Indie game storeFree gamesFun gamesHorror games
Game developmentAssetsComics
SalesBundles
Jobs
Tags

Game Selection Support

A topic by C/NC-Z0E created Nov 11, 2023 Views: 782 Replies: 23
This topic is archived. It is unlisted and no new posts can be made.
Viewing posts 1 to 7

Hey Itch!

While at first, I was happy to find a website that supports independent game makers, I am deeply disappointed and frustrated with your organization.

It appears that you have blurred  "Furry", "Beastiality", and "Gay" games.

"Gay" does not mean "men fucking animals", or masculine anthropedic beings, fucking animals.

"Gay" also does not mean "animals fucking animals"!!!

So why, when searching "Gay" games on your website, are 90% of the games Furry or Beastiality games?  

For that matter, the vast majority of people who enjoy the "Furry" lifestyle are straight men and women.  Yes some people who enjoy "Furry" are in fact, gay, but it is clear to EVERYONE that "Gay" and "Furry" are very different indeed. 

Does Itch.io consider gay people less than human?

On a related topic, I am frankly surprised that no one has come to break your door down for hosting so, SO MANY beastiality games clearly styled for, and aimed at, minors.  Again, why would these games be found in the "Gay" search terms? 

Does Itch.io consider gay people pedophilic, and/or bent toward having sex with animals? 

"Bear" with me, and take my email seriously this time.... separate the game genre's before people take great offense.

PS-  What is your actual "Support" email?  The link you provide attempts to open my Mac's internal email system.   That method opens doors into my system.   Is this on purpose?  Is there a reason you want to be able to enter my personal computer?


Moderator(+3)

...First of all, clicking an e-mail address in your browser normally opens the e-mail client installed on your computer. That's how it works, That's how it always worked. No-one is "opening doors into your system". Your e-mail client is how you send e-mail. Please educate yourself on how your own computer works.

...Second, actual academic research found years ago that 80% of furries are queer. Please educate yourself on the matter.

...Third, if you're equating furries with bestiality, you have a problem, and nobody else. I'm not even sure where you pulled that one from. Please educate yourself.

You're drawing bizarre conclusions from a dubious chain of reasoning. I don't even.

https://www.trustwave.com/en-us/resources/blogs/spiderlabs-blog/an-in-depth-look...

(+3)

I am going to leave aside any controversial topic, to focus on a detail that No Time To Play did not mention.

The tags are not placed by Itch, but rather each developer places the tags that they consider appropriate for their game.

  The tags work cumulatively. In other words, if someone has a game about "birds" and "apples" and places those tags, if tomorrow you search for games with "birds" that game has the tag "birds" and it will appear in the search, even if it also has the tag " apples." This is how all search engines work.

Your threat is not against Itch, but against all the people who have made those games.

(4 edits)

In the picture I posted, can you point out a single game where you there are human beings dressed in Furry costumes?
Are you serious that you cannot discern human protagonists, in childlike cartoon imagery, having sex with animals? These are not other humans, queer or not, dressed in Furry outfits.  Not A One.  What is actually on your search results under "Gay". .... Cartoonish, Humans or actual animals anthropomorphized having interspecies sex with each other.

The website doesn't police itself?  So I can make a pedophilic game with heavy BDSM elements, C/NC, or worse, and place the tags "Birds" or "Apples" over the top of it and thats just...."OK" with Itch?  That's OK with the community?  Like it or not, I am one of you.  I have reason to protect independent game creation.  There are no threats.   Telling your friend to slow down because they are driving way, way too fast,(irresponsibly) is not a threat.  It is strong advice that may save you both.   Itch should discern its genres.  Leaving it up to the game makers, likely many of them are minors too, is straight up irresponsible and opens itself up to being shut down.

Both responses are somewhere between guilt ridden defensiveness, or people putting on blinders to their own reality.

OH!   Would you like me to send you a link that automatically opens your email client?  You trust that I haven't dosed that link with a door opener?   Please educate yourself on modern day security.  My banks, credit card companies, and any other organization that takes security seriously, and wants their customers to trust them, stopped opening email clients well over 10 years ago.   Maybe more.

Moderator(+1)

You can make whatever you want. We're not the taste police. If you see something that's actually illegal, there's a report button in the footer of every project page. Please use it, and itch.io staff will take a look.

And yes, actually, clicking some links in the browser will open another app on your computer. Once again, that's how desktop operating systems work. This is not a security issue in any way, shape or form. You're making stuff up.

(2 edits)

https://www.trustwave.com/en-us/resources/blogs/spiderlabs-blog/an-in-depth-look...

I can provide another dozen of extremely indepth reasons why your "mailto" system can be exploited, or used to exploit.

I cannot remember if this is the person that suggested I should educate myself.   Please, Please, educate yourself.

Oh, I see now.  You say I am "making things up".

Moderator (2 edits) (+1)

No, but I'll say your reading comprehension is sorely lacking. That article describes a ransomware attack that was nicknamed "MailTo" for indirect reasons that have very little to do with e-mail addresses. So yes, please educate yourself.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/some-email-clients-are-vulnerable-to-attacks-via-m...

https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/235427/what-are-the-dangers-of-a-ma...

https://adamsilver.io/blog/the-trouble-with-mailto-email-links-and-what-to-do-in...

Back in your court.   Do I have to provide 3 more?  I can.

Please educate and save you and your customers future issues.

Why do you defend "mailto" to the grave?  Does it give you identifying information?  What is your benefit? 

Your argument that it is "convenient for the customer" is not true.   I am already signed into my email, yet your system forces me to re-sign in.

AND, it is a dubious system whether you believe it or not.

(2 edits) (+2)

yet your system forces me to re-sign in.

A mailto link isn’t a system. If you have multiple e-mail clients, it is your system that is simply poorly configured.

Your first link refers to four vulnerabilities in different software that are now all patched.

The exploit in your second link relies on the attacked actually pressing the Send button, revealing their preferred e-mail address. How do you expect Itch to know to whom they are speaking without knowing your address?

The third link isn’t even a vulnerability.

The first link speaks of some serious stuff, but if some implementations having vulnerabilities is enough to throw away an entire protocol, then we would’ve thrown away HTTP because some servers are prone to path traversal. The article is from 2020, anyway.

Lastly, the mailto link is visible to everyone: mailto:support@itch.io. No attach parameter, no nothing.

Moderator(+1)

I'm defending a little something called truth. You keep trying to accuse itch.io of I'm not sure what, using sources you clearly didn't read and didn't understand. No need to "believe" anything. Learn to use your own sources.

Moderator(+1)

No, need, just read those articles and try to actually understand what they're saying. You are not and can't be in danger simply from clicking such a link, even by mistake. Especially not on a trusted website. Reading comprehension, what a concept.

(+2)

Tell me you don't know how a computer works without telling me you know how a computer works. That link is called a Mailto link, it is basically a hyperlink for your email client (If any) and will try to open said client to paste the To field in for you. It is not malicious, it does not open any backdoors, it is literally just a time saver for people who use mail clients. You can easily set it to a web browser to send that To: field to a web client like Yahoo or Gmail as well. Try to learn a feature that has been on the web for longer than you've likely been alive before you call it malicious immediately, will you?

As for your arguments... Search engines will have certain things they look for, one of which is popularity. You can clearly see you are looking for the most popular games with that tag in your own screenshot. Do you know how insanely big the furry fandom in general is? Do you know that for the most part they police themselves far harder than you would try to police them, because they don't like seeing people use the furry card as an excuse to do some vile things? Seriously, grow up. These games are not aimed at minors, any with actual sexual content will warn you it is 18+ only.

You aren't trying to protect independent game creation with this sorry excuse of an argument. You're looking at something you don't like, drawing conclusions with a lack of evidence and critical thinking, and immediately assuming the worst and trying to beat people over the head with your newfound logic. Not only that, you're making horrendously false assumptions. Most furries are straight? Have you seen the furry fandom? Clearly you haven't, it's got a massive swathe of people who are all over the LGBT+ spectrum, if anything I think straight people are in the minority. The games you're finding have bestiality? Doubt it, unless it's creatures you wouldn't find IRL like Dragons. Then again, that wouldn't fit the definition at that point - as bestiality doesn't apply to creatures that don't exist, including anthropomorphic versions of animals. The games are aimed at minors? As I said earlier, they are not, quit deluding yourself into thinking they are. A cartoonish look doesn't mean something is made for, or aimed at, minors. 

If you truly do think you're in the right, step back and do some research and critical thinking. You're making a mountain out of a molehill, because if this truly was the problem you think it is it would have been shut down years ago. They are not pedophiliac, do not contain bestiality, they are not aimed at children, they are not unpoliced by either the site or their own community, and they are not made by minors. This is a hit piece on something you do not like, plain and simple. Take a step back and calm down before returning to this thread if you truly care - because right now you're blindly hating on this just because the furry fandom exists and you think its an issue, at least in my eyes.

Well you are right.  I don't like the genre.  Of course, I have my reasons for not liking it.

Critical thinking... interesting.

bestiality /bĕs″chē-ăl′ĭ-tē, bēs″-/

noun

  1. The quality or condition of being an animal or like an animal.
  2. Conduct or an action marked by depravity or brutality.
  3. Sexual relations between a human and an animal.

By definition, what you are attempting to describe as "Furry" is actually bestiality.  You can thrash against that truth as long as you like to.  It doesn't change The Fact that it is an ill fitted tag and IMO, should not be the overwhelming search outcome when someone searches for "Gay" games.

My argument is "Gay" is not "Furry".  Itch, as a website would do better by attempting to direct us to games with the content we are actually looking for and should "police" the website for creators that over uses tags to come up in every fucking search conducted.  That is why we are limited everywhere else in life from adding every tag we can think of just to get more hits on our games, videos, posts, podcasts, etc. etc.

Itch has a Furry category, if I want to find a Furry game, that is where I search.  If I want that Furry game to be Furry, and also be Gay themed or have a Gay theme included,(because not all Furries are Gay, and not all Gay people are Furries)   THEN I add to the search the "Gay" tag.

1. -Furry-

2. -Gay-

My friend, that is how a "good" search engine works.  Please assert you authority on search engines elsewhere.

Lets check that authority on search engines and make a search of "Blonde Women or Blonde Men".  You are right, it won't ALL be blonde women/men, but it won't come up Overwhelmingly with brunettes, and it certainly won't come up overwhelmingly with anthropomorphic cartoon animals.  I am sorry that "cartoon" must offend you.  Should I use digitally rendered, to look hand drawn, which most people might find reminiscent of cartoons?

This is at least the 3rd time I have attempted to contact Itch on this.  This is the first time anyone has ever responded, and you are right, I am mad.  I am exasperated, and I have long ago taken my business elsewhere.  It is my fault that I keep making the mistake of checking back to see if Itch fixed this issue, and trust me, just because its outcome is of your preference, please use your "critical thinking",  and you will see it is an issue.

Knowing the phrase "critical thinking" doesn't mean that you are actually using it yourself, and that I am not.

I am willing to bet that the overwhelming percentage, and perhaps not a single game in your "Furry" category is actually about human beings, gay or not, who are dressed in animal clothing and interacting with each other.  AND, it shouldn't be the overwhelming outcome to the simple search term "Gay", no matter how "popular" you think it is, or how much you personally love it.  I feel you have blinded yourself to your own preferences.

Lastly, Don't say I didn't warn you when some parent comes into their kids room and finds this type of content and freaks out.  They will claim that it is directed at minors, and you won't be able to disprove it.  Their simple minded attack will be all that they will need to convince "officials" or "authorities" to come down hard on everyone.  That is when EVERY game creator, and game fans will suffer and Itch will be attacked by say, Patreon, and/or PayPal, and other forces of Fascism.  SubscribeStar has remained the better, more open-minded choice, but that is only a matter of time before it succumbs to pressure too.

Here is a real world example.  Craigslist shutdown its personals section because there was a tiny fraction of instances where people had used it to abuse people or sex traffic.  CL folded under the pressure and shut it down completely.

Craigslist did not shut down selling personal goods to others, even though the ripoff percentage is/was far greater percentage comparatively.  These including home invasions and many assaults during transactions.  These tragedies continue still but they will never shut it down.  I won't dare to put a percentage on this as the percentage police will use that as an attempt to dismantle my actual argument.

Anything that offends the wrong "stiff" with sex involved, will get shutdown, no questions asked.  Sadly that is America's Puritan legacy.

I am concerned for independent game creators, and for all of us who enjoy these games, whether you want to believe it or not.

I have said my peace.  You will be relieved to hear that I won't make the mistake of ever coming back.

https://www.trustwave.com/en-us/resources/blogs/spiderlabs-blog/an-in-depth-look...

Dozens more articles on why "mailto" links are dangerous for everyone.  Just look it up, but don't tell me I am "making things up".

The itch.io community rules can be found here and the content quality guidelines can be found here.

It is highly recommended to familiarize yourself with the rules and follow them as repeated infractions or severe infractions may result in account suspension.

I have read them.  Please point out to me what you see as infractions.   Should I receive your email as a threat to suspend my account?

Wouldn't that put you at odds with the community rules?

(+2)

You seemed to have missed do not use unrelated tags or classificationsavoid using shock images, loud noises, flashing imagery, or obnoxious material and adult content must be labeled.

You are clearly not arguing in good faith in this thread. 

As this thread keeps going it becomes more and more obvious that you are not interested in taking in any new information and would prefer to remain willfully ignorant.

A moderator could therefore decide to archive this thread under the "No flaming, trolling, spamming, or other disruptive behavior" rule. Or no rule at all because we all know we can't hold them accountable and no one use going to mind.

Happy to help.

Moderator(+1)

Alright, I'm putting an end to this. Thanks for the help, everyone, and sorry.

So why, when searching "Gay" games on your website, are 90% of the games Furry

You are sorting for popular. So ask the people playing those games. Seriously. It is the same BS with the complainers that do not like horror games. It is on top of popular, because it is popular. You can go a step further. You will see those games, even when only filtering for adult games. On page one there is like half a dozen furry games. One of them not sporting the gay tag.

Also as was pointed out, tags here are chosen by the devs, not by itch. The tags are not even from a fixed pool of tags. Devs can invent new ones. That is why there is a gazillion tags for "non mainstream" stuff.

Well there is the argument.  If I search say, "apple pie", should I have to weed through 90% of "blueberry pies"?

No matter what you choose for "sorting", whether its "Popular" or anything else, the result is minutely different, yet exactly the same.

The search system is clearly not effective.  Unless cartoon, furry is what you like.    Does it matter that "Furry" is not the actual activity happening?  "Furry" is actually humans dressed or made up to resemble animals.  Not anthropomorphic fantasy.  The genre "Sci-fi", is closer to what I see here than "Furry".

Leaving that dead end argument behind because everyone here has long decided that this is "Furry" content.

So, when I search "BDSM" should I get a massive amount of Vanilla games/VNs?  Or vice versa?  Whether I am searching on "Popular" or any other selector.  

IF I search "Futa" should I be getting mostly "Furry" games?  OR vice versa?

IF I search "3D" should I receive a majority of "2D"?


Anyway, I wish the best for everyone here.  After being so frustrated that I couldn't get any response from Itch, it is clear that my advice is not well received, or somehow believed, not even in the face of facts, and even "Redonihunter" is threatening to "Suspend My Account".  Not sure on what grounds.

How sad.  I am sorry to hold a mirror up to you guys.  Good luck with all that.

(1 edit) (+3)

It is not a problem that advice is not well received.

If not, you are not giving advice. If not, then from your ignorance you come to try to impose your vision which is NOT correct.
We have tried to explain several things to you, but you make NO effort to try to understand what we are telling you.
Every thing they say to you, you take it as an attack that must be answered from your wrong point of view.

Do you want to give advice and have it be well received?

Try to be more humble, if everyone is telling you that you were wrong, it is very likely that you are wrong. Think about that instead of just answering from your ignorance.

I'm going to try one last time, see if you're really interested.

You're not just searching for "Apple Pie," you're searching for "pie."
As you search by "pie", the system will show you all the "pie".
If the community (not the Itch administration) consumes "blueberry pie". The system will show you that first.
That simple concept, you don't seem to want to understand. and that is the problem, is that you make that effort to not understand something that is very simple. You got it into your head that Itch is bad and all you're looking for is reinforcement. And of course you are going to feel frustrated, because no one is going to reinforce your idea, because it is wrong.

The same with "mailto", your ignorance makes you see things that are not, but instead of recognizing your mistake you persist in them. It's normal for you to feel frustrated.

Don't you like "blueberry pie"?

Perfect, it's your taste, your decision and no one has to change it.

If the community of a place mostly consumes that content. Why should they accommodate your wishes? They have been consuming and enjoying that content and only because you arrive and you don't like it. Should they change it?

Do you realize how arrogant and ignorant you sound?

Don't want to see "blueberry pie" in your search?

Ask how you can do a search without that content. But no, instead of asking questions or suggesting improvements, what you come to is criticize thousands of people who consume "bluberry pie", in a way that, let's be honest, is not the best.

That's the problem, don't ask us to understand you, when you don't want to understand what we tell you. Especially because you arrive at a place. You are the new one.

(+2)

You are technically correct that calling anthropomorphic animals in a game "furry" is not accurate for the usual real world definition of the term furry, since such a thing like anthropomorphic animals does not exist.

But you are mistaken in your game tagging assessment, what furry means. It means what people make it mean. And in gaming it has evolved to include anthropomorphic animals. (Oh, and the word gay actually means cheerful. But it evolved to mean male homosexuality. Curious, how meanings of words can adapt, isn't it.)

Also, as I said, complain to the players and the devs for using those tags and for making them popular. Itch is not the one to blame for. Sure, you can complain that itch does not have curated tags. We all do. But you insist they are somehow at fault for peoples taste in games or usage of tags.

I have no clue why you think I could threaten your account or where I should have done so. You are probaby mistaken me for someone else. If you speak about that other post from another person, you do not even apply the meaning of email or post correctly there.

And what's with the insinstence that the existence of link handling in your operation system is the fault of itch? A "mailto" link is a html link, just like any other link. If you click on https://itch.io/ in, for example an pdf document or your mail client, or your document viewer, your system will open your designated web browser. There are several kinds of html links, should you bother to learn about them. They start with a href. Oh look, like that one:

<a href="mailto:email@example.com">Send Email</a>

a href. Now what to do if I were your operating system? Now, of course open your designated web br... oh, that is a mail link, so open your designated mail client.

And do not confuse search for browsing tags. That is different. You have a search box to insert search terms. And there is tag box to click or type in tags. If you type apples in the search box, you will find a randomly and truncated list of results, that the search algorithm deems relevant for the search term apples. If you write in apples in the tag box, you will get a complete list of all games that were tagged by the developers with apples. The list will be sorted a little bit according to some popularity criteria, but it will include each and every item a dev tagged apples, wether apples is applicable or correct for the game - or not.

Moderator archived this topic