Post by Matz2704 in Power & Pistons comments

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No worries. I guess it's my job to make the UI as comprehensible as possible. Right now it's all over the place anyways. Good enough for a prototype, but needs some rework for later versions. Also it's designed with mobile devices in mind, since too much logic games lack the capability to enjoy a good engineering session in horizontal position with your feet up imho. And with this game it's only half the fun, if I cannot take it with me to the sofa or outside to touch some grass. So I am well aware about the performance aspect and trying to accommodate for potatoes as well.

I fully get your sentiment about creative mode. In fact, we're doing a playthrough of terraria right now. For me being a newbie, apart from 2D platformer not being my favorite genre, it boils down to: mine resources, craft better gear, kill boss, repeat with better resources. If there are any interesting mechanics (I don't know honestly), I guess our veteran is doing all the fun and heavy lifting in this aspect. So not really challenging for me and rather repetitive.

I loved the ex nihilo mods in minecraft skyblocks! In combination with other mods, skyblocks created this vibe:

- I built all of this myself from only one tree!

- I learned and applied many different gamemechanics to make all of this progress!

I love it, but it's not exactly the vibe I am aiming for in this game, but rather:

- There are this 2-3 mechanics. Let's see what I can build from only this!

- There may be other players out there. I want to explore and show off what I've got and also interact with and learn from others.

I can see a skyblocks like approach in this game with an empty map, but it would require a lot more different game mechanics, than only these two, that there are now. I think, I have to reflect on this a little more, maybe I'll come up with something. Or someone else does. Right now, the game is open source and of course I am open to modding, since tech heavy games always profit from it enormously.

For this game I see two scenarios:

1. Singleplayer as is. Customizable world size, pause- and steppable timeline. This already exists, but as you say, resources will be very limited and other than cleaning the map, there's no incentive to build something really complex.

2. Multiplayer. Infinite world grid, continuous timeline. Players will design their machines in creative mode, save them to blueprints and then drop them into the live MMO, using up the resources already colleted by the player. Blueprints will require some time to place, proportional to the number of parts used and only one will place at a time, others are in a waiting queue. Players should not be forced to rebuild their creations 1:1 tediously in multiplayer, but there still should be an incentive to automate production of various units via different means e.g. with printer units that walk through unit frames and print a predefined logic right into it.

Also I am thinking about multiple dimensions. The first one being peaceful, where every player has their own claim(s), can explore and expand, interact with other players via trading etc. Another dimension with pvp enabled, meaning players can claim ground by walking over it with their units and only then can place more units onto this ground. Also blocks of other players will be claimable, either by pushing it or by entering the units, I don't know yet. More different dimensions can be added when expanding the game further.

Does this at least somehow resonate with you or not at all?

Learning from successful games, and integrating into their own work what works well should be nothing to hate, but rather a skill every decent gamedev should apply.

So I will definitely extend the tutorials in some way.

As you suggest, a tutorial zone with better visual cues for the basic mechanics would be best in the beginning.

Later on, missions should be rather optional, but provide either additional lategame items, like the mover and collector to speed up progression, or just add a way to escape the current open world gameflow, to enter a strict, goal oriented, zachlike intermezzo, since working on a survival project can be quite lengthy at times. Also people could save their creations as blueprints and this way working on their survival progression as well. Or design missions themselves to share with other players. A mission designer is already implemented and ready, although I am still working on it to add more features atm.

I will check out the Introversion series, since I already had the concern, that this game may shift away too much in the mid/endgame from designing logic circuits to a 4x playstyle. Fortunately, I don't have an issue with not playing the game, since I am playtesting it for hours and hours now, on and off over the course of the last months.

Thank you so much for your insights and your references!

LazyLazer16 days ago

Resource gen, although could be a core mechanic, I was more so thinking along the lines of an anti-softlock feature to keep players from feeling constrained by the normal maps and forced to play creative. Thus they don't need to be all that complicated and could be as simple as, push this button X times or in dynamic rhythm to add an item to inventory. An example of a dynamic rhythm would be inputting the number for pi on one face then resetting at the end of your current limit through another face, maybe have the length determine you get bonus pieces, or that you need at least 3~4 numbers before each number gives a piece and thus incentivizing you not reset it every time.

Multiplayer for this game doesn't quite call to me because the machines you might be building are more like display pieces without practical purposes. For me building these machines would be more about having a tactile experience that deepens my understanding and thus building up a foundation for my intuition of how complex machines function(big brain speak for I just wanna learn how circuitry black magic works). I'm also not a big fan of pvp in general, though a pve in which you and fellow players fend off the spread of some corruption by walking over it would be fun.

Having said that though...I would love to see a competition/tournament mode where a challenge is put forth, and you are then required to build a singular unit to navigate/solve the problem. Different levels of difficulty for sure, but I think it'd be amazing to watch some of the creations move through a board and how each maker went about tackling the problem. The most obvious cases being mazes, but I'd love to see 'repair bots' or racing tracks and what not.

Terraria is a game that benefits most from being a social activity, where in a group work together to build up the resources to defeated each boss/zone. The division of labor and the ability to switch roles keeps you from feeling game has become stifled or tedious.

If you feel it's becoming a grind of constant gathering and fighting, you could work on exploration, fishing, base building/remodeling, or path clearing in your down time. They are technically resource gathering or base expansion too so you won't feel like you're just idling about and getting carried, but they require more dynamic gameplay(fishing is just leisure) and thus are inherently more engaging.

Should also try out gimmick builds that aren't meta but are more fun to play, I didn't really like bows nor swords so I always used yoyos and wands plus ropes for positioning.

I'd also recommend that you and your friend should check out some of the servers, just like in minecraft the servers have a whole host of custom gamemodes to experiment with. I got really into parkour at one point and it made the game so much more bearable that you can spot more spots to traverse without needing mid~late game movement gear.

If you already unlocked the mechanic you can also try playing around with wires, though last I played there wasn't much you could do with it and I'd imagine there's tons more nowadays. Making traps or killing chambers are the go to for most, but I just used it activate the elevator glitch. Don't know if you already heard but if you hammer the blocks into slopes(triangles) consecutively like a saw wave then your player model will get instantly launched just by colliding with it. I used it generously throughout my base, and that design constraint also had me remodel the base to better incorporate them.

The most fun I had in that game is...when I'm not trying to progress but just reiterating my current set up to be more aesthetic or convenient. Not optimized though, just easier to navigate, because 'optimized' would be using repeating patterns of the minimum resources required, but 'convenient' is creating visually distinct sections that help you associate everything's location more easily. My base looked more like how the Weasley hut is described than it did an impressive fortress, but it was much more fun to build and all the more endearing to inhabit throughout the gameplay.

Matz270411 days ago

Just do be clear that I understand correctly: By 'button' you don't mean a button on the keyboard? Because that would feel kinda cheaty. I guess, you mean a special block, that the user placed, which is then pushed by pistons in a distinct pattern? That would be something I can get behind and is actually a very good idea! Maybe have some easier pattern, like squares of two for wires, or the fibonacci sequence for pistons and make it increasingly more difficult for more sophisticated items. I think, I will call it the 'Lazy Block' due to obvious reasons. It would also be a good place to hide some eastereggs, given it's not easily readable in the code. I'd need at least have a compiled WASM build, to not make it too trivial to find, but a server client model would be ideal for this. Also I think that a live service approach with scalable backend infrastructure would be inevitable, when approaching infinite maps, since client hardware would at some point reach its performance limits with expanding player bases.

Of course, I'd like to keep the open source approach, because the game would benefit much of it and players should always be able to play the game in singleplayer mode offline.

Given the maps will be a lot bigger in future builds, I definitely see practical purposes. I am thinking about fully automated mining operations, where bases will expand basically on their own. I think it's possible. For example, I designed a mining operation, that is capable of mining a resource patch on its own via a little walker unit. It will mine one strip of 24 items, then return to the base, where it's unloaded, the items are sorted, and it will then continue to mine the next strip of resources. Right now I am working on making the approach more feasible for early game and redesign the miner unit for automated construction. The next step in this regard would be mass storage of blocks on the map and production chains, that will be able to mass produce simple standardized circuits in units, which will be stored as well and reused in the production of more sophisticated units. God, I am using more time playtesting the game than actually developing it. I hope, that's a good thing?

I see, that all of this is of course not trivial to new players. I guess it's my job, to gradually lead players to realize what is even possible in this game. I'd have to extend the zachlike missions a lot, but before this, I have to know myself, where everything of this should lead, and if my vision stated above is possible at all. Thank you so much for your input on this and making me reflect. I really appreciate it!

That paragraph of yours about competition/tournament mode reminded me of the many minecraft modpacks, where it was possible to play the game in so many different ways, sometimes with strict, metroidvania-like progression, other times with open sandbox vibe. As stated earlier, I am very open to modding and hope some people will at some point come up with some fun derivatives, where the game gets a whole new direction.

So I will definitely check out the wire mechanic in terraria. I may add some to our base and wire up some pressure plates in front of our storage with those dart traps on the other end. Just some slight griefing on a friendly basis, you know.

I'll also try out the elevator glitch. This sounds fun!

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