I JUST FINISHED THE GAME AND WAS REALLY EXCITED FRO A CONTINUATION AND IT TURNS OUT THE DEV IS A KIDDIE DIDDLER AND IT WON'T BE CONTINUED???????? istg if someone doesn't continue this i'm gonna learn ren'py and do it myself
To be clear he didn't actually touch anybody allegedly, this was all online (still bad, we're talking sending nudes etc).
Basic gist is that Leo (the dev) was isolated as a child, found porn at the age of 11 and joined a bad discord at the age of 15 filled with pedophiles and porn addicts. He would be groomed at the age of 16 by a 20 year old and his boyfriend (sexting, nudes, sexual livestreams) and the rest of the discord group encouraged and normalised the sharing of nudes/sexts between all members, minors and adults.
By 18 he learned of grooming and pedophilia but his brain was so cooked by porn addiction and being groomed himself that he would go onto groom minors himself (for 4 years when he was 18-22), including the person who did the callout (Year 2022, Leo age 22, victim age 16). I'm not going to go into details (basically it escalated once age was established, mutual nudes, livestreaming, mutual r18 artworks).
The two would then eventually drop communication. Victim has neutral feelings, has moved on and hopes Leo can grow from this. Leo hid his actions from everyone as he didn't want it to define his character. He seems pretty open to taking responsibility (he has admitted to 6 victims ranging from ages 14-19 but hasn't revealed their identities; this is fine imo, respect their anonymity and agency to pursue whatever path they want.)
In addition Leo has allegedly purged his discord of channels (and therefore chatlogs) which is also fine imo. His wrongdoings have already been brought to light and his reputation tarnished. His power over others was his clout as a creator and NOT him physically abusing others. I wouldn't want someone who was also a victim of grooming and who is still young himself to go to prison which could ruin his life even further than it already had been when he himself was groomed himself as a minor.
--------------------
I hope the takeaway here isn't simply to throw people under the bus when they become inconvenient and call it a day. It's to have a wider conversation on the glorification of pornography in the furry, especially when there's minors whose developing minds are exposed to harmful ideas about consent and sexuality that leaves them vulnerable to predators.
If we are to prevent future victims of grooming or give them a place of refuge, we have to build community. If we are to fight back against perpetrators who refuse to take accountability for their actions or who contribute to the production, distribution or consumption of CSAM, we have to be organised.
The victims of grooming here were isolated and vulnerable and who took any community they could find. To beat the false warmth of love-bombing we can't just be cold and callous to others from the sidelines. We need to approach this with real warmth, with empathy towards even Leo as he's only part of the cyclical perpetuation of groomers.
And we need to have a firm stance on what is and isn't acceptable so we don't spend time arguing in circles. How to include minors (if even at all) and how to deal with creators forced into leadership positions by their followers who both refuse to take responsibility for the power dynamic this creates, where individuals are suddenly responsible for the morality of hundreds if not thousands of strangers. What qualifies as kink that adults can fully communicate and consent to and what takes advantage of those who lack the capacity or agency to meaningfully consent.
I hope I'm not coming across as forgiving of Leo, far from it. But I want us to appreciate how Leo has consented to his own deplatforming and how rare this is in a time where dickheads and actual criminals often shirk accountability and coast off of the residual goodwill by preying on our collective isolation and porn addictions.
There's a pattern of those mollifying Shi's actions completely while fully condemning Leo due to their age difference at 17 and 22 respectively when they offended. Honestly? As someone in their 30's anybody that's 25 or younger are all just kids to me. The brain doesn't stop developing until then and victims of abuse (like Leo and Shi are) tend to develop slower mentally. As a victim of abuse myself I can corroborate that in retrospect.
It's also why I can't help but feel bad for him, like me he would have also barely had any control over himself (my abuse was predominantly verbal and physical so I lashed out verbally and physically against others and myself in turn during my early adult years). It's only last year until his brain begin to fully mature at the age of 23-24 did he allegedly stop grooming minors. That he continued work on his game after the hiatus. If his offenses weren't so dire, he may have been poised to make a full recovery and integrated himself into society as a proper adult.
Again I'm not excusing their actions, but I do want to give perspective on how a 22 year old could possibly act far below their maturity for their fully adult brain (they're not fully developed yet and trauma has potentially stunted their growth on top of that).
i only said that bc when i said that hes a gr00mer i got a lot of downvotes so i just tried to say bad person and still got a lot of downvotes i cant-😭
Leo sent some "things" to a minor over texts. The OG post was him admitting to it. But there is some debate that the two of them were of legal age in The Philippines. At least that's what I could gather. I'm still in denial that this happened. Leo was a big inspiration to me.
Is it tho? His country is a little behind on the times, it could actually be legal. I wish the chats could be shared so we had more info. I never trust any internet drama these days, its too easy to accuse someone with no evidence.
"Behind on the times"??? Ugh I hate when Americans do this. Since when did American morality become the standard for the world? Since when did having other cultures become being "behind on the times"? The American AoC is just as arbitrary as countries with lower ages, the human brain fully develops at 25 so until you raise it I don't see how a country having consent laws at 16 is wrong.
Heres a map of age of consent in Europe, America is an outlier even in the developed world. I'll be honest I support a high AoC but thats my individual moral opinion and other people and other cultures are something that I don't have the authority to dictate.
Heres a video from England that will mortify everyone across the pond. Of course a majority said no, but the fact that it was even on the table of debate even shocks me a bit.
Actually it just came to my attention that the US AoC isnt even a federal law! Its up to the states! And most states have lowered it!! So apparently half of America (including New York) is behind on the times but like Tennessee isn't. I always have loved country music.
The game was great. I kinda like Cade, Dylan and Tyler. I like mostly Cade, because he gives the best hugs and kind cute to see his puppy looking eyes. The story was great and funny. I hope the game will be continued soon😊.
just played both, really like both game, and played with points with Ace and realized how bad I acted with one of my fav characters lol.... I am just waiting to play the continuation of the new version which seemed much more improved
The only part i liked about the original story is that you unalive yourself by jumping out the window since...why not? It's funny just waking up and seeing furries before getting 'you died lol' screen
Really loved the original story and the reboot is really good to. I think Tyler benefited the most from the redesign. They did Sidney wrong tho, my boy went from a bit anti-social to straight depressed. And they did Lars dirty, he used to be a quirky person but now he's actin like a... I don't think there's anyway to put it lightly.
I love the reboot so much, honestly I didn't like Lars that much in the original, but in the new version he's so entertaining lol I'm looking forward to the next update since I'm starving for Ace content
You choose male it still gay add choice and it will be bisexual (or everyone) i don't care if it will have neutral pronouns like Under The Bridge at least it will have choice even for straight people,if is a SFW visual novel there will be only CGs with people kissing like Under The Bridge!Also i hate bara things but this one has a very fine art style and cute characters!
It's a gay focused game. There is nothing wrong with this. Just like there is nothing wrong with straight, bi, lesbian or pan. It's ok to make female or male focused games, it's also ok to make trans focused games. What's not ok is to try to make the creator deviate and make their creation what you think it should be.
It's a miracle. It truly is. Glad you're back Leo!
And Lars is the most dangerous character that I have ever seen in a VN. Everytime he looks at me I just feel my heart wanna leap out of my chest and his damn cheeky ass smile is burned into my head that my spine always tingles in sensation that I might be falling in love with him... If Lars is confirmed as a top then I will go FUCKING FERAL AS LARS FIT MY "WHORE OUT" CHECKMARKS OH MY FUCKING GODS.
I can't help but wait for every new update. Love the characters especially Lars and Cade. The MC feels over reactive sometimes but maybe it is because I am old.
This was one of my first itch.io games I ever downloaded and played. Even tho am not gay I do like cute things and the art is just awasome I do hope that adult scenes are purely optional tho . Otherwise game is great and you should play it y'all!
Hell yeah, I remember playing the original almost 2 years ago. I tried the reboot and I'm liking it so far. Lars is and has been my favorite. I like how he's more flirty now with the protagonist, but his new design's going to take me a while to get used to. I'm looking forward to future updates and also I sent you $2. Hey, not much but a good game deserves to be rewarded ;)
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I JUST FINISHED THE GAME AND WAS REALLY EXCITED FRO A CONTINUATION AND IT TURNS OUT THE DEV IS A KIDDIE DIDDLER AND IT WON'T BE CONTINUED???????? istg if someone doesn't continue this i'm gonna learn ren'py and do it myself
To be clear he didn't actually touch anybody allegedly, this was all online (still bad, we're talking sending nudes etc).
Basic gist is that Leo (the dev) was isolated as a child, found porn at the age of 11 and joined a bad discord at the age of 15 filled with pedophiles and porn addicts. He would be groomed at the age of 16 by a 20 year old and his boyfriend (sexting, nudes, sexual livestreams) and the rest of the discord group encouraged and normalised the sharing of nudes/sexts between all members, minors and adults.
By 18 he learned of grooming and pedophilia but his brain was so cooked by porn addiction and being groomed himself that he would go onto groom minors himself (for 4 years when he was 18-22), including the person who did the callout (Year 2022, Leo age 22, victim age 16). I'm not going to go into details (basically it escalated once age was established, mutual nudes, livestreaming, mutual r18 artworks).
The two would then eventually drop communication. Victim has neutral feelings, has moved on and hopes Leo can grow from this. Leo hid his actions from everyone as he didn't want it to define his character. He seems pretty open to taking responsibility (he has admitted to 6 victims ranging from ages 14-19 but hasn't revealed their identities; this is fine imo, respect their anonymity and agency to pursue whatever path they want.)
In addition Leo has allegedly purged his discord of channels (and therefore chatlogs) which is also fine imo. His wrongdoings have already been brought to light and his reputation tarnished. His power over others was his clout as a creator and NOT him physically abusing others. I wouldn't want someone who was also a victim of grooming and who is still young himself to go to prison which could ruin his life even further than it already had been when he himself was groomed himself as a minor.
--------------------
I hope the takeaway here isn't simply to throw people under the bus when they become inconvenient and call it a day. It's to have a wider conversation on the glorification of pornography in the furry, especially when there's minors whose developing minds are exposed to harmful ideas about consent and sexuality that leaves them vulnerable to predators.
If we are to prevent future victims of grooming or give them a place of refuge, we have to build community. If we are to fight back against perpetrators who refuse to take accountability for their actions or who contribute to the production, distribution or consumption of CSAM, we have to be organised.
The victims of grooming here were isolated and vulnerable and who took any community they could find. To beat the false warmth of love-bombing we can't just be cold and callous to others from the sidelines. We need to approach this with real warmth, with empathy towards even Leo as he's only part of the cyclical perpetuation of groomers.
And we need to have a firm stance on what is and isn't acceptable so we don't spend time arguing in circles. How to include minors (if even at all) and how to deal with creators forced into leadership positions by their followers who both refuse to take responsibility for the power dynamic this creates, where individuals are suddenly responsible for the morality of hundreds if not thousands of strangers. What qualifies as kink that adults can fully communicate and consent to and what takes advantage of those who lack the capacity or agency to meaningfully consent.
I hope I'm not coming across as forgiving of Leo, far from it. But I want us to appreciate how Leo has consented to his own deplatforming and how rare this is in a time where dickheads and actual criminals often shirk accountability and coast off of the residual goodwill by preying on our collective isolation and porn addictions.
God the furry community can be dumb and awful.
--------------------
Original callout post: https://twitter.com/P1NS_N_NEEDLES/status/1773501038978646527
Reply tweet by Leo (locked so I'll link the pdfs within): https://twitter.com/LeoTheLionel/status/1773549458678030571
Leo's confession: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PtroKDxnheI8uxARSpWCL_xc6qlK1yh0ZK2OjfKYlq8/...
Leo's response to the callout post: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ks5rPHxG93FEh0tppEPpBG5euHEe69En7IVkY22KyWA/...
Update: found some more stuff about how Shi (the one who sent the callout post) was yet another groomer in the perpetual chain.
Tweet calling out how Shi tried to send nudes to them: https://twitter.com/LokiBaraHot/status/1773553543963701299
Follow up tweet by another one of Shi's victims: https://twitter.com/Vanillanomas/status/1773701678933397753
This corroborates with Leo's response to Shi (starts with a short opener by Leo, then one of Shi's exes/victims takes over for the rest of it): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ks5rPHxG93FEh0tppEPpBG5euHEe69En7IVkY22KyWA/...
There's a pattern of those mollifying Shi's actions completely while fully condemning Leo due to their age difference at 17 and 22 respectively when they offended. Honestly? As someone in their 30's anybody that's 25 or younger are all just kids to me. The brain doesn't stop developing until then and victims of abuse (like Leo and Shi are) tend to develop slower mentally. As a victim of abuse myself I can corroborate that in retrospect.
It's also why I can't help but feel bad for him, like me he would have also barely had any control over himself (my abuse was predominantly verbal and physical so I lashed out verbally and physically against others and myself in turn during my early adult years). It's only last year until his brain begin to fully mature at the age of 23-24 did he allegedly stop grooming minors. That he continued work on his game after the hiatus. If his offenses weren't so dire, he may have been poised to make a full recovery and integrated himself into society as a proper adult.
Again I'm not excusing their actions, but I do want to give perspective on how a 22 year old could possibly act far below their maturity for their fully adult brain (they're not fully developed yet and trauma has potentially stunted their growth on top of that).
Brief article on the science on trauma: https://www.multiplyingconnections.org/science-behind-trauma
why there always be drama in a good games... i don't wanna sided with the 2.. but just why ...
What happened?
creator is a bad person if that's what you mean
edit wth did i get -5 yall i just told u the truth😭
What do you mean by "bad person" though
he groomed smb, idrk tho so u should do your own research on him
i only said that bc when i said that hes a gr00mer i got a lot of downvotes so i just tried to say bad person and still got a lot of downvotes i cant-😭
DAMN IT I REALLY LIKED THIS GAME TOO :/
fr I loved this game so much too😭
i think its best that everyone should know about this.....https://x.com/LeoTheLionel/status/1773549458678030571?s=20
The post got deleted/is unavailable, could you do a TLDR please?
Leo sent some "things" to a minor over texts. The OG post was him admitting to it. But there is some debate that the two of them were of legal age in The Philippines. At least that's what I could gather. I'm still in denial that this happened. Leo was a big inspiration to me.
The victims weren't also from the Philippines, which means their own AoC laws would apply. But even then it's still extremely suspect.
Ah, I see.
Leo admitted to grooming multiple children as young as 14.
He ended up deleting every channel in his discord server, potentially deleting any evidence against him, and deleting himself from social media.
The story so far is really good, I hope we'll get a continuation soon <3
Is it tho? His country is a little behind on the times, it could actually be legal. I wish the chats could be shared so we had more info. I never trust any internet drama these days, its too easy to accuse someone with no evidence.
just went through the drama, the other guy kept saying hes legal hes legal. like dude, youre not as innocent in this
"Behind on the times"??? Ugh I hate when Americans do this. Since when did American morality become the standard for the world? Since when did having other cultures become being "behind on the times"? The American AoC is just as arbitrary as countries with lower ages, the human brain fully develops at 25 so until you raise it I don't see how a country having consent laws at 16 is wrong.
Heres a map of age of consent in Europe, America is an outlier even in the developed world. I'll be honest I support a high AoC but thats my individual moral opinion and other people and other cultures are something that I don't have the authority to dictate.
Heres a video from England that will mortify everyone across the pond. Of course a majority said no, but the fact that it was even on the table of debate even shocks me a bit.
Actually it just came to my attention that the US AoC isnt even a federal law! Its up to the states! And most states have lowered it!! So apparently half of America (including New York) is behind on the times but like Tennessee isn't. I always have loved country music.
Thanks for the unnecessary input, but I couldn't care less. I'm just here to enjoy the visual novel for what it is. Keep the drama elsewhere.
dude you said "i hope it will be continued" i said "artist is bad person he's not on the internet anymore" and you got mad??
sorry for bringing up drama i just had to tell that there will be no continuation
I guess we will never know...
Edit: woho that's too much drama around here
Such wasted potential...
The game was great. I kinda like Cade, Dylan and Tyler. I like mostly Cade, because he gives the best hugs and kind cute to see his puppy looking eyes. The story was great and funny. I hope the game will be continued soon😊.
What a shame.
damn shame :(
I'm kinda glad I'm not really a part of this furry fandom to be honest. Wouldn't want that to happen to me
just played both, really like both game, and played with points with Ace and realized how bad I acted with one of my fav characters lol.... I am just waiting to play the continuation of the new version which seemed much more improved
The only part i liked about the original story is that you unalive yourself by jumping out the window since...why not? It's funny just waking up and seeing furries before getting 'you died lol' screen
Really loved the original story and the reboot is really good to. I think Tyler benefited the most from the redesign. They did Sidney wrong tho, my boy went from a bit anti-social to straight depressed. And they did Lars dirty, he used to be a quirky person but now he's actin like a... I don't think there's anyway to put it lightly.
Yes,unless the creator wants the game to become slowly NSFW it makes no sense Lars change even to his body!
Finally an update i have been waiting.
I love the reboot so much, honestly I didn't like Lars that much in the original, but in the new version he's so entertaining lol I'm looking forward to the next update since I'm starving for Ace content
Keep the good work! <3
Update request:
- Please add gender choice ((Male, Female, etc...))
There's a reason it has the gay and bara tags.
You choose male it still gay add choice and it will be bisexual (or everyone) i don't care if it will have neutral pronouns like Under The Bridge at least it will have choice even for straight people,if is a SFW visual novel there will be only CGs with people kissing like Under The Bridge!Also i hate bara things but this one has a very fine art style and cute characters!
It is clear that most of furry community hate gender equality
It's a gay focused game. There is nothing wrong with this. Just like there is nothing wrong with straight, bi, lesbian or pan. It's ok to make female or male focused games, it's also ok to make trans focused games. What's not ok is to try to make the creator deviate and make their creation what you think it should be.
IT GOT UPDATED OH EM GEEEEEE
Is the reboot version compatible for Windows? I can only download the old one.
IT FINALLY GOT UPDATED?! WHAT THE FUCK?!
It's a miracle. It truly is. Glad you're back Leo!
And Lars is the most dangerous character that I have ever seen in a VN. Everytime he looks at me I just feel my heart wanna leap out of my chest and his damn cheeky ass smile is burned into my head that my spine always tingles in sensation that I might be falling in love with him... If Lars is confirmed as a top then I will go FUCKING FERAL AS LARS FIT MY "WHORE OUT" CHECKMARKS OH MY FUCKING GODS.
IM FREAKING THE FUCK OUT!
Cant wait for the full Reboot Keep up the Hard Work Leo You can do it
Man, this is amazing! Also, Lars is T H I C K!!
I can't help but wait for every new update. Love the characters especially Lars and Cade. The MC feels over reactive sometimes but maybe it is because I am old.
I can't seem to download the reboot version. What do I need to do?
It's great to see more of this VN again. I've been missing it!
😂
I just finished with the lars ending I need more. :(
dude... this game... is awesome
no really it's good
I am about to start genuienly tweaking if this shit dont update
It's updated now. You can come back! Don't freak the fuck out!
This was one of my first itch.io games I ever downloaded and played. Even tho am not gay I do like cute things and the art is just awasome I do hope that adult scenes are purely optional tho . Otherwise game is great and you should play it y'all!
I have a feeling you guys watch Steven Universe. I don't think its a coincidence that Lars loves Ube rolls haha. Great game!
I know right
good game
does the 1 mean there is more then one end credit scene?
its the same thing with Sidney what are the things i have to do to unlock the second scene
asti y'ava un ours qui ma séquestré dans ca grange calisse.
So i saw the game updated notif on my following feed but there isnt a devlog for this update, would anyone mind explaining what has updated?
I don't have PayPal buy can I pay with my credit card
Tem como ter relação sexual com algum personagem, e se tiver me fala como conseguir essa relação
i wish this was a dating game so i could date lars
Hell yeah, I remember playing the original almost 2 years ago. I tried the reboot and I'm liking it so far. Lars is and has been my favorite. I like how he's more flirty now with the protagonist, but his new design's going to take me a while to get used to. I'm looking forward to future updates and also I sent you $2. Hey, not much but a good game deserves to be rewarded ;)
New images looking fire!! 🔥🔥
Finally!!!!! UwU
IT LOOK SO GOOD!!!