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Okay wanna thank you again for responding so thoroughly. I so desperately want to actually converse about this subject, and it really does require various essays back and forth to actually delve into in a meaningful way. I’m also gunna break it up bc I find that very helpful. My bullets are not following yours, since I’m gunna condense some stuff we already agree on. Note, I notice you mentioning a lot of the points as not seeing what I would be responding to in the other manifestos, I wanna clarify that this was my regular cozy games thoughts! If there had been zero manifestos about cozy games, I still would have written this same thing! It’s like, my main game dev manifesto at any given time haha. It was awkward that one of the highest up manifestos was also very the opposite and made it seem very pointed

What we agree on:

1. Games made for the purpose of being positive and hopeful should exist along with all other expressions of emotion First I wanna talk about the issue that we’re simultaneously having to respond to a lot of different discussions at once. As in, if there’s a timeline of discourse, my manifesto addresses both someone who doesn’t even think calming games should exist, all the way to our more nuanced discussions of what exact game features are both ethical and calming. We obviously seem to align much further on the line, so any of my points arguing for the concept of cozy itself to be allowed aren’t necessary for this discussion, and honestly I do regret focusing so much on that initial concept, or at least, I should have written two pieces. One addressing how we critique, and another specifically for the other segment completely shutting it down.
2. The concept that we shouldn’t blindly adapt past games/ tropes/ modern societal structures without examining the purpose or messaging it inflicts. We may disagree on specifics of implementation, or what concepts should always be subverted and how. 100% agree that a game that you feel is endorsing capitalism or fascism is not comforting or cozy

1. We both agree that these ideas have been implemented elsewhere, to various levels of success. This one is one we align on, but I feel like a lot of other good faith takes I see seem to be unaware of. I’ve seen cozy games takes where all their suggested better features are definitely included in other games, or in the game they are critiquing. Though you gave good examples of how that may not be because they didn’t play it, but because the interpretation was different. Also not any authors fault for not knowing a games exists or a feature, just that I would love to see more discussion that did know and focus on those.

Further discussion:

1. I don’t want to harp too much on my perception of cozy games discourse, because I think I get easily distracted from actually furthering the discussion. I’ll say that I do not perceive many anti cozy games posts as wanting to improve the genre, but being against it entirely. My perception reading yours was not like that, though I still perceived it as generally being against the group as a whole, or being associated with it (which you explained valid personal reasons for!). I think the reason I want to step away from that, is that in my experience with the community of cozy devs, every one of them that I’ve met agrees with all the critique and wants to improve it. We just may be better or worse at that implementation, or even more or less well read about the subjects. But I do subjectively perceive the discussion to usually sound like “These people aren’t trying to subvert this, and they don’t align with my ethics”, instead of “This game attempted, but did not successfully subvert this”. The purpose of that difference is that if we understand most cozy devs already have these ideas and are trying them, then we can argue about how to do that.

I think this is where the difference between something like cozy games, and something like FPSes are different. FPS games as a genre are the establishment. Cozy games are almost entirely indie right now, at most, third party, and then some smaller AAA. For perspective, actually top end AAA games tend to have teams of 500+ to 1000+ people. A bunch of them were legit funded by the US military. There are great examples too! But people generally separate it into AAA status quo, and indie subversions. The major examples of cozy games are almost all attempting to subvert something, probably due to the genre coming up itself as a response to the industry. So I think a harsh general statement instead should be “Cozy games want to be anti-capitalist (or other themes), but fail at it in execution”. I’m definitely aware that this specific argument is splitting hairs and getting way too specific in directing critique, just that I do think it’s a more productive place to start from if we acknowledge that most cozy devs I’ve met are already aligned in trying to subvert, but as a collective haven’t had enough actionable critique and discourse about specifics. Trying to convince devs to worry about this content isn’t I think a helpful topic, since pretty much all of them already thing this, but it’s more that our collective imagination or even just game design skills are lacking in execution. So instead we argue “The way you are trying to do this isn’t working”

“Show me the person who said that comforting games should not exist. “ It’s definitely possible that I misinterpreted various critiques, hard to say for sure. Also hard given the usual brevity of takes on shortform spaces like Bluesky. As for manifestos, it’s hard for me to be able to tell if a declarative statement is meant to be more extreme than their actual belief. With yours, the title was “kill cozy games”, but I was easily able to tell from the contents that you meant “Kill the type of cozy game I describe here”. Throughout my long time as a dev I’ve seen a lot of really directed anger at the concept of a cozy game altogether. I ignore the ones from people I’m not aligned with at all, but I’ve also seen a lot from people who are my peers in indie games, specifically calling them twee and devoid of substance as a genre. Sorry, I notice I’m talking in circles around this point, because I agree with you that you can make a general statement like “cozy games need to stop making me cut down forests”. I guess I’ll just say that has been my perception in game dev circles. It’s possible we’re also seeing different stuff! I’ve legit read basically every Cozy games take imaginable at this point, and the ones I’m picturing could have different context from the ones you are picturing. 

"That said, I have not personally seen a single jam manifesto which has railed against safety railings and content warnings. Could you point me to them, if you have seen them? "

I haven’t either! I realize that my manifesto came across as reactionary to the jam, genuinely I was just writing about my longstanding thoughts and reactions from years in the space. There’s currently a lot of discourse over content warnings and triggers, not even just in games. One of my fav creators Princess Weekes had a vid about it just recently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcb6GNvFB7Q&t=29s

Mainly in my own spaces, the discourse revolves around the need for sustainable emotional energy and safety, vs. trying to push against the type of people who ignore the news so that they don’t have to actually do anything, and people who are doing both for different topics. 

Details:

At the point where we start talking about fascism, I think we start branching into different ethos’s and ideas of implementation! -Imagine a game about running a shop in a post-racial cleansing world where everyone is white and able-bodied. The creator could say, "I just wanted to make a make similar to my life, but with a lot of the traumas of racial cleansing removed." 

I agree with this, I think it’s going to be specific to implementation and intent. Fantasy generally has an issue of what it chooses to ground and what it doesn’t, and how. I think, if certain bad things are kept, that they be used for commentary and subversion.

I completely agree with your thoughts on why you want to make a game wholly removed from the issues we live with right now. I think you’re accurate in how you would create a game that idealizes what could be! My disagreement is that all cozy games should go that direction. I think it’s important for hopeful content to have a diversity of range in what parts they imagine better. Like, sometimes I need art that shows me what a perfect system/dynamic/relationship is. Sometimes I need art that shows me how to survive in the life I’m living or this exact day and these exact decisions. There’s also absolutely times in my life when either of those would hit better or worse. To be fair, I don’t include diversity in this, and that may be contradictory. Maybe because even in the least realistically diverse places, there’s still waaaaay more diversity than the average game has, but also because in all the games I can think of with it, it is NOT being used to actually talk about that topic. Like, a painful subject of reality should have a purpose. Now implementation of that is definitely way trickier. For example, Pokopia’s ethos is that unfortunately, humans ruined the planet and left, it’s super clear that that part is objectively terrible and the narrative admonishes it. Your role (in the intended narrative), is to be someone who can fix the environment, work as a community, for all the “animals” left behind. The catharsis is in this world without humans, and being able to heal the earth. That being said, Pokopia has a LOT of issues with implementation, specifically in the housing feature, and the ability to whole ass terraform places back to cities. But I think the initial concept is a valid method of hope. But again, we’re not determining what the best most ideal single game vision would be, we’re considering the range of what is needed to have a real message of hope without contradicting itself. I think the worst part for me is where a character says in earnest “the humans will be so proud of us for building it back up”. Like bro NOOO I did not do anything for those guys, I wanted squirtle to have wetlands again! One point in it’s favor is that it has various pokemon saying they DON’T want the humans back, but I wish that was more common. Actually I think we align via “Showing a game where capitalism exists but does not cause trauma propagates fascist values. It propagates the fascist lie that capitalism can exist without violence and suffering. “

I think if we include these realities, that we should comment or subvert them. I agree that if I am playing a game, and these concepts come up unquestioned, it impacts my enjoyment of that game heavily.

I hugely agree with games being majorily white, skinny and able bodied. It’s a huge huge peeve of mine given I made a diverse game and it was NOT hard. Like, making fat bodies and even a whole character creator with fat bodies was really easy, and I am faaaar from well learned in game making. I do find a lot of character creators and npc casts are becoming more diverse, though somehow STILL leave out body size diversity. It’s honestly bizarre to me. –Cottagecore and the desire to escape into an imaginary "unspoiled wilderness", only to tame it, relies on presupposing both Indigenous genocide and invisible labour. 

I’ve thought a lot about this one! I realized in a chat today with a friend, that I may be projecting my idea of cottage core on others. In my head, and in the niche of content I see, the idea is rewilding. Like, you’re absolutely right that the other side of it is going to a place they deem “new” and then building a life there are using the resources. I honestly forgot that dynamic, as in my real life I normally only encounter nature lovers seeking to rewild a parking lot or wherever.

The fantasy for me is meant to be subsisting on just what you and your community (community being unconditional to the rights of all humans, not chosen community) need, and leaving the rest to the beauty of nature. Having said that I TOTALLY agree that the actual implementation contradicts that massively a lot of the time. With the pokopia example, and with a LOT of sims that let you go out and chop down as many trees and pick as many flowers as you want. Like 100% agree that’s an issue. I also could be wrong assuming most people have the same “cottagecore” fantasy I have. I got very into native plant gardening recently, and the ethos of rewilding areas, which is pretty niche. I do think our art done correctly could direct someone’s love of nature in that direction as opposed to “take control of nature and do whatever you want with it” thing. -”I could see the value in a cozy game where, for example, the player unionises  or begins in a union and thus contends with capitalism, but from the perspective of fantasizing about how one can improve or have a cozy scenario. But I want the wealth accumulation itself to not exist as a desirable mechanic in a game like that. “

Totally agree with this, I think too much anti capitalist fantasy is about being able to BE the billionaire, even if that involves being pushed to choose to do good things with that wealth. I want to see it as either “this is an example of the system we should have” or yeah like unionizing etc.

“I agree with those critiques of Stardew Valley. I also think that the entire concept of Stardew Valley is also a fascist propaganda, in the sense that it espouses the dream of a single individual saving an impoverished town through bootstrap labour and hard work, which explicitly includes combat and violence, and which demonstrates that NPCs will inevitably fall for you through sufficient wealth accumulation in the form of gifts.

I do not think that the critiques stem from assuming what a game was without playing it. I think that the issue stems from not understanding the critiques, perhaps.”

I think your critique is more grounded in what the game is and fails at. The critique I usually see forgets entirely that there was a community center mechanic at all. Which tbf is also a valid critique, because when playing I also find myself forgetting that I’m getting items for the community center, because my brain sees it as a general gamified checklist. But yeah either way I agree that the intended ethos is contradicted by this one single person with this huge land making a zillion bucks and saving the town. In that way they’re just benevolent big corp.