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Omg, I've been trying to tell myself I'd wait to get this until all the routes are out, but then when I actually saw the early access announcement on here I caved almost immediately! Been anticipating Made Marion for years (I mostly lurk on here so this is my first time leaving a comment on the itch page, but I've been following the Tumblr where I'm more active!) and I'm super excited to finally play it. I'll for sure leave a comment on the main page once I've played Robin's route ˚ʚ♡ɞ˚

I got paid literally just an hour ago so it looks like I'll be able to fit Thorns into my budget for this month >:3 I'll get the game when I get back home later tonight so I can put that coup d'etat with Leo into motion asap, prepare for an equally lengthy ramble over on the Thorns itch page once I've played all the available routes ^^ (✿´꒳`)♡

I've played through every single route in the Thorns demo by now (Sofia's and Leo's scenes were my favorites if I had to choose though), and I am super excited to see how the whole civil war plot shapes up especially since that tension is hinted at throughout Rose! I am for sure going to buy it as soon as my salary comes in, ahahaha! Normally I'd hold out and wait for the full game to be out, but Rose is so good that I know I'm going to cave as soon as my budget allows.

Did you write Rose already knowing that you were going to make a sequel (or at least had the idea for how a sequel would go, even if you weren't sure of it yet)? The endings for Rose set up Thorns so perfectly that I went "...now that I know there's a sequel in development, I wonder if those cliffhangers were intentional."

I know I should probably be asking these questions on the Thorns page and devlog, and they might already be addressed in the comments on there or in the game guides, but I'm trying not to look at those so I don't get spoiled, so I'll ask here:

1. Is there content going into detail about the world Segunda is set in (like, a map of the kingdom so we know where let's say Florentia and Dacre and Tremaine and Suirs etc. are and how big they are relative to each other/a timeline of historical events like the Cousins' War or the only queen being deposed/background on the monarchy of Segunda like how Guillaume's house took power in the first place)? There are lots of little lore tidbits scattered throughout the game and I'd be interested to see more of it :0
2. What is the loveless marriage route going to be like? At first I thought it would be the same as Guillaume's route, but after I played through the demo and saw that it starts completely differently, I'm curious about how different/similar it'll be to the route where MC loves him (or is pretending to). Like, is it possible to eventually fall in love with Guillaume? Do we get the chance to like, separate from him or romance some of the other LIs behind his back if the relationship becomes untenable? I'm also really intrigued by how the fact that the marriage is so obviously loveless is going to affect the rest of the story, even if there will def be similarities like the civil war plotline
3. No need to answer this last one if it's impossible to respond without completely spoiling Thorns, but just how evil (maybe evil isn't the right word, but like, ruthless and manipulative) can we get in the sequel? I know that there are probably boundaries that the characters won't cross (and that you wouldn't be comfortable writing either), but given how the tone of Thorns seems so much darker and how some of the characters (like Leopold, or for that matter Guillaume given how he can't seem to accept when his father's in the wrong, or even the Duchess Parisi tbh) are pretty morally grey, I'm just wondering like...will we get to do things like blackmail and threaten and betray people? Are we going to get the opportunity to straight up kill someone (or have them killed)? Can I Lady Macbeth Guill or Leo into doing horrible things if I'm on their routes and encouraging them to go for the crown? I know that things like gratuitous violence or outright gore probably wouldn't fit the tone of the game, but given how civil war is looming I'm very very very curious to see how far MC can go for the sake of power (or even just plain self-preservation)

aaaaa I rambled long enough, hope i'm not bothering!!! tl;dr i love the rose of segunda and am very excited to finally get my hands on Thorns sometime soon

I've been wanting to play this game for literal years and it was absolutely worth the wait! Long story short: I downloaded the OG demo (as in, side characters had no sprites yet) back when Rose was still in development, lost the file when I switched laptops, then got too busy with uni to play a lot of games. Now that I've a Real Adult Job, I can finally afford to support all the indie devs I follow online, so I've been going through everyone's back catalogue and this was the first game I thought of getting! (For transparency: I bought it on Steam.)

The best part of Rose is the writing, especially the way the characters and the world are so fleshed out. When I realized the story only takes place over 2 weeks, I wondered if the romance would develop believably, so I was pleasantly surprised when none of the routes had any pacing issues - all of the relationships felt that they grew organically, without feeling rushed or contrived for plot convenience. I think it's also the setting that makes this feel realistic - in a modern otome, I don't think I'd find it believable to elope with or marry someone after just 2 weeks. However, Rose is clearly historical, and the writing really gets across how the world of the nobility operates very differently. The story makes clear that the characters are pressured to marry young for pragmatic rather than personal reasons, grow up faster and take on responsibility earlier than we do today, and don't have great family lives. Given all of that, the decision to settle down (or even just up and leave) with a particular love interest always feels like it makes sense for the decisions you made and the way you played MC in that particular playthrough.

It's REALLY hard for me to choose a favorite (which shows you just how good Rose is, since I usually have at least one character I end up solidly disliking) - as in, I stayed up the entire night and went through everyone's routes in one sitting - so I won't go into detail about each one because gushing about everybody would make this ramble even wordier. However, I do want to compliment specific things that stood out to me about the way the F/F romances and the secret romance are handled:
♡ The depiction of the sapphic experience (e.g. the thought you'll grow out of it one day because it's just "practice" for "real" hetero relationships later) was super well done. I love how "coming out"/accepting your queerness is represented as a process that can be conflicting, and also as a personal choice that's not always easy to make in the face of others' expectations. A lot of sapphic romances in fiction tend to be written in such a way that the relationship feels "special" only because it's ~forbidden~ or tend to present coming out as a one time big time realization you're suddenly super certain of, so I'm glad that Rose falls into neither of those traps (something that probably wasn't easy because depicting queer love in historical fiction is a challenge all its own). I think that out of all the ones I've played, Rose is definitely one of the F/F romance games that feels closest to home in that regard.
♡ I love how supportive Frederique is if you're romancing Charlotte or Sofia (especially in Sofia's ending!) - in my experience, it's very relatable to have one "safe" member of your family who you're "out" to even if you're closeted to everyone else in the household, so I was happy seeing that dynamic represented here.
♡ At first I only played the secret route out of curiosity for how it would affect the story and because I liked Frederique as a character, not necessarily because I actually wanted to romance him - in fact, I usually avoid routes of this nature for obvious reasons. I was afraid it would feel shoehorned in for shock value or that it would have a last minute "one of us is actually adopted" plot twist (that second one is a pet peeve of mine since it's a very overdone trope in telenovelas where I'm from), but the devs really committed to the taboo premise, which I admire because it takes guts to really go there. I ended up loving the secret romance much more than I thought I would because the writer shows how complicated their situation is without glossing over or cheapening it. The game takes time to tell us about the unhealthy family dynamics at play here (like siblings being separated too young, discouraged from being affectionate, and growing up isolated from their peers) that led them down that path, but at the same time it never condemns them for it and makes them sympathetic enough to root for. Frederique is so unconditionally loving, and it's clear they've fallen in love because they're each other's only source of support in a very cold family. What I really liked about the portrayal of Frederique is how even if you ignore the secret route completely, and choose to interpret your relationship with him as completely platonic, he consistently looks out for you without any selfish agenda and just wants you to be happy, even if he doesn't necessarily like or agree with your choices. This is honestly the most important thing in any relationship (whether familial or romantic), and it was what led to the secret route winning me over even if I was initially uncomfortable about its implications and hesitant about how it might be executed.
♡ I'm glad the game sufficiently gates the romance (I wouldn't have known Frederique was even an option if I had gone into Rose blind without seeing reviews first) and also gives you several chances to end it very early, for the sake of folks who are uncomfortable with the route.

Something else I liked about Rose was how it doesn't demonize the characters who are meant to be your rivals (a trap lots of romance media fall into). The writing never spells this out, but it clearly shows they're catty because they've grown up in an environment that pits women against each other, and the characterization of them as mean never feels too convenient or forced to create conflict. The game goes a step further by letting you get in on the mean girl act yourself (through choices like sabotaging the tea party or instigating the fight before the concert) - I have never before played a romance game that lets you be that petty, and I loved it. (I swear I don't actually act like that irl.)

The fact that you have to get not just your love interest's approval, but also the king's, added a nice bit of a challenge to what was an otherwise relaxing game, especially if you're on Guillaume's route, because I ended up having to strategize by balancing being myself in private and keeping up the pretty idiot image in public (happy to say I managed to get both without checking the guide!). It was a big part of what made the cutthroat and tense nature of the setting feel more real (even before I played Leo's route and saw just how unstable Segunda actually is). It wasn't an extremely difficult challenge, but the fact that I was on edge constantly toeing the line made me feel that the royal court really is a very dangerous place, even if I wasn't personally at any big risk (yet...I'm pretty sure I'm going to be endangered when I play through Thorns in its entirety).

The only piece of criticism I would have had for this game was that the story could've been longer, to allow for more fleshed out endings, and to better explore and tie up the loose ends of the more complex subplots (for Leopold's route especially, that reveal made me feel like I slipped out of the romance genre and fell into a political thriller AHDPFAKUF). However, right after I finished all the routes, I saw the itch page for Thorns and just had to get the demo. I obviously haven't played the full game yet, but based on the vibe I'm getting so far, if you felt the endings in Rose were a bit rushed or that the tone was too lighthearted for the tense political climate the game hints at, Thorns might be more to your tastes if you want a game that's more plotty and serious even if it's romance-focused.

Just a few rambles...
♡ Leo's name made me giggle because right before I played his route, I was listening to a podcast on the Plantagenets (who are probably much worse than Guillaume's family). From the podcast, I learned that the guy who captured Richard the Lionheart as he was coming home from crusading then handed him over to the Holy Roman Emperor for ransom was also a duke named Leopold. Given that our Leo is canonically planning a coup, I think that's very apt (...I don't suppose we'll get to do something similar if we side with him in Thorns?)

♡ I had great fun with the changeable name. I initially set her name as Mireille not only because it's one of my real names and makes it easy to self-insert, but also because it feels period-appropriate and close enough to the Minette nickname. For that playthrough, I headcanon that the Parisis nicknamed her Minette back when she was first learning to speak and had trouble saying her name properly, so 1) that's why her mom finds it immature and inappropriate for an adult and 2) I imagined Frederique uses it in both an affectionate "I'm your man to the last, I've been here with you since we were little and I'm still here for you now" way, and also as an inside joke between them like "Ahaha, everyone thinks of you as this refined scholarly lady who's great at languages, but I remember how you couldn't even pronounce your own name as a kid uwu"

♡ Because I love chaos, I did a playthrough where I got the king to choose me, but romanced and ultimately accepted Leopold's proposal. (This also gave me my favorite ending - nothing like your fiancé interrupting your engagement announcement to someone else and giving you your ring in full view of the court.) For this run specifically, I named her Isabella and gave her the scholarly + cunning + commanding traits as a reference to a French princess who was married off to Edward II of England by her parents, but had an affair with Roger Mortimer (whose historical reputation feels quite similar to the amoral schemer image people have of Leo in-game) and planned a coup with him that successfully overthrew Edward. You can probably tell whose Thorns route I'm most excited for 👀

♡ If I really had to choose a single favorite route, it would be Leo's. (That said, I might be a bit biased here because out of all the love interests, he's the one who's most similar to my real-life boyfriend, who thankfully does not have a disgraced family and doesn't seem to be plotting to overthrow the government...at least as far as I know). I absolutely adore characters who hate how unfair and even ridiculous society's expectations are after growing up in bad circumstances, but decide to fight to gain the upper hand nonetheless. I also really enjoy romancing LIs who are ruthless and calculating and not always completely moral about achieving what they want, but who are nothing but respectful and loving when it comes to their partner. (I really enjoyed Leo's scenes, both what I saw in Rose and what I've seen so far from the Thorns demo, because that dynamic is fully on display there.) I'm also a sucker for revolutionaries (even if his motives aren't perfectly noble), I swear his route felt like the devs dug around in my brain for my favorite tropes and just got them perfectly.

♡ I know I'm probably missing out on some choices and scenes this way, but I can NEVER bring myself to leave my toothbrush behind 😭

♡ I'm prone to fainting irl so I love how there are so many fainting options - I chose them almost every time AHPFUAIDF (I know Thorns is darker than Rose, but I hope it'll still have some fainting options because they were hilarious)

♡ The art is lovely! I don't think I've ever used an otome game heroine as my profile picture on my socials before, I just loved the art style that much

Overall, I'd highly recommend The Rose of Segunda to anyone who's interested in a historical otome that's relaxing and quick but still has quite a bit of challenge and intrigue, and I'm really looking forward to playing the sequel!