Remnants

According to the release notes, this seems to be nerfed, so might no longer grow broken.

I had another run, and I have unlocked most of the recipes before accidentally dying.

The run lasted 1 year and 2 months ingame, and I have solved all of the areas except the tier 2 woods. I have also gathered a lot of materials, and here are some things I noticed:

Something dead is surely overabundant, I have about 3000 of them when I died.

Something epiphemeral is scarce until late game, and then you get many bats to kill. I think this is by design.

Something umbral is rather scarce, and this severely limits the use of frost potions. Potion of rust is almost taking all of my umbral essence, and thus frost potion becomes almost useless.

I haven't figured out how to use potion of chaos. I just can't think of a situation that I need the effect of a random potion, and this potion is not cheap enough for me to try in large amounts to get the desired potion effect. Perhaps it's used to use the effects of locked recipes?

I've unlocked homeward crystal, rift potion and potion of frozen time. In theory, these 3 items could save from any danger, but I wasn't careful with my HP and got killed by a trap.

Collecting items indeed becomes tedious late game. I think it does need some work, either auto collection of some sort, or resource compression, and ideally both.

I have some new thoughts about auto collection: autocollect with queued action. With a given amount of movement steps, the game marks all items reachable in X steps and in sight. Then the character moves to each item and collect them.

I'm going to wait for the next update, and play again when I get to disable permadeath.

A few months? I certainly can't wait for the new version, so I guess I'll play the current version more and also die a few more times LOL

Another important thing is savefile compatibility. If you add the multiple life system, pls make it avaliable for old saves.

This game really has quite some potential to become a successful rougelike game, perhaps as successful as Noita.

This game isn't really a rougelike yet, it is lacking a core mechanism: limited resources. I could think of 2 limitations: Either limit days, or limit the amount of locations, or perhaps limit both.

Location limit: After exploring this number of locations, no more locations will be provided by the bartender, until you complete his quest, which provides another limited supply of locations.

Time limit: Starting from some point (like day 20), the bartender asks you to pay him rent every some time (in the form of "something that glitters", can have debt but must pay off the rent to get more locations) , and this amount increases gradually to make time a limited resource. This way rent acts like the hunger mechanism of other rougelikes, making time a limited resource. Completing quests for him will reduce this amount by some, giving you more time to get resources.

Perhaps past some point, this amount no longer grows, or is even completely removed, as the bartender wants you to focus on creating powerful potions for him. This could be simply implemented by adding a constant supply of quests, as long as you complete enough quests, you no longer have to pay rent, and the quests are relatively easy for late game.

If this game is to be converted to a rougelike this way, then it's important to add QoL improvements, like collection convenience.

And of course also a casual mode without rent and permadeath, perhaps customizable when creating a save.

In Noita, the main limiting resource is HP. Methods of regaining lost hp is extremely limited, until you get extremely powerful spells to break out of the main dungeon, and then the player can grind as much resource as he want, allowing a save to be persistent, until the player makes a mistake and dies.

Noita doesn't have ingame option to remove permadeath, instead it's provided by mods. Mods are a good thing to have, many successful games have either a dedicated modding platform, or steam workshop for mods. The only problem is the coding difficulty, but it's rewarding enough to pay off its cost.

1.Large amounts of low value items repetitive to collect

More condensed items are a good solution, but I also like the auto collection. Perhaps we can have some sort of telekinesis potion, that auto collects most simple items within 2 tiles and within sight, and lasts for a duration. It might not work on the core loot of the zones, as this could break balance.

With permadeath players are expected to experience the "refine forest for charcoal" stage quite many times, and this stage needs lots of collection. So this potion should become avaliable shortly after this stage,  maybe this recipe could be included in forest zone loot list.

2.Gardening?

This is mainly about exploring locations, so gardening may not quite fit the theme. However, some items are mainly bought, and can't be reliably found in exploration. These items include food and beverage. Probably these items can be gardened. And gardening is also a good place to go for my 300+ something dead, which is overabundant from refining forests.

3.snakes

For gameplay, I'm okay with the snakes as they currently are. In forests they are very easy to deal with, also easy in farms, but much more difficult in swamps, because fire no longer works. Perhaps I need to freeze them instead. I have completed a few forests, so I'll talk about snakes in forests.

The special loot of forest area is near the path (bag in zone 2, mangrove in zone 3), and the only natural threat is snakes. In the lore, snakes recognize the path as human territory and try to avoid it. In the game however, I have to go off the path very often to avoid snakes. The path is still important because it leads to the  loot, and the open space helps me avoid the snakes. I'm ok with the snake challenge but not the conflict between lore and gameplay.

The casual mode will be really nice, it'll surely improve my gameplay experience a lot. I just wonder how long will I need to wait for it.

For deleting completed locations, I originally thought that this would help reduce UI clutter with lots of locations. Now looking at it, it's somewhat unnecessary, as new locations are abundant, and therefore usually I will only ever visit a location once. I originally thought that I would need to come back to a previous location when I get better equipments, to search it more completely, and it turns out this isn't the case.

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This game is really nice, and burning down whole forests is fun, but the permadeath is frustruating.

Some other roguelike games I've played have options to disable permadeath, like noita(via mods), and wayward(via an option on creating a save). I think a causal mode option when creating a save would be nice, so I don't have to start from scratch if I got killed when exploring something new.

I've only reached the point of being able to mass craft amber potions from burning down forests, then I died in a dungeon.  It seems that homeward potions (in the tech tree) could save me from such danger but I'm way too far from unlocking that.

Edit: I've also noticed another problem: As you play a save for longer, you will have more and more unlocked locations, but it seems there is no way to delete them after completing a location. This will cause the save file to inflate as the player progress. So we should be able to delete a location after completing it (or if it becomes no longer possible to complete).