To be honest, I don't think Sam's religious views make any sense. If Sam believes that God is cruel and is constantly afraid of punishment because of what he has done, then he should be afraid of committing other sins just as much because God will punish him because he is cruel. At the same time, he criticizes Saint Paul saying that one must radically cut oneself off from sin and the submission of the flesh, saying that the teaching of Jesus said something different. Suggesting here that someone can sin from time to time and that's okay. But this has nothing to do with the cruelty of God. If God allows sin, and Jesus somehow implied it, then that is against harsh judgment and cruelty.
The whole shed scene in the latest update is also weird to me. Sam's views make sense for this scene, but they seem detached from other moments where Sam is terrified of God's judgment. I think the whole polemic with Saint Paul was written for this one thread, but in isolation from the whole story.
Of course, I know it's still just furry visual novel, but I like being consistent in how the characters are written. This is important, especially in a thread that is likely to be relevant in Will's route (I think). I'm still enjoying the game, but I'm starting to notice some turns that I don't like.
It is possible that I misunderstood Sam's message due to the difficult words and my language barrier, but I tried to understand this passage correctly.
From Sam's perspective, he essentially thinks God is alien and impossible to understand despite trying his best to understand him, and he thinks many from the bible do not understand what he really is. (Of course, he doesn't want to think that or explore that because he's afraid to be accidentally sacrilegious--though he absoultely does, and it's one of his intrusive thoughts.)
This is part of why his faith and belief is very shaky despite his best efforts and obsession with reading the bible.
He believes God is likely wrathful and uncaring, and believes it is possible for himself to be already damned in spite of his best efforts-- though he is trying to admit that he doesn't really know the truth, and that those who claim to know the truth are untrustworthy.
He struggles against constant uncertainty, and is most devout in moments of panic (when he's begging for mercy to a force that seems almighty, eternal, and intangible).
Sam would most likely be Gnostic if he knew what gnositicism was, but he's not book smart.
This makes a lot of sense. People (human, anthropomorphic animal, or other) have cognitive dissonance, which often takes a lot of time (and sometimes therapy) to recognize and resolve. It's why we see others often behave in contradicting manners, sometimes even when religion is concerned.
I always interpreted Sam's behavior as a sign of this, given his belief in a wrathful God and belief in the possibility of redemption. These two ideas seemingly contradict one another and result in Sam's elevated levels of emotional distress, as seen through his anger, guilt and anxiety. Until he enters into a psychological state of congruence (which he most likely won't due to all the uncertainties regarding God in general), these emotions and behavioral contradictions will persist. Of course, Sam doesn't view it this way. He views all of his difficulties and the resulting emotions through the lens of Sin and Virtue, which is a form of all-or-nothing thinking. He is trapped within the rigidity of his own beliefs.
I know that c l i f f is probably next but I'm just wondering how much longer before William will admit his feelings for our dear Samuel LOL because I know he wants to tell him
I suppose you're one of those people that believe they will never have a proper kissing scene as well I understand your perspective 100% because I see that as well but Samuel needs to know I feel
but there's a kiss scene... you just might not have gotten it due to your in-game decisions. And yes, I believe there will be other scenes like that. I only commented that way because I can't imagine william talking about his feelings, it doesn't seem like his type. He seems to be the type to go out there and do it.
N o w I just have to wait for the Android update whatever that may be uploaded it's easier for me to read on tablet most of the time LOL I'm excited to see what happens with William so much LOL
You know I love it when people comment on my comments stating that William should be coming soon and I foolishly believe it but I guess that makes things interesting you know I'm still hoping against hope that William will eventually admit to Samuel his true feelings and give him a proper kiss on the lips but I know that's just wishful thinking probably sorry I just had vent and give my own opinions sorry
Probably a silly question but I'm confused - folks in the comments keep discussing routes/character updates I'm not sure where to find. I've reached the end of the latest update but seem to be missing stuff unless I'm misunderstanding...
O h. Wait. After a bit more reading I think I figured it out. I'm on Android and if I'm reading correctly, the Android updates are quite behind all the others. Okay. Maybe I just have to download it on my laptop!
You mean Nikolai? No, only chapter 3 so far. I'm not sure how many chapters there are going to be, but I can tell there's going to be a lot more coming.
Does anyone know a way to get the build 20 android apk cause I forgot to download it while I was invested in other VNs omg😭😭 if not then I guess I have to restart I mean it's fine I only started 2 routes
I think that was the whole point of Sam's character:
Sam tells himself that Chase is generic (like NPC), also he is not meant to be replaced with us (I hope you know what I mean, there is term for that: something like projecting yourself on a game/movie character and I meant that very thing. We are meant to project to some extent on Chase, however in Samuel's case we are only following his story as observer)
Chase is cool, but Sam is just different league. Just personal rating, but to my mind Sam is the best written protagonist in any vn ;)
Chase is a bit of a vacuum: someone remarks that he has the personality of a rock. Possible redemption comes from a link to Adastra, where Chase is invited to the paranormal conference in Rome and then kidnapped by the wolf.
The kidnap is far less random than it appears in current Adastra: the reason for manipulating Amicus into the act is because the Parents have an interest in Earth. Why? Two reasons: first, Echo (and a few other world sites) are toxic is because a chunk of the Darkness has lodged there. Humans are of interest to the Parents because they survive contact with it, Chase is a notable survivor with strong exposure.
Second, despite repeated contact with the advanced nations it appears that humans are able to shrug this off and forget it in all but cultural terms. This is unprecedented and needs study.
Contact with Darkness-contaminated intellects is not without its danger of contagion, and when Chase is collected as a research specimen, the Parents use the Wolves as the least valuable and most "sacrificeable" of the Sapientiae. At least, as seen by the Parents.
Istg after I finished read echo I am hoping this vn has a happy ending (even tho I know it's gonna make me cry because of what happens in echo it says that everyone got hurt so really looking forward to the ending)
Oh boy, don't wait for that.. Maybe they will release a short VN telling a good ending, but just maybe. The universe of smoke room + echo + arches, etc, is supposed to be dark, to bend your fears and make you cry of anger and sadness, at least that's what I get from the devs, and would be unfair for smoke room to have a good ending while echo have something so bad. But well, who knows~
I downloaded build 21 for windows, unzipped the file and saw that there were already 2 screenshots in the game folder. Was that something you guys forgot to remove or are they meant to be there?
Also, I usually avoid horror games because I'm a scaredy cat, but I decided to try TSR because of Nik. After playing through his route I was so immersed in the story that I couldn't help but to play through all the other routes, and now I can't choose a fav because all the main characters are charming in their own ways lol. The writing is amazing and I really can't wait to see how the rest of the story will fold out for the next 2 years or so.
I just have to say that the story so far of TSR is soo good. I forgot completely that I was even reading and it was like I was actually there in Sam's shoes so to speak. I have to hand it to you guys. You guys deserve so much more praise etc. for this. If you ever get it up on steam and it goes up for sale. I will be one of the first to make that purchase.
Also thanks, reading VN's is my new hobby and this one has really touched me so far.
Also while reading Nikolai newest update I noticed that Nikolai is the only one that has a proper image of someone kissing Samuel I'm just wondering is that intentional I would like to see one for William but I understand that it might not ever happen lol
Well, I might be wrong but from what I see I probably am right.
spoilers:
The relationship that Sam has with the cast is not on romantic level, we don't choose our route partner like in ANY other VNs: I like him so I will jerk off thinking about him / I like him so I will pair up with him doing activities etc.
Look at how Sam is choosing his "route partner":
Cliff- I need easy money bc I have none
Murdoch- I lost a lot of money so I need A LOT OF money and I am willing to do anything to get this, even gamble
Nik- I need money... but he is my dear friend and I want to see him (look at his emotions, he knows that he is paying the least but he still is choosing him. That s true that at the very beginning he says that he doesn't love him at all, but at this point we know better :) )
Will- I can't live with this burden, I want justice... even if this means my death (he doesn't choose coyote because he likes him, he chooses him as a source of justice meant to punish him)
That being said, Samuel loves / likes only two characters (at the beginning of the story): Nik and Will.
The former also loves him thus the only true kiss scene. However even though Will loves Sam he has too many problems with himself to show his true side (he tries and he actually did, but you've read this so I don't need to summarize those scenes)
We know that Cliff likes Samuel with reciprocity, but their relationship is too fresh to really name it "love". They know each other for too short period of time or the circumstances were unfavorable to expand their feeling beside smuts, idk rly :)
I am honestly have to disagree with you on the point that you said that we don't who we want Samuel 2 l i k e I mean at first with William it is indeed guilt that is hanging over his head but I honestly believe he grows to love all choosable people and for what I've seen throughout each route Nikolai is a little over protective of Samuel and as for Murdoch I don't like the fact that there relationship would start off with a bet Cliff I can understand a little bit but anyway back to my other point I just really want a proper kissing scene from William and again I know that May never happened and I thank you for your opinion none the less
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when is build 23 gonna be public 😭😭😭😭 im fiending broo
I'm waiting for it too. And the new one for Arches also.
I'm not gonna lie, Felipe, Paul, and Dimitri have the best dynamic. I'm kinda jealous.
Echo operates on multiverse anyway so good endings are possible regardless of what endings we end up with.
Can I stream it? looks amazing xoxo
I can't wait for the full game to be finished. I should touch some grass because i'm addicted to this
Little spoilers
To be honest, I don't think Sam's religious views make any sense. If Sam believes that God is cruel and is constantly afraid of punishment because of what he has done, then he should be afraid of committing other sins just as much because God will punish him because he is cruel. At the same time, he criticizes Saint Paul saying that one must radically cut oneself off from sin and the submission of the flesh, saying that the teaching of Jesus said something different. Suggesting here that someone can sin from time to time and that's okay. But this has nothing to do with the cruelty of God. If God allows sin, and Jesus somehow implied it, then that is against harsh judgment and cruelty.
The whole shed scene in the latest update is also weird to me. Sam's views make sense for this scene, but they seem detached from other moments where Sam is terrified of God's judgment. I think the whole polemic with Saint Paul was written for this one thread, but in isolation from the whole story.
Of course, I know it's still just furry visual novel, but I like being consistent in how the characters are written. This is important, especially in a thread that is likely to be relevant in Will's route (I think). I'm still enjoying the game, but I'm starting to notice some turns that I don't like.
It is possible that I misunderstood Sam's message due to the difficult words and my language barrier, but I tried to understand this passage correctly.
From Sam's perspective, he essentially thinks God is alien and impossible to understand despite trying his best to understand him, and he thinks many from the bible do not understand what he really is. (Of course, he doesn't want to think that or explore that because he's afraid to be accidentally sacrilegious--though he absoultely does, and it's one of his intrusive thoughts.)
This is part of why his faith and belief is very shaky despite his best efforts and obsession with reading the bible.
He believes God is likely wrathful and uncaring, and believes it is possible for himself to be already damned in spite of his best efforts-- though he is trying to admit that he doesn't really know the truth, and that those who claim to know the truth are untrustworthy.
He struggles against constant uncertainty, and is most devout in moments of panic (when he's begging for mercy to a force that seems almighty, eternal, and intangible).
Sam would most likely be Gnostic if he knew what gnositicism was, but he's not book smart.
-George
This makes a lot of sense. People (human, anthropomorphic animal, or other) have cognitive dissonance, which often takes a lot of time (and sometimes therapy) to recognize and resolve. It's why we see others often behave in contradicting manners, sometimes even when religion is concerned.
I always interpreted Sam's behavior as a sign of this, given his belief in a wrathful God and belief in the possibility of redemption. These two ideas seemingly contradict one another and result in Sam's elevated levels of emotional distress, as seen through his anger, guilt and anxiety. Until he enters into a psychological state of congruence (which he most likely won't due to all the uncertainties regarding God in general), these emotions and behavioral contradictions will persist. Of course, Sam doesn't view it this way. He views all of his difficulties and the resulting emotions through the lens of Sin and Virtue, which is a form of all-or-nothing thinking. He is trapped within the rigidity of his own beliefs.
This turned out to be a lengthier response than I intended, but I do personally relate to Sam a lot and that is why I love him as a character. I didn't grow up going to Mass regularly, but I somehow still managed to have The Catholic Guilt© for many years. Even to this day, I have a bit of a guilty conscience. I see a lot of my old self in Sam and that's why I love his perspective.
i thought william was best looking till i saw kane.
I know that c l i f f is probably next but I'm just wondering how much longer before William will admit his feelings for our dear Samuel LOL because I know he wants to tell him
I don't think he's going to tell, he's just going to demonstrate in actions, which he's already started to do. pay attention to the smallest details
I suppose you're one of those people that believe they will never have a proper kissing scene as well I understand your perspective 100% because I see that as well but Samuel needs to know I feel
but there's a kiss scene... you just might not have gotten it due to your in-game decisions. And yes, I believe there will be other scenes like that. I only commented that way because I can't imagine william talking about his feelings, it doesn't seem like his type. He seems to be the type to go out there and do it.
(1).apk 🗿
🗿
When will the new android update release?
Esperando a atualização na versão Android
How do i skip ahead to the part im actually at every time there's an update? I'm using the itch.io app
Oh gosh! William's note book by the end of this update, those doodles and that music... x3
That's what I'm saying...
Why're they so intricate!?
N o w I just have to wait for the Android update whatever that may be uploaded it's easier for me to read on tablet most of the time LOL I'm excited to see what happens with William so much LOL
Spoiler Alert:
The spider we first see in Nik's route? ITS LEGS ARE MADE OF THE LEGS OF CREATURES!! 😱😱😱
Already know that :D
I didn't. 😅
You know I love it when people comment on my comments stating that William should be coming soon and I foolishly believe it but I guess that makes things interesting you know I'm still hoping against hope that William will eventually admit to Samuel his true feelings and give him a proper kiss on the lips but I know that's just wishful thinking probably sorry I just had vent and give my own opinions sorry
Waaaahh 😭😭😭💔💔😭😭😭💔💔🙏😭😭🍷🤌🍷 (i love William)
Probably a silly question but I'm confused - folks in the comments keep discussing routes/character updates I'm not sure where to find. I've reached the end of the latest update but seem to be missing stuff unless I'm misunderstanding...
O h. Wait. After a bit more reading I think I figured it out. I'm on Android and if I'm reading correctly, the Android updates are quite behind all the others. Okay. Maybe I just have to download it on my laptop!
i need nik update
The plot is very attractive, and Nik is so cute! I love Nik and look forward to his next chapter🤗
How much longer till the William update becomes public to me she still has the worst cliffhanger
Probably mid-October
It should be around this week.
it's been a year daddy. i really really miss you.
Ur talking about nik
that was a quandale dingle reference
does anyone knows when is the next nik update? (yes i know he just got one 23 days ago)
updates go in order by character, so the next 3 builds will be william, cliff, murdoch, and then back to nik. it should be around 4 months
does anyone know when abouts the next murdoch update will be?
Yeah, me too! Sam is both the most cute and most handsome character.
Objection!
.....................Hear me out.
What if...
Bear with me here...
...Yao.
is nick's route done?
You mean Nikolai? No, only chapter 3 so far. I'm not sure how many chapters there are going to be, but I can tell there's going to be a lot more coming.
Please make a route for Todd. I'm begging you, I love that man :(
No, and is better Yao.
A man can dream, right?
woww! the story is keep getting intriguing, now i'm genuinely curious about what happen next in william route.
Does anyone know a way to get the build 20 android apk cause I forgot to download it while I was invested in other VNs omg😭😭 if not then I guess I have to restart I mean it's fine I only started 2 routes
Sam is way more appealing, and I think what Chase may have as appealing is actually Sam's influence on him
I think that was the whole point of Sam's character:
Sam tells himself that Chase is generic (like NPC), also he is not meant to be replaced with us (I hope you know what I mean, there is term for that: something like projecting yourself on a game/movie character and I meant that very thing. We are meant to project to some extent on Chase, however in Samuel's case we are only following his story as observer)
Chase is cool, but Sam is just different league. Just personal rating, but to my mind Sam is the best written protagonist in any vn ;)
Chase is a bit of a vacuum: someone remarks that he has the personality of a rock. Possible redemption comes from a link to Adastra, where Chase is invited to the paranormal conference in Rome and then kidnapped by the wolf.
The kidnap is far less random than it appears in current Adastra: the reason for manipulating Amicus into the act is because the Parents have an interest in Earth. Why? Two reasons: first, Echo (and a few other world sites) are toxic is because a chunk of the Darkness has lodged there. Humans are of interest to the Parents because they survive contact with it, Chase is a notable survivor with strong exposure.
Second, despite repeated contact with the advanced nations it appears that humans are able to shrug this off and forget it in all but cultural terms. This is unprecedented and needs study.
Contact with Darkness-contaminated intellects is not without its danger of contagion, and when Chase is collected as a research specimen, the Parents use the Wolves as the least valuable and most "sacrificeable" of the Sapientiae. At least, as seen by the Parents.
"Boy howdy William I wrote the most interesting sitiation based on the book the stoat feller had."
-George, as Todd
if anyone cares, they should check The Smoke Room's page on PDB https://www.personality-database.com/profile?pid=2&cid=11&sub_cat_id=19645
Istg after I finished read echo I am hoping this vn has a happy ending (even tho I know it's gonna make me cry because of what happens in echo it says that everyone got hurt so really looking forward to the ending)
Oh boy, don't wait for that.. Maybe they will release a short VN telling a good ending, but just maybe. The universe of smoke room + echo + arches, etc, is supposed to be dark, to bend your fears and make you cry of anger and sadness, at least that's what I get from the devs, and would be unfair for smoke room to have a good ending while echo have something so bad. But well, who knows~
There will be some happy endings! I'm not going to spoil anything, though.
-George
OMG I have a reason to live now
"some".... that's concerning 😰
Petition for Nikolai and/or William to have that happy ending. Please.
Sam and Nikolai better get married, but after playing through the tarot card scene twice, I'm doubtful. :(
They'd better get married or I'm, gonna uh--
...Scream. . . ?
does this vn have a discord server
I downloaded build 21 for windows, unzipped the file and saw that there were already 2 screenshots in the game folder. Was that something you guys forgot to remove or are they meant to be there?
Also, I usually avoid horror games because I'm a scaredy cat, but I decided to try TSR because of Nik. After playing through his route I was so immersed in the story that I couldn't help but to play through all the other routes, and now I can't choose a fav because all the main characters are charming in their own ways lol. The writing is amazing and I really can't wait to see how the rest of the story will fold out for the next 2 years or so.
I just have to say that the story so far of TSR is soo good. I forgot completely that I was even reading and it was like I was actually there in Sam's shoes so to speak. I have to hand it to you guys. You guys deserve so much more praise etc. for this. If you ever get it up on steam and it goes up for sale. I will be one of the first to make that purchase.
Also thanks, reading VN's is my new hobby and this one has really touched me so far.
Anyone else having trouble updating the android version?
Yes do u know how to fix it by any chance
Nope but I keep trying if not I'll just delete and restart unfortunately
Also while reading Nikolai newest update I noticed that Nikolai is the only one that has a proper image of someone kissing Samuel I'm just wondering is that intentional I would like to see one for William but I understand that it might not ever happen lol
Well, I might be wrong but from what I see I probably am right.
spoilers:
The relationship that Sam has with the cast is not on romantic level, we don't choose our route partner like in ANY other VNs: I like him so I will jerk off thinking about him / I like him so I will pair up with him doing activities etc.
Look at how Sam is choosing his "route partner":
Cliff- I need easy money bc I have none
Murdoch- I lost a lot of money so I need A LOT OF money and I am willing to do anything to get this, even gamble
Nik- I need money... but he is my dear friend and I want to see him (look at his emotions, he knows that he is paying the least but he still is choosing him. That s true that at the very beginning he says that he doesn't love him at all, but at this point we know better :) )
Will- I can't live with this burden, I want justice... even if this means my death (he doesn't choose coyote because he likes him, he chooses him as a source of justice meant to punish him)
That being said, Samuel loves / likes only two characters (at the beginning of the story): Nik and Will.
The former also loves him thus the only true kiss scene. However even though Will loves Sam he has too many problems with himself to show his true side (he tries and he actually did, but you've read this so I don't need to summarize those scenes)
We know that Cliff likes Samuel with reciprocity, but their relationship is too fresh to really name it "love". They know each other for too short period of time or the circumstances were unfavorable to expand their feeling beside smuts, idk rly :)
I am honestly have to disagree with you on the point that you said that we don't who we want Samuel 2 l i k e I mean at first with William it is indeed guilt that is hanging over his head but I honestly believe he grows to love all choosable people and for what I've seen throughout each route Nikolai is a little over protective of Samuel and as for Murdoch I don't like the fact that there relationship would start off with a bet Cliff I can understand a little bit but anyway back to my other point I just really want a proper kissing scene from William and again I know that May never happened and I thank you for your opinion none the less