That's alright, it was only a suggestion. You do what you want with your game.

My fav is between Brendan and Kamil so I do hope one of them is among the exclusive bottoms. Having played Barachoda tho I know you like big bottoms too so I guess I can place my trust in you ;)

Hey Chellay,

I finally got a chance to play this new game today and I find the story pretty interesting. I get a bit of Beastar vibe from how the storyline is constructed as it features (what I feel like is going to be) a deeper discussion about the ethical issues of carnivores and herbivores in a furry world setting. I also get a bit of Echo, as you'd have to piece a whole, rather dark story together from fragments in each route. Overall this is pretty interesting and I look forward to how the story unfolds.

As for the nsfw scenes, I was threw off a bit by the scene with Conner. Considering that in the story, the MC and Conner have only met up after they haven't seen each other in years. More so, even after you chose "I don't know" as a response to Conner's advancement, after the sex scene, he still declares you and him are now boyfriends, which feels a bit forced. (I'm guessing that Conner's position is most likely Switch top / vers? Tbh if I go after someone who I had a one-way crush on, I'd ask what position that person prefer first lol...)  

I had a look at the survey results you posted, it had me roll my eyes a bit but I'm not really surprised. We chatted several months back about this issue with bara VNs / games, I think the conclusions still stand: an overwhelming amount of people think all the bigger, buffier dudes have to be dom tops, and the shy little orca has to be the sub bottom. 
I know you will have to take audience's overall preference into consideration, but I do hope that even if you are gonna assign a certain position to each character, you can still give them a bit versatility, so people who don't feel strongly about certain characters due to their positions would still try their routes, instead of avoiding them altogether.

I don't seem to get the hang of edging. I wasn't able to achieve a full edging bar with penis alone, unless I switch to touch just before the edging bar appears to fill it, and then switch back to d. The slow down option don't seem to do anything...?

Anyhoo this game is pretty high quality. Would love to see a doggy style version added later, and perhaps same-sex couple mode? I also remember that the older version of this game had dildo play, but seems it is removed in this version?

Would love a variant where Goro doesn't lose his body hair in the slut route XD.
It's great for a short bara game, the arts are great and the gameplay is simple but smooth.
Small bug when fighting the slimes: cannot choose which enemy to hit when using "preemptive strike"

Can't believe I'm gettin a reply 5 months later lmao. Thx for the update!

Ok I'll give it try and let you know

Save system went haywire after entering the area where there are fire slimes for unknown reason. I died there a few times and reload the save, but afterwards the save option started bugging. Each time I try to save, it reloads the save I'm overwriting

Lastly, the very bottom of the dialogue box is covered by the game window, you can't see how much money you have while you are in the item shop. Adjusting screen resolution and window size don't seem to fix it

And when you start the game, if you press Z or X, there is a chance of causing a bug with the game menu where it no longer responds to your input

I had the same issue too. Also, the system does not save player's key configuration

Thanks for making the changes! I look forward to the future updates

When I said, "you decide how things go", I did not mean it in a literal way where the MC gets to make a decision about everything that's going on in the game, that would indeed be nearly impossible to make. What I meant was, should you choose to play as a dominant MC, your dominance is recognized and respected by the characters in the game. This is totally feasible and it's entirely up to the creator whether they want to write a dominant MC storyline.

And yes, I agree with Chellay on that gay nsfw game devs should make information about what content is in their game public, whether to read it or not is up to the player. 

Thank you!

Wow, thanks for reaching out to them. But just in case, I was talking about Acolytes of the Chrystle.

I have a discord but I haven't accessed it in a while, and I don't know if I still have access to the email, but I'll give it a shot. 

For their game my suggestion is rather simple tho: just start slowly adding bottom scenes / CGs to those masculine characters, namely Gerdalt, Sunflower, Fuco, Donald, and Silverado. I have played other games made by Mysterious Zone and I do not think they have anything against making bottom scenes for masculine characters, but it just so happens that, for this game, they are very imbalanced. As I have mentioned, each of these 5 masc characters already have a decent amount of CGs, all of which are player bottom. So, unless the dev is going to make all of them exclusive top, I think it's a good time to add some bottom scenes for these characters.

I understand where you are coming from. Of course, in real life, even if you are dominant, things frequently don't work your way. But it's a game we are talking about here, it's supposed to be unrealistic, and it should bring the players what they like to see.

It's for sure very logical that, while you are facing bigger monsters like Max, Malcom, or the UFL guys in Garette's route, you don't have much of a saying other than being treated like a bi*ch. But in these cases, the completeness of the storyline is prioritized over players' personal preference, especially that of dom players. I only speak for myself here, but I hardly find any joy in being submissive, not mentioning being subjected to it.

This is not saying that your game is poorly designed, no. Your game is great, but it very much caters toward sub / bottom players. Having a dominant role in the game is kinda pointless... considering that neither of the two love interests allow the player to top / dominate them in any way. The only exceptions are Dalton's two endings, but those are not repeatable, not mentioning to achieve those endings, dom players have to go through a lot of content they don't really like and also cannot avoid. As for Garrette, if I recall corectly, he out right become the player's master upon reaching his endings, which I'm fairly sure is a hard no for any dom player.

This is precisely why I agree with what Chellay said and, as you have mentioned yourself, that many devs are not aware of the fact players do take these position thingys seriously, so it is better to let players know what they can expect, instead of having an angy guy like me ranting about it later. I'm glad to hear that you want to balance it more when writing about Ursus and the content afterwards tho. 

I'd suggest you make something like a character profile in game that documents the characters the player have met and give the player an option / warning that saying these profiles can give potential spoilers about the character's content, so they can choose for themselves whether they want to see it or not. Also, like Chellay suggested, perhaps highlight in your game intro that, currently, the game is more bottom content-oriented, but more top content will be added later.

I actually did get to play your game before and I appreciate you listing out all the kinks, but I think what Chylla was referring to emphasizes more on informing the players "if MC can be in certain position with certain character".
 
Take your game for example, I'd say I would really appreciate it if there could be some sort of mechanisms that prevent / notify players about forced submission scenes, if you choose to play as a dom. A lot of scenes in Dalton's route, like the drug scene with Max and later scenes with Malcom, ignore players' attitude and force you to bottom, and you cannot skip them either because that would result in bad endings. The whole premise of being dominant is that YOU decide how things go, not the other way around, so those compulsory sub scenes can really kill the mood... And I'm not going to start on Garette's route. What's the point of having a dom character when literally every choice is to force you being a sub.

Robin MorningWood also let you pick a position at the beginning, but it does not matter. The game also leans toward player sub since many of the love interests, even vers ones, are dominant. There is also a whole dungeon dedicated to player sub content.
I remember we chatted a while ago when you posted a discussion about top / bottom content, like this one, a few months earlier. There are currently more bara games catered toward bottom players than top players, which makes it even more important for the devs to indicate where their game is leaning, like OIHS did, so the players know what to expect

Every. Bit. Of. This. Is. Yes.

Thank you for posting this to specifically discuss this issue. I myself as a player has been frustrating over this for quite some time now, after I started my journey of playing bara games. 

Take a game that I recently played for example. I asked the dev if there are player top content in their game before I proceeded to download it, because based on the art posted on the game's itch page, the game is largely player bottom content. The dev answered me saying that there is, and they are trying their best to make the amount of top / bottom content balanced. So, I ended up paying on their Patreon and gave that game a shot, and what did I find? 5 out of the 7 (or perhaps 8) interactable characters only have player bottom content (each with about 3-5 CGs already), I was left with only 2 characters with player top content. What's more, these 2 characters are the more androgenous / feminine characters of the game, while the 5 that can top the player are masculine. I was quite upset by that. Not only was there no such balance as the dev claimed to be, but also he had to cram all player top content into a drag queen character and a twink character, which are not really my preferred type. I felt scammed because I wouldn't be paying had I know I won't like it. I think this is exactly why devs should, at least, try to label what's in their game, so the players know what they are in for.

"Visual novels and games, however, tend to make the sex depicted limited to the sex the main character has, and the main character is generally drawn in a way that makes them less attractive to the target audience if they even give them a design to begin with. Because of this, the audience's preferences towards top or bottom content are really pronounced."
---- This part is very true. When the image of an MC is not given, you essentially put a bit of yourself into that MC to complete it. That's why for many people who prefer to play as exclusive top or bottom, it matters quite a lot. Not mentioning that, for games like LD, your top / bottom & dom / sub status can affect how the story progresses.

I just had the chance to play ver 0.2.6. I honestly felt that the "make it equal" statement is... more than a bit far from the truth lol.

The game itself is still great. I like the storyline and the music. But for real, I personally think the top / bottom scene ratio needs some actual adjustment.
- Absolutely no player top scene with Gerdalt, Sunflower, Fuco, and Donald? I mean C'MON...
- The only player top scenes are with androgenous / feminine characters, Prissy and perhaps Chance. Well, I personally do not think attributing all bottom content to one specific body type is the way to go.

I know I may come off as a bit irritated, but these are my honest feedback. This is YOUR game, it's totally fine if you want to make it based on your own liking and make it, say, an entirely player bottom game. But I think it's important to keep that info transparent, so the audience know what they are in for.

And, you felt the need to 'casually' insert yourself while I was being kinda serious because...? You should read the room better than I did, right?

There is, objectively, more player bottom content in this game than player top content. I was implying to the dev, if he could perhaps make Maddox an option for both top and bottom players. Then I saw your comment which basically says "all for me, but not you" and two 'casual' down votes? I'm entitled to be annoyed. And idc how others read this.

So I suggest you start acting unbothered and leave this convo here. It's no good for either of us.

A slave camp storyline, 3+ sexual gears catered to bottoms / sub bottoms, 3 males characters each with a top scene but no bottom scene, and you still feel the need to chime in me talking to the dev about my expectation...? Dang.

Eh? So Maddox is gonna be a total top? Please no!

Yeah, I was not trying to disagree with you on that line or anything. This was simply my observation based on my experience with bara art works, be it VNs, manga, or doujinshi.

ExAc is great, especially with the implementation of Richard and Dwayne's routes now. Their big guys, like Dozer and Chester, also have bottom scenes. So I really appreciate Dyne's effort to balance things out. The other two games I have mentioned, LD and RM, do fell quite a bit into this "big guy ~= dom top" category though. LD features more player bottom scenes in general, meanwhile some of these bottom scenes do not have an equivalent top scene. Same thing for RM, way more player bottom / submissive scenes. Astaroth's full route is dedicated to sub players meanwhile there is no such equivalent for top players.

That being said, these are still amazing games. I support these projects not only for the smut but also for their art, their writing, and many other things they have to offer. But you know, when you pay the same price as other subscribers but get perhaps 2/3 or even only half of the joy, it's not exactly a good feeling. So guess I was indeed a bit frustrated with it.

I'll look out for the projects you mentioned. Thx for suggesting them.

Read the whole essay and I agree with you on most points you've made. "Bara" to me means exactly what you described: works that show homoeroticism about traditionally / stereotypically masculine men. "Yaoi", on the other hand, is more about Japanese BL, which features homoeroticism between male characters who, visually, appear to be more feminine / gender neutral. Hence, to summarize, the two are mainly differentiated by the visual of the characters, although both depict m/m content.

I'd like to add a bit of my own thoughts / complaints to this discussion, which is about how bara games usually present the sexuality of their characters. I wanted to talk about this cuz I saw you said in the middle of your essay that "... And most importantly, the big guy gets to bottom for the short guy. "

The TL;DR of my take on this issue is: The representation of "big guys can be bottoms" is still pretty lacking, considering how many projects this community has already produced. 

I have been a rather dedicated bara game player for a few years now, ever since I first discovered Coming Out on Top. From there on, I have constantly been searching for new projects of this kind where they feature a good amount of plot along with nsfw smut. Human Cargo, Extracurricular Activities, Lustful Desires, Robin Morningwood, etc etc etc, and many Japanese ones and Chinese ones. The majority of these works I have played already feature more bottom content than top content (as in, the player being the bottom / top). Moreover, the big guys in these games are usually dominant tops / vers tops, seldom do you see the opposite case. Small on Top is one of the few exceptions I have encountered. 

This is not necessarily something wrong, not at all. People like what they like. To the many players out there who enjoy playing as a sub bottom in these games, this works out perfectly well for them. But still, like what @chellaytiger mentioned above about the non-con, toxic masculinity featured in bara games, I think such collective, ongoing, overwhelming representation of big guys being the more dominant, more "top-ish" ones in a relationship, in and of itself, is an amplification of such stereotype (precisely why I also don't enjoy size difference arts much, lol). Also, by emphasizing the assertiveness of big-guy characters, it, in a degree, takes that away from the smaller guy, which is usually your MC. I don't know about other players, but to me, that does not feel great. It's kinda the feeling of knowing you cannot make male Shep and Vega a thing in ME3, or whenever a certain good-looking character is not gay-romancable in a predominantly str8 game. 

Is there no player top option with Frank or Maddox? If not, is there a possibility that they will be implemented in future? 

Good to know! Thx for the reply

May I know if the nsfw content of this game feature only / predominantly player bottom content now, judging from the gifs on this page? It's been like a year and a half since I last tried it. Thx!

I was a subscriber of yours on Patreon once but looks like it was abandoned. If you happen to see this may I know if you are still gonna keep your projects updated? Thanks

Thanks for the response, will be looking forward to that! It's been waaaaaaay too long

Hello Dev!

I saw a gameplay vid of your game on Ytb and I was intrigued by the art style and the gameplay, so here I am. :P

I'm wondering, would you guys ever consider making a male protag? Dunno if this has been asked before, so apologies if you have already answered this before!

Guess I'm the only one still checking..

Is there currently any player top scene in the demo? I saw the ninetail one but it's essentially still player bottom

This game was one of my all-time-favs so it's great to see it on itch now! 

I seriously wished there could be more bara games like this one that combines bara content with side-scrolling fighting, but there wasn't so SF stays unchallenged!

Good to know and I look forward to it!

Hello Dev.

I loved the demo! For the first release it already looks very polished and fun. Great job!

I'm also curious about the reputation stat and what you plan to do with it. I hope that, for each type of enemy, there could be content for both negative and positive reputations. For instance, I noticed that choosing to dominate the bandit decreases their affinity with MC, and submitting / bottoming increases it. I can imagine what high affinity with bandits can do (based on my experience with Lustful Desire :p), but I hope having "hate" relationship with them won't necessarily lock my top MC out of any future content with them.

The demo says the full game would be released March 2022, is there any news from the devs

Hm. Apparently not. Alright

I wonder if the dev is still active...? It's like they published all three projects all at once then just vanished. Neither was there a patreon or twitter link for their content

This project is looking great and I loved the progress you have already made! I really like that the character's behavior can change based on the player's attitude (I loved Rylan's sub scenes a lot!). Would definitely wait for more

I do have some small issues to report. I played on PC, and during several scenes the game seem to slowdown significantly for some reason. Like during the character creation part, the choices / options take several seconds to become highlighted after I moved my cursor on them. Same thing during the cable connection puzzle, each click takes several seconds to respond. Dunno if it's due to my laptop tho.

One side note I forgot to add: I also played your other two games, and I think it would definitely be better if you make your game more interactive, like including more choices, having event triggers that check if certain requirements are met, etc, instead of making it very linear and mainly text-reading. But I mean, this game is still early in dev so no rush :p