Post by Annogiemouse in Noob question and comments so far

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If you can, I recommend using the collar to kill one last boss before you start a new run. If you have a spare water or two, maybe collar, end the day, and collar again before using the gem. It'll net you another 2-4 points.

Thunderbolt can be a big help against stuff like the Minotaur, Ogre Commander, and Avian, but the mana consumption is pretty taxing early and I'd recommend scrounging up the points for a starter slime instead.

While technically free to learn, Fire can be great since it allows you to get the star metals in the bandit and refugee camps without needing to get/keep Charlotte out of jail(although leaving her in jail delays Fire II, which is needed in the underwater sections). More importantly: it gives you the option to get those star metals on day 1 and hit the level 5 workshop milestone early.

Water Skin speeds up the engagement ring and stolen food quests for early leveling and makes the bandit leader bounty easier as a possible alternative to the Ogre Commander.

Given the hints to your playstyle in this thread so far, you might enjoy starting with Desmond's proficiency skills if you've learnt any.

Typical_Name164 days ago (1 edit)

I already restarted earlier with +3 ATK/MATK, +3 DEF/MDEF, +3 AGI/LUK, and +2 bombs. Damn, I should have thought of your idea, I had several holy waters left. Anyways, I breezed past the first few days but as of Day 10, I am currently stuck trying to beat one of the Young Avian, Ogre Commander, Bandit Leader, or Reiner.

Keeping Charlotte out of jail only takes one evening, that doesn't seem like that big of a burden to me. Also, how are you getting to the refugee camp on day 1? It doesn't open until you get one of the bounties, which I'm pretty sure you need to have finished the spider quests to get. And where are you finding five star metals at this point in the game? I know of two that I can get on Day 1 (in the hole in the forest with the mushrooms, and to the north past the goblins and stuff), and a third that I can theoretically get on Day 2 (with the spiders you have to kill in the following quest after you kill the queen).

Hrrm, Desmond teaches the item skills, I thought? I try to avoid using consumables as much as possible, so I don't know how much mileage I'll get out of him...

WoFlhouse164 days ago (1 edit)

The implication here is that you use the collar to beat one of the bosses, which isn't a bad idea, necessarily. 4 Corruption = 8 days, and at least on a standard run it's rather unlikely that you'll manage to clear Forest of Danger on Day 9 (at least on Nightmare), and the extras that come with the refugee camp and clearing the quest early on are arguably worth it.

That said, I'm pretty sure beating the Ogre Commander w/o Collar on Day 1 is still in the realm of possibility with NG+ bonuses, though that would rely on a different loadout, favorable RNG, and perhaps more points to spread around for Light or more preferably Storm.

Annogiemouse164 days ago

I think that one might require yakety-saxing your way through the bandit tunnel for the poison coating, a bunch of mana stones, a slime companion, thunderbolt and lightning blade.

WoFlhouse164 days ago (2 edits)

Nah, I think you could theoretically get it done with Pierce, using an Energy Potion or two and praying to RNGesus that Tactical Advantage always works. Might work out once every 20-50 fights? Not saying it would be fun, just possible. Ed: Though now that you mention it, Lightning Sword would be a good option for TA without constantly draining your MP. Pretty sure you could handle the goblin even if it outspeeds you, too.

Ed 2: Nevermind, at least if I'm trying to limit myself to 46 score using Lightning Sword seems a bit rough. Not entirely without merit, but rough nonetheless, as there's really only 14 points to work with afterward (+3 AGI is necessary for outspeeding the commander).

Annogiemouse164 days ago

That run ended at 30/34 corruption and enough gold for holy water, I'm operating under a 50 point budget assumption. Run 2 is probably going to end with a higher score anyway.

Could it be an idea to +2 the AGI, use a vitality potion after the duels, kill the Goblin Shaman first for Albrecht's ring and the level 2 stat increase before going Ogre Commander?

WoFlhouse164 days ago

I tried noodling around with a few different builds, but at least from what I was seeing it's hard to reconcile the skills needed for Goblin Shaman vs. Ogre Commander while staying within 50 Score and having Lightning Sword, at least in Nightmare. Going over it, I still think your best bet for beating the Commander Day 1 within 50 Score is going to be +3 ATK and Storm, which should let you drop the AGI requirement, allowing you to potentially go with +3 DEF (helps with dueling Quentin, though you can still lose with low damage rolls) and Slash/Pierce, +15 HP/MP, or Fire for extra area access.

In this scenario Slash makes it possible to beat the Goblin Shaman, but only if he brainfarts and attacks you (once, missing on a TA dodge) rather than casting Fire (twice), whereas Pierce lets you deal 40~50 more damage per critical hit to the Ogre Commander (at Lvl 1, anyway), and Fire gives you access to more materials and thus a higher potential max MP.

Of course, any way you slice it beating OC on Day 1 w/o Collar is going to require some measure of luck even if you are pulling out all the stops with skill loadout. Speaking from experience, there, as I've had that bastard hit me more than my fair share of times through both Tactical Advantage and Blindness.

Annogiemouse164 days ago

Pretty much the collar for the bounty. There's a case to be made for just doing everything normally(with maybe a collar use on whiteoak to get Aura through act 1 faster). You ideally want to complete the festival of greed before day 30 though, and the combination of its bounty, giant's bone, area unlock, bonus salary, and exp trickle are a really solid way to speed up your run.

The hp/mp reset combined with fire, NG+ stats, and level 2 should also be enough for Goblin Shaman IIRC(not sure if this relied on RNG or Water Skin though)

Central forest + bandit camp(sneak through the tunnel to get behind the bandit leader) + North forest Scorpion cave + refugee camp... ah right, I suppose the Northern mines would require a day 2.

It's just one day, true. It's still enough of a waste that I generally choose to either pay up or wait since getting those early equipment upgrades is so impactful. Allied npcs(slime doesn't count, slime MVP) on nightmare are largely useless except as meatshields and buff monkeys and you should be able to clean everything up to the minotaur with just John and Paul by the time Charlotte gets out of jail.

If you've switched to avoiding consumables, disregard what I said on those. I thought you were still doing a mostly pure run where the alchemist discount was treated as a necessary sacrifice and consumables were used for certain bosses.

Typical_Name164 days ago

Hrrm, even getting to the festival by Day 30 will be tough. Currently it's Day 18 and I'm attempting to take out the Low-Demon (doing this prior to the Young Avian, Ogre Commander, and Bandit Leader may not be plausible, I'm not sure what the intended order is).

I was able to take out the goblin shaman fairly early, but I don't think it was Day 2 (I remember having to at least learn Fire first, and I think I got at least one equipment upgrade). That'd be pretty impressive without Water Skin.

Last time I tried, I can't even take on the regular bandits from behind, which I believe I would need to do to get through the tunnel (could be mistaken). I think I need Thunderbolt first before I have any hope of taking on them or the Ogre Commander, which I should be able to get now (trying to take on the Low-Demon first).

As it happens, Charlotte is a very important buff monkey, since she's the one with Heat Up, which makes everyone else a lot more useful.

In general I try to avoid using consumables unless I have a specific need for them, since I might need them later. For my New Game + run, I intend on going 0 Lewdness and ideally no mental changes.

WoFlhouse164 days ago

You don't need to use a bomb to get through the tunnel, the Forest Bandit mob at the "normal" entrance is slow enough to walk around (just have to be a little wary of the timing with the bandits directly below), and the bandit leader is likewise slow enough to lure into the table that's blocked with a chair, which makes getting around him trivial.

Typical_Name164 days ago

Oh, that's clever. So that leaves me at four Star Metals, what's the fifth?

WoFlhouse164 days ago (1 edit)

As Annogiemouse mentioned, the four "immediately" accessible Star Metals are in the Central Forest, Northern Forest, Bandit Hut, and Refugee Camp. Day 2 (assuming you became an adventurer, anyway) gives you access to the Northern Mine, and after starting Spider Cleanup you can get the Star Metal there.

Annogiemouse164 days ago

Tunnel does not require combat if you have Fire(which you should have if you've unlocked the south forest). Simply wait at the edge of the bottom right bandits' 4-tile aggro radius and rush from the vine to the bed once they look down. Apparently you don't need the tunnel, but I'm telling you anyway.

Lack of Charlotte when Aura has NG+ stats mostly means a delay on the Minotaur and Low-Demon since you should be able to kill the Slime and Young Spider Queen without her. Being a lower level doesn't affect the strength of her Heat Up either, just that of her Fire.

As a tip, the room unlocks do not count as mental changes. Free -3 corruption in the outer chamber without if affecting your score.

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