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Evolvedustry

E-Dustry: Sandbox Adventure Tower Defense Game · By Evolvedustry

1.48 Feedback

A topic by Zolokhan created Jul 01, 2020 Views: 469 Replies: 6
Viewing posts 1 to 6
(+1)

Immediate observations : 

1) Slimes - nice but they need a purpose.  Either as fuel or different attacks based on color, or diffferent drops based on color.  Right now they do nothing but die.  

2) Crafting menu is much better now.  Is there a way to keymap the toggle between gear and buildings? That would be nice.  

3) All turrets use stone now.  I do not know if this was necessary ... it makes base defense too easy perhaps.  Upgrading your turrets should force yo uto upgrade your infrastructure to increase bar production to supply those new turrets with ammunition.  If they only ever use rocks then you just need to build one stone drill for each turret and you are finished.  There is nothing to so with all your extra bars.  They just sit in barrels. 

4) BUG : There is a major problem i am having when the world gets to be either too old or too big.  It stops loading and I am unable to re-enter it.  I notice that new worlds load much faster than older ones and eventually they just stop loading.  The characters are always saved and retrieved but the worlds eventually stop responding and crash the whole game.  

5) BUG: Boss hearts are not spawning in some worlds.  I was able to defeat the ice boss ... there were tons of ice hearts but after I beat it I saw one desert heart but then no more after wandering the map for awhile.  I created a new world when that one was unresponsive but this new world has no hearts. 

6) BUG: the quests are not workign properly for me.  The first thing i did when 1.48 came out was delete mt old character and world.  I was on the quest to defeat the Abomination (Liberator) but never finished it.  After I deleted that character and made a new one - the NEW character had the same mission (Liberator) but did not have access to the earlier missions.  I then created a second new character and he also had only The Liberator as a mission.  

7) Progression : I felt like now that I knew what to do I was able to rush everything and get my base completely defended by the first night. After my base was set, I went hunting hearts, and just kept trying to kill the ice boss, everytime getting  litty stronger.   I was able to defeat the Ice boss without any iron yet.  I simply destroyed hearts till I could make gear out of True Ice.  I went from Wood to Stone to Copper to True Ice.  Due to the nightly attacks I was a pretty high level and after defeating the ice boss I had enough materials to make all true Ice and an Abominal spear from the other material.  I felt this was too fast.  

8) Difficulty levels do not mean anything ?  I made a world on the highest difficulty but nothing was different? Has this been implemented? 

9) Needs a minimap. 

10) Does the world need to be infinite? If resources are unlimited then why make the worlds so big ... it is just a lot of empty space.  

Further Suggestions and other thoughts .... 

I am very curious to know your vision for this game.  Like I have said, this game is very appealing to me since I love Fortresscraft Evolved, Mindustry, Survival games, tower defense, and automation.  I can envision this game being very popular but I am wondering how you are going to market this game?  As it stands now it is top down Terraria.  This is a good start but it can be so much more.  Terraria was alright but it lacked any strategic thought.  It was formulaic and had a preplanned tier after tier structure.  Terraria was a very structured game which made it dull. Lots of people really like Terraria's aethetic (I hated it) and it became stupid popular.  The building aspect clicked with a lot of people but I found buidling in terraria to be utterly pointles - it had no strategic purpose. It was just for show. 

Now .. Evolvedustry has the potential to be much more strategic and can really capitalize on the tower defense, automation, and efficiency aspects.  Even combat can be so much better than terraria.  Look at Enter the Gungeon or any twin stick shooter and you can see the potential for top down games.  Can you imagine Evolvedustry with guns?   It has much more depth than Terraria which was basically just wandering a map and collecting crap and searching pages of Terraria wiki for the next tedious step.  

If you have not played Fortresscraft Evolved check it out.  It goes into the extreme of production and factory efficiency.  It is like Factorio but is 3D and voxel based.  It completely dropped the ball on the survival tower defense gameplay, which Evolvedustry is better suited for, but it had really great production goals.  You basically have to expand your production chains greater and greater to build larger and larger machines.  You go from needing like 50 copper bars to eventually needing 1 million bars to finish the last tasks for example.  If you combine this engineering with survival and combat and character development and boss fights I can see Evolvedustry standing apart from all these games.  It is a step into something new - beyond Terraria, beyond Fortresscraft, beyond Minecraft (I hate your trees btw ... way to Minecrafty :P), beyond Don't Starve.  Each of these games had something good but your game combines them all.  

I think one of the best things about Evolvedustry is that it is so ugly.  The enemies look like circles and blobs.  Your character looks like a rectangle.  But everything moves very well and it runs good.  Everything communicates itself clearly (simplistically) and it all works.  Terraria and Don't starve had a visual look and feel that people responded to but when playing them I always felt my experience in the game was no different than anyone else - you follow a set path and go through the motions.  Evolvedustry could fall into that trap, which might work for many people, but since this game will never have the visual style of those games I do not think it will compete.  Evolvedustry has the potential however to go MUCH deeper than those games and provide players with a more individualized experience.  

For example - Why not make monster spawning dependent on nearby biomes? As it stands now the nightly attacks are completely predictable just like Terraria, don't starve, etc.  But what if the monsters that attacked you changed depending on surrounding biomes such as a cementary biome creates undead, swamp biome makes XX monster, forest makes animals, mountains makes birds.  So your experience is already unique based on the world seed and location.  Then you can have those monters evolve based on other factors - how much ore is being produced could make larger monsters attack your base.  You can have multipel types of the same monsters such as fire zombies, acid zombies, fast zombies, regenerating zombies.  Keep the simple looking zombie monster animation but give it a pallete swap and some fire effects and bam a lava zombie. Keep the graphics simple - this also encourages players to eventually mod in thier own monsters.  Ofcourse each different zombie could have different drops and these drops can then be used to make unique machines, defenses, etc.  Perhaps killing bunches of fire zombies becuase your base is near a lava biome can allow you to build fire shooting towers or flame swords or use thier bodies to fuel machines (alternative fuel source).  The monsters should evolve with you - as you impact the environment it should have repurcussions on monsters abilties or growth. 

You mentioned that there will be digging in the game which is good because the ores need to be separated in some way - better ores deeper down and ofcourse more challenges deeper down.  There can also be biomes that damage your health, your machines might work slower, etc. 

I have written a lot but I blame Corona for making us alls stuck at home and summer starting  (I am a high school teacher so I am finally free of online teaching bullshit) I have way too much free time to think about games. 

These suggestions are just my thoughts about where this game could go but in the short term ... mini map, arrows on the conveyors when being placed, and working on the stability of reloading older worlds would be awesome. 

Also a way to scan or info check things in game ... I have no idea what those yellow or blue ores are and have no clue what tungstun looks like in game. 

Developer

Hey Zolokhan, thanks for testing out the alpha 1.48!

  1. For the slimes, they are going to be used in a very large supply chain of new towers and crafting chains, but that is in the next version.
  2. I'll add a toggle hotkey that you can set. Thanks for letting me know.
  3. I swapped them to stone because I noticed that when I played through the game, I always stayed with stone towers because they can get their ammo very easily and I never actually built the other kinetic towers. To me, this felt very stagnate as they can be built very early and last until late game in the over world.  Instead, I am working towards stone being the basic ammo of the starting kinetic towers, then they can use the ingots to give them modified attacks like penetration, extra damage, knock back, poison, area damage, fragments, etc... I am hoping this allows players to replace old towers with stronger ones, and when they start creating very large ingot factories, they can start to swap from stone to the ingots to increase the power of those towers even more.
  4. The loading times get way longer the more you explore the world and there is no loading screen for the world yet so it looks like it crashed, but I am pretty sure if you waited, they world will eventually load. It may look like a crash because the loading from the hard drive is not multi threaded yet so the whole game will hang until that data has been received and processed. I am working on a new saving and loading algorithm that will cut the loading times by about 100 times and I am surprised that I didn't implement it sooner.
  5. They have a very low spawn rate and you have to explore the biome first then they will start to spawn in that biome as they don't spawn until that chunk has been explored. I am working on making the hearts spawn when new chunks are explored depending on how much time has passed since the start of the world so new chunks that have not been explored will have a chance to have a heart when they spawn.
  6. I noticed this too after I posted the update. The reason for this is that the achievements are saved not to the world or player, but to the computer's game data file independent of the player's or world's. This means that once you have completed them, they are unlocked for all players on that computer. I am changing this so they are saved on the player so new characters can do the achievements. I'll get this into the next update.
  7. Should I get rid of boss drops from the heart drops? This was intended to make it so players that got stuck and couldn't kill the boss even after getting to the steel age could eventually make stronger gear to help them progress, but it looks like the drops are a little too strong. Currently, I don't know how to balance that yet, but I'll think about it a lot and looking forward to your suggestions!
  8. The difficulty levels only change the spawn rate of monsters and how many can be in the game at once. I am intending to add a lot more to the difficulty like modifying the AI to bosses and monsters, buffing bosses and monster stats, and other "fun" features, but I got distracted by other features of the game.
  9. Working on it, also adding a lot of features to the map like pinging allies in multiplayer,  way points, seeing spawn location, even large scale construction like world edit in Minecraft.
  10. The reason that I made the world infinite was for a couple reasons. 1) I wanted the player to never feel restricted on how they build their base and how large they can build their factory. 2) I have a lot of biomes, dimensions, structures, boss arenas, etc... planned and they all take a good amount of room and I didn't want to limit myself on the size of these things. 3) I also want the player to always be able to explore new world generation when I re-amp world generation. 4) Multiplayer worlds can support 1000+ players at once and they all need room in the world to grow their own factories. Bonus) I always love a coding challenge and the world generation was no exception.

As for the trees, I tried multiple different sprites and couldn't quite get the bird eye view of a tree down, thus stuck with this one. 

Quick questions about this line "I think one of the best things about Evolvedustry is that it is so ugly". Do you mean worst things about Evolvedustry is that it is ugly? If so, I can overhaul the graphics to give it a more dynamic feel and having a lot more things animated.  A lot of the sprites in the game were the result of my first time ever doing computer art, thus that's why they don't look that good. 

I am working on more creatures that inhabit different biomes and the player needs to build towers and play differently to defeat them. Same goes for the layers of the underground, realms, rifts,  and dimensions.

 "Different types of the same monster", this sounds awesome and I'll try to get it into one of the updates. 

A lot of features were not implemented yet as I am looking into converting this project into a new coding architecture to get insane performance so players can build 100,000 tower factories and have tons of performance to spare especially in multiplayer. This new system also allows me to bypass restrictions with my current architecture that basically makes it so I can add more enemies, items, towers, biomes, gear, etc... way faster. Almost 100 times faster, which will allow me to keep adding things quickly and have more custom effects for things in the game.

"I have written a lot" , don't worry as I like talking about the game with you as you are very insightful about important aspects of the game and I am looking forward to future conversations. Thanks for helping with the development of the game!

(+1)

If you do not kill a boss it's health bar stays in the corner of the screen even after it despawns.

(+1)

1) About the game being ugly - perhaps simple would be better.  The more crude the monsters the more you can have at one time ... it is better this way.  The main thing is how the monsters feel and are experienced which is great I like them simple and ugly.   

2) I understand the problem with the hearts spawning.  It feels like you walk for ages and find nothing but if you wait until nightfall they start spawning.  

3) The stone bullets work for now and your plan for making use of unique ammo is cool (bullet factories using multiple ingredients .. chemistry).  

4) The difficulty is pretty low at the moments (except for the abomination ... that is strong).  THe mobs really just become XP farms.  It would be nice if the monsters got progressivelt stronger as you increased your base/ production.  This would force you to improve your defenses with the better ammunition idea. 

5) Is there plans to add creative mode? I would like to mess around with stuff but I am limited by resources and day night cycles.  Any plans to add a mode where yo ucan build anything for free.

6) If you look at Terraria and Don't Starve - they did not have endless maps but people still love playing them multiplayer.  And since you can always travel to another world and keep your character then why bother with the endless map.  Once you get more biomes and more layers to the map and perhaps some dungeons, places of interest, the map will feel unique.  A unique and interesting world would be better than a vast endless world where nothing means anything.   Like dwarf fortress, the map was not endless but it felt like there were many possibilities.  

And you can still set the spawn to make huge maps with many square kilometers of land but it should have an end.  This can make for maps that have a unique shape perhaps ... islands or central mountains or double continents.  I have made multiple worlds already but none of them meant anything or stood out particularly much - if you walk long enough your going to find a place that has copper, tin, iron, coal in abundance and your are set. If your plans for multiplayer are in the 1,000s then have you considered PvP ? If the map is not endless it would force people to compete ... it is a crazy idea.  Have you ever played 7DaystoDie? Its world is not infinite but it is pretty damn huge and you will probably reach a stopping point  (climbed every mountain, killed every challenge, built every item, found every treasure) before you explore everything.  Then you start a new world and see what new challanges that world has to offer.  

These worlds are not completely random, they are procedurally generated so even in a finite world you can guarantee that EVERY biome will spawn and it will have a minimum amount of dungeons for example.  

Lets think about the stone turrets for example ... you have a very large selection of turrets and lasers but in the end you and I both just used stone because it worked.  More options does not always lead to meaningful gameplay.  Your turret list is basically infinite in the idea that I will never make my way through it.  I will never build every laser because it is pointless.  Exploring an infinite world could become pointless.  But if the world is smaller but more dynamic, unique, and is filled with emergent gameplay opportunities then it could be worth it. 

For example, thinking completely crazy in the future .... imagine creating a world with randomly allocated slider bars for mountains, lava, swamps, cities, caves, trees, deserts, islands - like a full complement of world generating madness.  But you are unaware of these at world start. (ofcourse you can manually mess with these to make like water world if you felt like it).  You start your aventure ...  you find yourself spawning between a village biome of goblins (?) and a lava biome of demons (?).  You find a cliff between these two biomes to make your base ... it is defensible and you can kill off the goblins and demons that come trying to kill you every night.  You get ores, your moving up, you decide to dig down into the mountain and find your base is directly over a undead biome underground, vampires are now trying to kill you.  You have to build different towes to kill each threat, you have to make a decision about which group to kill first perhaps.  Maybe you can tech up to terraforming  and completely wipe out one biome (freeze the lava pools maybe)  ... or negotiate with one of them.  The game world has to challenge you to survive against it and succeed.  I have made one laser in your game and it served no purpose but it looked cool and was satisfying but I did not need to build it because the world was not forcing me to need a laser.  In an infinite world - you can always overcome any obstacle by walking in another direction (ugh .. I built my base on top of vampires ... I will simply relocate) .  In a finite world you are stuck and must fight.  If you want to build a large base you must fight to carve that base out of the environment - threats and all.  

I recently made a base in your game in a terrible location with  low resources and decided to try making coal from trees.  This led to around an hour or so of me just learning how the whole process worked, fine tuning the production chains.  I had ot experiment with bio compressers, the coal making device .  I  had like eight compressors going into one coal making thing.   It was fun and I still have not gotten it down to the most streamlined model of  trees ----> leaves/sticks ---> lumber ----> coal.  THat is what I like about Evolvdustry is organizing resources, production, base building, defendin my forest because I also had to discover that monster will eat your trees. You cannot make bullets out of forest biome so I had to snake a conveyor around to supply turrets.  This whole process about making coal from trees was fun but UTTERLY POINTLESS  :) becuase I simply could have kept walking until i found a giant coal field next to an iron patch.  The only reason I did it was becuase I wanted to see what it was like to build a base in a terrible location.  In an inifnite world you would always be able to build a base in optimal surroundings - in a finite world you have to figure it out and make it work - that is where the fun is.  And you can always head off to a new world at any time for variety. 

But your game is awesome, I could play this for thousands of hours and see limitless potential.  Mindustry, Terraria, Fortresscraft, Minecraft, 7DaystoDie, Don't Starve all rolled up into one game with a simple 2D top down aesthetic .  Imagine the kind of mods  people will make for this game? lol

Developer

Sorry for the late response as I didn't realize that I didn't subscribe to this thread to receive notifications. 

4) One of my fears with making the monsters get progressively stronger naturally is that an inexperienced player might get their base that they worked on for hours completely wiped and they just never play the game again out of frustration. A approach I am looking forward to is one that allows the player to gain skill in manufacture, technology and defenses without risking their base is to make the difficulty location based. For instance, if they travel to the Bloodlands , Ice , Desert biomes, etc..., they need to have already unlocked bronze, iron, steel to build stronger kinetic towers or lasers to take on the new monsters that spawn there. Same with the layers of underground, as they go deeper, they need to get better towers, materials, and base building mechanics to survive the monsters down there. This allows the player to progress at their own rate and if they fail, they will only lose that portion of their base (which wouldn't be that large as they just started to expand into that biome). Although, I am thinking of making an endless mode where players can choose to have the game become more and more difficult as time/base progresses.

5) I wasn't going to tell people this but I didn't remove admin commands in the 1.48 version. Currently, you can type "/Set Gamemode Creative",  this is cap sensitive and it will make the crafting cost of towers = 0. I'll be adding sliding bars in the world creation selections and in the gameplay panel in the settings.

6) I see what you mean. I can add some settings that allow boundaries to be set and similar which could be very fun and competitive for multiplayer as everyone would be fighting for resources.  As for the dungeons, biomes, ect... In an endless world, there can be unlimited amount of dungeons, biomes, and other natural world generations where once a player has explored it, they can find new ones in the world with more unique spawns. Thinking ahead for multiplayer, I was worried that if a griefer found the only dungeon/biome/rift/(other important thing) and they would just ruin it for everyone by destroying it or building their base on it. An unlimited amount would allow for players to have their own dungeon or unique thing in the same world. This is not accounting for the Tryhards that would make it their mission to make the whole map their base and anyone that spawns in could never progress and will be spawn killed by minions or turrets.

As for the stone turrets, currently they are very strong in this version. In future update though, the new biomes and underground will make those towers obsolete for stronger variants basically forcing the player to build the lasers and stronger kinetic towers to progress into the new biomes. But yeah, they are basically endgame currently.

As for custom world generation, I am working on a fully customization, and I mean fully +100 settings to change monster behavior, terrain generation, dungeon spawns, rifts, biomes, replacing certain things with other things, unique commands like spawning bees 1/10 times a tree is cut down or spawn lava, and way more.

For the mods, I am also making a package for Unity (editor I use) that allows anyone to mod the game very easily and it handles all the complex stuff in the background for the modder, but they can override that too. I will also be adding a mod page built into the game that allows other players to share mods and make them public with others with the exception that it has to be approved by me to prevent copyright problems.

I am so glad you liked the game and this is just the alpha version, not polished or anything! Wait until I release the Unity DOTS update which has all the features I've described in recent posts + way more stuff. Thanks again for the discussion as they are very helpful.

(+1)

Finally beat the abomination .

The crash i had at world load was caused by me not waiting long enough.  It took quite a bit of time but my laptop is not really very powerful right now.