I went Cliff > Nik > Sam > Nik > Cliff > Murdoch > Cliff > Will > And I think Nik will have to be my number 1 because I'm too much like Cliff and need a big hard working badger in my life to belly flop on top of me as I fall asleep. Yeah I think that's going to be it. That will be my decision. I like it.
hey, so we are having this argument in the Echo Project Wiki over William's sexuality, about whether he is homosexual or bisexual, if is not a bother, would you mind settling the matter?
William is homosexual. Many gay people in the US were coerced into marriage for colonialist purposes, and that's a major component of William's story. There are several major bi characters though, like Cliff, Todd, James and his wife, Dora and Jim. The majority of a sexually segregated workforce in Echo at this time period would express bisexuality and m/m relationships in some fashion based on historical trends and evidence. Homophobic attitudes would still coexist in some capacity with this realty as well.
ok, i've played through most routes (except cliff's, halfway through it) and i want to review this vn. i've seen the drama on twitter over it, and i agree partly with some of the criticism, though i don't agree how some people go about criticizing the game. when i mean criticism, i mean people talking about the narrative's inconsistencies.
spoilers ahead btw. also everything i write below is subject to change, since the vn is not complete yet and i myself change my opinions on things from time to time. who knows, maybe when the game launches i'll write another one.
the thing i saw most on twitter when people were criticizing the game was how many NSFW scenes there were. people said it was too much and yadda yadda, and i half agree with it and half disagree. the protag is a literal whore. it's kinda expexted for there to be a lot of sugestive scenes ain't it? and second, you can have a good history VN with a lot of sugestive stuff in it (burrows for example). though i do think some of them feel out of left field, like the one with hendricks on cliffs route, the one with todd on the shed and kane's. and i have something to say about kane's specifically.
the other thing people said about the game was the non-consentual act on kane's scene. that's undeniable, it's implied (at least how i see it) that william passed out in the middle of it. even before he passed out, he didn't really consent to do half the things kane told him to do. i feel this can't just be ignored on the upcoming william update. william's route has to do something further and not just go "well that just happened ig" and just keep moving. i feel this has to be addresed in some way with the seriousness the topic of r4pe and SA deserves next william update, or further up.
aside from this, i like where the history is going on the routes. i like how diferent they all are to each other and my favorite would probavly be between william and nik's. i hope we see more of how this game ties in with echo in the next update. since echo had 63 updates, and tsr is on the 33rd, i'm guessing we're close to seeing the ending of the histories.
I want to point out a few disagreements and inconsistencies on your post.
Also Spoilers
*******************************************
When you talk about Kane's scene. First you say its "undeniable" that this was non-consensual and immediately follow by saying "It was implied that he passed out in the middle of the scene". That absolutely didn't happened AT ALL and I don't know what do you read to make you think that was remotely implied. At least you acknowledge when you wrote in parenthesis "(at least how i see it)" that your view is subjective, because even if you saw it like that, that's not what happened in the slightest.
You also said "he didn't really consent to do half the things Kane told him to do". I don't understand. Half of what things?
Kane kisses Will----Will responds with "He is damn good". Will likes that
Kane makes Will kneel---- Will responds with "What the hell am I doing down here if not to do exactly what he's expecting". He is willing to try a thing that was repressed because of his father, if he didn't want that , he could easily just stand up and go. Which ties to the next part.
Will remembers the time when he was doing THIS EXACT SAME THING with someone HE LIKED but he was denied by his homophobic father. However Will says "I know this time isn't going to be like the last time SAM IS HERE WITH ME" Because in order to arrive at this point of the story and this scene, one of the choices was
"If you can allow for things to go where they need to, then so can I."
Kane says "Lick balls to base"---Will says "So I give him what WE BOTH want"
Kane makes Will go deeper and says to Sam "Even I wouldn't have FOLLOWED those orders WITHOUT a little RESISTANCE"----- Will says after "I am good at following orders, right? Even when they TASTE BAD. But I can't pretend ANY OF THIS TASTE BAD"
"I NEEED THIS"
The only thing that Will "didn't consent" was him finishing in his face instead of his mouth. And some folks make it sound that William was being waterboarded with cum in some sort of torture device. All the while the whole scene reads that Will is pretty much into it and we were given a lot of context in past updates about Will's psyche. Some of this r4pe and SA takes I have heard are from people that either:
1 Forgot some of the context of past updates,
2 Gloss over the context that the current William update prior to the Kane scene or
3 Are folks from a certain age that shouldn't be reading this VN because by nature they lack the understanding and maturity to read into these scenes due to their young age.
There is also a fourth point. People not liking when a character doesn't feet their preconceived notions but to each their own.
I do agree with you that I also hope the route just doesn't keep moving and go "Well that just happened". I would love to hear what Will feels after overcoming a very deep seeded barrier put out by an homophobic father and able to overcome that thanks to SAM with Kane (Someone he likes), even when he was hesitant at the beginning.
i was writing a reply but the power went out. it was a shame cause i wrote a lot. i'll just boil down what i was gonna say and some more.
i went and replayed his route (granted, i skipped scenes that didn't involve william poking his brain) and i agree with you that most people on twitter forgot some of the context prior the stag part and sk did i. william did agree verbally/non verbally but what led me to have those opinions was this line"i mean to stand ground, but i'm dizzy" after kane put him os his knees and sam a bit later "be patient with him, he's had more than a shot". completely forgot that liquid courage is def something. i said i agree with some thing they said, i still do but nah, they tripping on this scene. i gotta say tho: william won't magically just overcome his conflicts and internalized homophobia with this scene alone (this month i think we'll have the next update, we'll see how it will play out)
also replaying his route, i can't say exactly why but i feel murdoch and william are two sides of the same coin. i already noticed playing murd's route and i thought it again replaying will's. probably because they're both conflicted but i won't elaborate and just let this marinate. maybe when both their routes end.
also the pass out thing: i said it was in the middle of the scene, i meant the end before the "to be continued", that was miscommunication on my part ("i remember just one thing before darkness overtakes me: sam wiping the filth out of me"). but re-reading it, yeah reached back there, not even gonna lie. it's open ended, so again, only next update we'll know how it turned out.
side thing: i remembered i had made a post here on itch months ago on how sudden the stag scene felt, and even on this thread original post. it flew over my head when i posted it, but it's good to know there will be changes in the future
(Definitely check out the patreon build that just came out if you are willing to support us. There have been major edits for pacing around the stag scene.)
When I want to play the game the TSR-32 file cannot be opened, in build 31 it could be opened normally and translated, now that I download build 33 I cannot open it either, there is another file with the name TSR I can open it but I cannot translate it As in build 31, is there an error in the TSR-33 file?
Yeah there is I believe. If you click the extra button which on the main menu its shows you all the chapters out for each character. Which you can then click what chapter you would like to be at for said character. I do hope this was helpful in someway.
ughhhhh i want more cliff content!!! but ive recently started with the murdoch playthrough, and jeeeeez you guys never cease to fail!!! i cant wait to play through the other builds of this game!!! :3 i imagine they are all so amazing!!
HOW COULD THEY DO THAT, HE DIDNT DO NOTHING WRONG??? This update has left me in tears to say the least... I really am dreading what the next update for niks route is going to be, i pray it goes well. I pray 🙏
does anyone knows if there is some kind of summary of what happens in the routes and the stuff that happens in every desition? im slow and my english reading compression is really bad as english is not my first lenguage 😔
we know that sam is followed by a creature/ghost? in william's route, there's also a skeleton like creature in the mirror and ceiling. are both these creatures/ghost actually the same being or are they different?
There's no drama. It's just literal 16 year olds interacting with NSFW content publicly, not liking it, and making stuff up because they don't like it. Ignore it and enjoy the VN lol
Yeah this game's content goes beyond "it's just not for me" territory with meta knowledge of George as a person. No, I don't necessarily think George is a pedophile, but the content of the game may or may not reflect some of his... personal proclivities and that makes some of the racier content harder to tolerate.
More importantly, I think the game started heading into a poor direction once Howly left the project. It's clear that George crushes up against that original vision and it makes for a jarring and inconsistent read. I think Cliff and Murdoch's routes are solid-to-fantastic on a good day, and utterly abysmal on a bad one. Nik is pretty bland and the less said about William Update 30 the better.
I think we'd all do better as a community and as people in general if we were more open to criticism. I think the content in this game being so dark and heavy is fine, but I don't think it's done well in a lot of cases. Both George and the Echo Project community seem extremely resistant to criticism no matter how well -intentioned it is, and that lack of willingness to learn and grow from past mistakes is evident in the final product being produced. This game (and especially Arches) are only better than Echo, insofar as being less buggy and having less typos.
Since George hates Cliff apparently and with that route's writer being gone, I don't think I'll be continuing to read TSR in the future :/ Maybe I wouldn't be so sour on this game if you could express any genuine criticism of it without an ocean of sycophants with a parasocial relationship to George whining about it, but that isn't the world we live in.
I hope George has grown past the nasty things accused of him and is a better person, I really do. Maybe I'll give this game another shot once/if a new Cliff update releases.
Hello. Since the crux of this argument is about honest criticism, we need to address true things.
1. I have written more than ninety-five percent of this project. The content of this project that howly wrote was:
-half of the introduction before the route split, until nik is first introduced.
-The very beginning of the nik route until before yao is first introduced.
Howly had some very loose ideas about Nik and Will. He wanted will to be married and have some homophobic elements to his character perspectives. He wanted Nik to be a heart-felt love story. I have done my best to uphold these original ideas while letting a good portion of myself enter the story, such as exploring labor History in Nik route, and Mystery elements and themes of homosexual shame and self-loathing in Will route.
I'm sorry you are not interested in the labor politics of nik route or Will's self-exploration of himself, but, these are coming from places of genuine humanity.
2. I do not consider an overwhelming amount of this game dark. A lot of it is a celebration of the progressive movement in America before things go bad. I try to do a mix of good and bad things to tell a story of the town in this era. A lot of it does veer dark due to the nature of the horror genre.
3. I do not hate Cliff. I have cowritten him since the beginning with Redd, and have written a heavy amount of the portion of his story. I like weasels, and even used to have a weasel fursona a long time ago! I just never wanted to portray Cliff as a suave cool guy, because a lot of his story is so heavily tied to themes of the nastier side of anthropology and colonization that America did in this time era, and to some extent still does today.
If Cliff had not been an anthropologist, we probably could have gone in a drastically different direction with him. But I think the role of the Meseta needed more presence and we used Cliff's story to explore that more.
Cliff's story is about growing (or not growing!) as a person, all the while enjoying his eccentricities.
Criticism is always welcome. But it needs to come from places based on the truth. There is a lot of me in the characters in this story- but that's kind of the point of being an author.
You don't have to listen to my criticism specifically but the way I've seen you snap at others with much gentler criticisms than mine really put me off man :/ You've shown an intense, specific resistance to ANY negative feedback regardless of intent, and THAT'S what I'm referring to.
You don't need to reply to every comment you get. You don't need to justify every decision you make. I even said that on a good day I love like, half of your game. William and Nik aren't for me, so I didn't comment on them in any depth.
The amount of work you put into the project isn't the point because I can clearly see where creative visions are clashing. Which in some ways is fine, and others really isn't. I'm not going to get into the minutia of it because nothing I can say will ever convince you or anyone else that your writing is flawed in any appreciable way. It makes me less willing to accept what flaws DO exist because I'll know they'll just be repeated 🙃 it happened with Howly and Arches, and McSkinny with A Role To Play.
For the record I don't hate you as a person. I don't think you're a pedophile, I don't think you're evil, or even necessarily are still the creep you (allegedly) were years ago. I'm willing to engage with you and your fiction with grace and the benefit of the doubt, since it provides very rare representation (at least outside of FVNs.) But like my guy, obsessively replying to any negative feedback with "you're wrong, actually" is unprofessional and makes me less able to feel positively towards the work.
I would love to be as obsessed with TSR as other people seem to be (especially since it's goddamn inescapable and nobody who plays FVNs looks outside of the Echo Project bubble very often.) I really wanna like this game, I really do. Literally all I want is to see more open dialogue
I literally said I don't think that George is a pedophile or even necessarily a bad person in my reply. I'm not accusing him of anything besides not being a particularly good writer.
Not saying you are. The others are (and they're cub writers themselves).
You do seem to be very much the "I don't like it and I criticize it, the writer should acknowledge my opinion and change for me specifically" type though. So, yeah. Don't like, leave your criticism, move on.
Like I said I don't really care whether or not my personal feelings are reflected in TSR. The dickriding (especially from you specifically) is just obnoxious.
"Dickriding" or not, the things and points that have been said to you (respectfully) still apply regardless. Good thing you don't care and don't take personal feelings reflected in the VN to heart. It would be pretty mature to just move on.
"dickriding" aka "HOW DARE YOU DEFEND A THING YOU LIKE SUBMIT TO MY BADMOUTHING"
Sure thing bucko. Besides, you wanna talk off putting? Go play Echo. There are FAR worse and more messed up things there than THAT scene from a recent update (which isn't even bad, you just don't get it).
You don't care, sure, but you care enough to say what you said, so you DO in fact care.
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Buenos días, alguien sabe si el juego está en español? Plis deseo saber porfavor
I went Cliff > Nik > Sam > Nik > Cliff > Murdoch > Cliff > Will > And I think Nik will have to be my number 1 because I'm too much like Cliff and need a big hard working badger in my life to belly flop on top of me as I fall asleep. Yeah I think that's going to be it. That will be my decision. I like it.
same lmao
hey, so we are having this argument in the Echo Project Wiki over William's sexuality, about whether he is homosexual or bisexual, if is not a bother, would you mind settling the matter?
William is homosexual. Many gay people in the US were coerced into marriage for colonialist purposes, and that's a major component of William's story. There are several major bi characters though, like Cliff, Todd, James and his wife, Dora and Jim. The majority of a sexually segregated workforce in Echo at this time period would express bisexuality and m/m relationships in some fashion based on historical trends and evidence. Homophobic attitudes would still coexist in some capacity with this realty as well.
-George
ok, i've played through most routes (except cliff's, halfway through it) and i want to review this vn. i've seen the drama on twitter over it, and i agree partly with some of the criticism, though i don't agree how some people go about criticizing the game. when i mean criticism, i mean people talking about the narrative's inconsistencies.
spoilers ahead btw. also everything i write below is subject to change, since the vn is not complete yet and i myself change my opinions on things from time to time. who knows, maybe when the game launches i'll write another one.
**************************************************
the thing i saw most on twitter when people were criticizing the game was how many NSFW scenes there were. people said it was too much and yadda yadda, and i half agree with it and half disagree. the protag is a literal whore. it's kinda expexted for there to be a lot of sugestive scenes ain't it? and second, you can have a good history VN with a lot of sugestive stuff in it (burrows for example). though i do think some of them feel out of left field, like the one with hendricks on cliffs route, the one with todd on the shed and kane's. and i have something to say about kane's specifically.
the other thing people said about the game was the non-consentual act on kane's scene. that's undeniable, it's implied (at least how i see it) that william passed out in the middle of it. even before he passed out, he didn't really consent to do half the things kane told him to do. i feel this can't just be ignored on the upcoming william update. william's route has to do something further and not just go "well that just happened ig" and just keep moving. i feel this has to be addresed in some way with the seriousness the topic of r4pe and SA deserves next william update, or further up.
aside from this, i like where the history is going on the routes. i like how diferent they all are to each other and my favorite would probavly be between william and nik's. i hope we see more of how this game ties in with echo in the next update. since echo had 63 updates, and tsr is on the 33rd, i'm guessing we're close to seeing the ending of the histories.
I want to point out a few disagreements and inconsistencies on your post.
Also Spoilers
*******************************************
When you talk about Kane's scene. First you say its "undeniable" that this was non-consensual and immediately follow by saying "It was implied that he passed out in the middle of the scene". That absolutely didn't happened AT ALL and I don't know what do you read to make you think that was remotely implied. At least you acknowledge when you wrote in parenthesis "(at least how i see it)" that your view is subjective, because even if you saw it like that, that's not what happened in the slightest.
You also said "he didn't really consent to do half the things Kane told him to do". I don't understand. Half of what things?
Kane kisses Will----Will responds with "He is damn good". Will likes that
Kane makes Will kneel---- Will responds with "What the hell am I doing down here if not to do exactly what he's expecting". He is willing to try a thing that was repressed because of his father, if he didn't want that , he could easily just stand up and go. Which ties to the next part.
Will remembers the time when he was doing THIS EXACT SAME THING with someone HE LIKED but he was denied by his homophobic father. However Will says "I know this time isn't going to be like the last time SAM IS HERE WITH ME" Because in order to arrive at this point of the story and this scene, one of the choices was
"If you can allow for things to go where they need to, then so can I."
Kane says "Lick balls to base"---Will says "So I give him what WE BOTH want"
Kane makes Will go deeper and says to Sam "Even I wouldn't have FOLLOWED those orders WITHOUT a little RESISTANCE"----- Will says after "I am good at following orders, right? Even when they TASTE BAD. But I can't pretend ANY OF THIS TASTE BAD"
"I NEEED THIS"
The only thing that Will "didn't consent" was him finishing in his face instead of his mouth. And some folks make it sound that William was being waterboarded with cum in some sort of torture device. All the while the whole scene reads that Will is pretty much into it and we were given a lot of context in past updates about Will's psyche. Some of this r4pe and SA takes I have heard are from people that either:
1 Forgot some of the context of past updates,
2 Gloss over the context that the current William update prior to the Kane scene or
3 Are folks from a certain age that shouldn't be reading this VN because by nature they lack the understanding and maturity to read into these scenes due to their young age.
There is also a fourth point. People not liking when a character doesn't feet their preconceived notions but to each their own.
I do agree with you that I also hope the route just doesn't keep moving and go "Well that just happened". I would love to hear what Will feels after overcoming a very deep seeded barrier put out by an homophobic father and able to overcome that thanks to SAM with Kane (Someone he likes), even when he was hesitant at the beginning.
William consenting verbally and nonverbally makes this a consensual scene.
William has degrees of sexual neurosis that he wants to get over through self-struggle, which is why bondage is helpful to him.
-George
spoiler
*****************************************
i was writing a reply but the power went out. it was a shame cause i wrote a lot. i'll just boil down what i was gonna say and some more.
i went and replayed his route (granted, i skipped scenes that didn't involve william poking his brain) and i agree with you that most people on twitter forgot some of the context prior the stag part and sk did i. william did agree verbally/non verbally but what led me to have those opinions was this line"i mean to stand ground, but i'm dizzy" after kane put him os his knees and sam a bit later "be patient with him, he's had more than a shot". completely forgot that liquid courage is def something. i said i agree with some thing they said, i still do but nah, they tripping on this scene. i gotta say tho: william won't magically just overcome his conflicts and internalized homophobia with this scene alone (this month i think we'll have the next update, we'll see how it will play out)
also replaying his route, i can't say exactly why but i feel murdoch and william are two sides of the same coin. i already noticed playing murd's route and i thought it again replaying will's. probably because they're both conflicted but i won't elaborate and just let this marinate. maybe when both their routes end.
also the pass out thing: i said it was in the middle of the scene, i meant the end before the "to be continued", that was miscommunication on my part ("i remember just one thing before darkness overtakes me: sam wiping the filth out of me"). but re-reading it, yeah reached back there, not even gonna lie. it's open ended, so again, only next update we'll know how it turned out.
side thing: i remembered i had made a post here on itch months ago on how sudden the stag scene felt, and even on this thread original post. it flew over my head when i posted it, but it's good to know there will be changes in the future
(Definitely check out the patreon build that just came out if you are willing to support us. There have been major edits for pacing around the stag scene.)
oh shit, it came out? gonna check out once i got more time on me then
----------------------Spoiler warning + question-------------------------
||Can you save Will in Nik's route?||
Also can you hide text somehow like you can do in discord for spoilers?
We don't know for certain if he died. He might just be badly wounded. We won't know till next update, I'm gonna be pissed if they killed.
Yeah, I hope he'll be fine.
So far, it seems like who gets hurt depends on who you choose to sell out. I experimented and got a few different people at the end there
I see, thanks for the information. ^_^
When I want to play the game the TSR-32 file cannot be opened, in build 31 it could be opened normally and translated, now that I download build 33 I cannot open it either, there is another file with the name TSR I can open it but I cannot translate it As in build 31, is there an error in the TSR-33 file?
Yo does anyone know if there is a soundtrack for this game somewhere
Is there any way to skip the story? I mean.. i cant read it all from the beginning again .. can i just continue the build 33? Im at 31
Yeah there is I believe. If you click the extra button which on the main menu its shows you all the chapters out for each character. Which you can then click what chapter you would like to be at for said character. I do hope this was helpful in someway.
;(
ughhhhh i want more cliff content!!! but ive recently started with the murdoch playthrough, and jeeeeez you guys never cease to fail!!! i cant wait to play through the other builds of this game!!! :3 i imagine they are all so amazing!!
I can only boot up build 27 but idk why?
I cant boot build 33. Am I the only one?
this novel left a scar on me and its deep
HOW COULD THEY DO THAT, HE DIDNT DO NOTHING WRONG??? This update has left me in tears to say the least... I really am dreading what the next update for niks route is going to be, i pray it goes well. I pray 🙏
I pray for it too 😔🙏
This build has successfully managed to make me cry! :)
So.. how far off till Nik's Route Ending?
I can't say for sure, but I would gauge around, like, 70-75% completion?
I can't really update it... It says "App can't be updated because it conflicts with an existing package" I'm on android btw.
Uninstall the current build, then try again
does anyone knows if there is some kind of summary of what happens in the routes and the stuff that happens in every desition? im slow and my english reading compression is really bad as english is not my first lenguage 😔
I estimate that TSR is between 63-67% completed
I like Todd and Yao, they both are so silly, the side characters have nice interactions :3
just a silly random question. spoiler alert!
we know that sam is followed by a creature/ghost? in william's route, there's also a skeleton like creature in the mirror and ceiling. are both these creatures/ghost actually the same being or are they different?
sorry for my randomness.
Those are different.
Thats one theory it could just as easily be a demon.
uuuh I don't know what's this drama all about (and I don't wanna know, thanks) but anyway Nik is such a pookie 😭❤️❤️
There's no drama. It's just literal 16 year olds interacting with NSFW content publicly, not liking it, and making stuff up because they don't like it. Ignore it and enjoy the VN lol
Hello, after playing your novel I was inspired and would like to create a fan novel based on your universe.
Would you be against such creativity with preservation all copyrights.
Thank you very much in advance for your answer.
The policy the project has always taken is that non-profit fan projects are allowed.
-George S.
Yeah this game's content goes beyond "it's just not for me" territory with meta knowledge of George as a person. No, I don't necessarily think George is a pedophile, but the content of the game may or may not reflect some of his... personal proclivities and that makes some of the racier content harder to tolerate.
More importantly, I think the game started heading into a poor direction once Howly left the project. It's clear that George crushes up against that original vision and it makes for a jarring and inconsistent read. I think Cliff and Murdoch's routes are solid-to-fantastic on a good day, and utterly abysmal on a bad one. Nik is pretty bland and the less said about William Update 30 the better.
I think we'd all do better as a community and as people in general if we were more open to criticism. I think the content in this game being so dark and heavy is fine, but I don't think it's done well in a lot of cases. Both George and the Echo Project community seem extremely resistant to criticism no matter how well -intentioned it is, and that lack of willingness to learn and grow from past mistakes is evident in the final product being produced. This game (and especially Arches) are only better than Echo, insofar as being less buggy and having less typos.
Since George hates Cliff apparently and with that route's writer being gone, I don't think I'll be continuing to read TSR in the future :/ Maybe I wouldn't be so sour on this game if you could express any genuine criticism of it without an ocean of sycophants with a parasocial relationship to George whining about it, but that isn't the world we live in.
I hope George has grown past the nasty things accused of him and is a better person, I really do. Maybe I'll give this game another shot once/if a new Cliff update releases.
Hello. Since the crux of this argument is about honest criticism, we need to address true things.
1. I have written more than ninety-five percent of this project. The content of this project that howly wrote was:
-half of the introduction before the route split, until nik is first introduced.
-The very beginning of the nik route until before yao is first introduced.
Howly had some very loose ideas about Nik and Will. He wanted will to be married and have some homophobic elements to his character perspectives. He wanted Nik to be a heart-felt love story. I have done my best to uphold these original ideas while letting a good portion of myself enter the story, such as exploring labor History in Nik route, and Mystery elements and themes of homosexual shame and self-loathing in Will route.
I'm sorry you are not interested in the labor politics of nik route or Will's self-exploration of himself, but, these are coming from places of genuine humanity.
2. I do not consider an overwhelming amount of this game dark. A lot of it is a celebration of the progressive movement in America before things go bad. I try to do a mix of good and bad things to tell a story of the town in this era. A lot of it does veer dark due to the nature of the horror genre.
3. I do not hate Cliff. I have cowritten him since the beginning with Redd, and have written a heavy amount of the portion of his story. I like weasels, and even used to have a weasel fursona a long time ago! I just never wanted to portray Cliff as a suave cool guy, because a lot of his story is so heavily tied to themes of the nastier side of anthropology and colonization that America did in this time era, and to some extent still does today.
If Cliff had not been an anthropologist, we probably could have gone in a drastically different direction with him. But I think the role of the Meseta needed more presence and we used Cliff's story to explore that more.
Cliff's story is about growing (or not growing!) as a person, all the while enjoying his eccentricities.
Criticism is always welcome. But it needs to come from places based on the truth. There is a lot of me in the characters in this story- but that's kind of the point of being an author.
-George S.
You don't have to listen to my criticism specifically but the way I've seen you snap at others with much gentler criticisms than mine really put me off man :/ You've shown an intense, specific resistance to ANY negative feedback regardless of intent, and THAT'S what I'm referring to.
You don't need to reply to every comment you get. You don't need to justify every decision you make. I even said that on a good day I love like, half of your game. William and Nik aren't for me, so I didn't comment on them in any depth.
The amount of work you put into the project isn't the point because I can clearly see where creative visions are clashing. Which in some ways is fine, and others really isn't. I'm not going to get into the minutia of it because nothing I can say will ever convince you or anyone else that your writing is flawed in any appreciable way. It makes me less willing to accept what flaws DO exist because I'll know they'll just be repeated 🙃 it happened with Howly and Arches, and McSkinny with A Role To Play.
For the record I don't hate you as a person. I don't think you're a pedophile, I don't think you're evil, or even necessarily are still the creep you (allegedly) were years ago. I'm willing to engage with you and your fiction with grace and the benefit of the doubt, since it provides very rare representation (at least outside of FVNs.) But like my guy, obsessively replying to any negative feedback with "you're wrong, actually" is unprofessional and makes me less able to feel positively towards the work.
I would love to be as obsessed with TSR as other people seem to be (especially since it's goddamn inescapable and nobody who plays FVNs looks outside of the Echo Project bubble very often.) I really wanna like this game, I really do. Literally all I want is to see more open dialogue
Nasty things accused are mostly just lies based on things taken out of context and leaking private DMs out of context because of a hate boner. lol
I literally said I don't think that George is a pedophile or even necessarily a bad person in my reply. I'm not accusing him of anything besides not being a particularly good writer.
Not saying you are. The others are (and they're cub writers themselves).
You do seem to be very much the "I don't like it and I criticize it, the writer should acknowledge my opinion and change for me specifically" type though. So, yeah. Don't like, leave your criticism, move on.
Like I said I don't really care whether or not my personal feelings are reflected in TSR. The dickriding (especially from you specifically) is just obnoxious.
"Dickriding" or not, the things and points that have been said to you (respectfully) still apply regardless. Good thing you don't care and don't take personal feelings reflected in the VN to heart. It would be pretty mature to just move on.
"dickriding" aka "HOW DARE YOU DEFEND A THING YOU LIKE SUBMIT TO MY BADMOUTHING"
Sure thing bucko. Besides, you wanna talk off putting? Go play Echo. There are FAR worse and more messed up things there than THAT scene from a recent update (which isn't even bad, you just don't get it).
You don't care, sure, but you care enough to say what you said, so you DO in fact care.
Just here to say Murdoch's route hits home and makes me cry a lot.