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itch.io Community » itch.io » Ideas & Feedback

There must be something that can be done about horror games

A topic by Wolfe created 68 days ago Views: 399 Replies: 23

Viewing posts 1 to 7

Wolfe68 days ago (7 edits) (+4)

I tried searching for an active thread about this ages-old topic and found it locked. I am grateful for the service Itch.io provides to developers, but the game results algorithm's monotonous promotion of horror games, even for otherwise-unrelated tags (like "simulation"), is really bad.

I just want to browse a variety of games without needing to exclude anything. Why must a default page be a wall of horror games? Why can't you get away from them without excluding them? Why can't horror fans search for games with a tag, instead? Then everyone would win; it's less work for them than for the rest of us. You have the tech to hide NSFW games; why not hide horror games unless a user wants them? Horror games are not all-ages- or all-audiences-appropriate either. Then, users who are looking for something non-specific besides a NSFW game, horror game, or visual novel could simply exclude VNs.

Obviously, I'm hardly alone in being frustrated with this poor outcome of Itch.io's algorithm and relationship with other social media. The saturation is truly extraordinary. Is there really no interest in doing anything about it? So many tiles of wacky/creepy faces in the results pages are like turbocharged YouTube thumbnails. Horror games are an irritant; I don't think there would be quite the same complaints if Itch.io's results were dominated by regular 2D pixel art platformers, instead.

The subgenre of "horror game pretending to be something innocent" makes the game results that much worse.

(NOTE: Please keep it civil so that this dialogue can remain open.)

sicave68 days ago(+2)

While I do agree that Itch overpromotes horror, there's no real good way of dealing with it.
Steam and gamejolt also have this problem, simply because they're E-stores in the E-net that function by E-trends and E-rules; the consistent sellers are mostly horror.

Itch does have this issue a little bit more, but it's sort of unfixable without some sort of unfair rigging system that manually pushes down horror games, which will always be offset and over or under-compensating for bias.
And sure, horror isn't "for all ages", but it's a different type of "not for all ages" than NSFW, it can generally be stomached by the userbase.

This issue is pretty much stuck as it is, either the platform goes extreme and bumps down horror games or makes it extremely annoying to access horror games.
It's not exactly an Itch issue as much the whole internet issue bleeding into Itch's freedom and accessibility.

The most practical way is to indeed include tag exclusion, which is possible only through editing URLs rather than through the actual website.

Eldwood68 days ago

I don't think horror is inherently less objectionable than porn. Pictures of people having sex isn't going to traumatize any mentally healthy child, but graphic horror might. In extreme causes, I'd say that if you can stomach certain graphic horror, that's a sign that you aren't mentally healthy!

That said, there are obviously different types of horror (and different types of porn for that matter), including child-appropriate horror, so it depends very much on the specifics of the work in question.

sicave67 days ago

Sorry, it's generally inappropriate to scare children.
Didn't say it's 'objectionable'.

Eldwood65 days ago

Penis in vagina = porn.

Penis in meat grinder = NSWF horror.

Finger in eye = horror, but arguably SFW.

If you had to expose a child to one of them, which one would it be?

The infine one58 days ago(+1)

What Is Wrong With You Bud

Wolfe67 days ago

I've suggested an actionable solution that doesn't really inconvenience anyone, unless you think a profile setting is a huge barrier to anyone seeking content, and the NSFW profile setting is unfair to NSFW devs...? People have been begging for solutions to this horror game problem for years.

All the horror is objectionable. Not because the mere sight of it frightens, but because the tiles are ugly. It's not much different than not wanting to scroll over NSFW games. It's hardly unfair, considering it won't slow any fans down. NSFW games do fine.

I've never had such a problem with horror games on Steam, no matter how or where I browse it.

sicave67 days ago(+2)

Horror games are incomparable to NSFW games in anything that's not age rating, so NSFW games getting hidden is a convenience (and also a legal requirement).
I was treating this option as on by default, I think you can achieve the exact same thing while also making a QOL feature with Tag exclusion.
And Steam is different because it has actual QA, and horror is one of the easiest genres to make, perfect maelstrom for a bunch of horror garbage.
Maybe getting QA would help as well but what do I know? I only review and see the newest games everyday.

redonihunter66 days ago(+1)

And Steam is different because it has actual QA

This.

Also their "browse" section works completely different and they have like 80k indie games there, and default "indie" on Steam means not a huge studio/publisher, but still professional small studio usually, while the usual on Itch is amateur single developer with no publisher.

redonihunter66 days ago (1 edit)

I believe the root of the problem is how you browse for games on each platform. Steam does more promotion of games. Or do people really go to Search games and leave all the parameters empty? Because that is "popular" section on Steam and there you can see the current most popular titles of their ~ 160k games. I did not even know that section existed for years! Let alone that there is a not very visible button to minus tags, instead of checking them to filter with.

The browse section on itch is much more volatile and fickle. Smallest trends among youtubers will be visible there. And there is a certain promotion of new games in the ranking. Both those factors increase the visibilty of "horror" titles.

Whereas on Steam you have a huge landing page and see promotion and tailored selections to your previous tastes. There is a recommended section on itch and in theory the landing page. But after making an account I basically never visited the landing page on itch. Like, never.

Regarding horror specifically, Steam implemented 3 or 4 matury settings and those settings are curated. You should be able to block them based on maturity. If you did not do so and still do not see horror on Steam, that is because it is not promoted to you.

In other words, are you flooded by ugly horror titles in your recommended section on Itch?

Wolfe65 days ago (11 edits)

In other words, are you flooded by ugly horror titles in your recommended section on Itch?

...what even is that? I'm looking at the whole itch.io/games page and I see nothing that says "recommendations". *

I don't even have much of a download history on Itch.io per se, because it's so hard to find anything of interest; and I'm not young anymore, so I don't need to browse for free games amidst such an overwhelming pile of horror. I end up looking for games on Steam, although I have no particular affinity for Valve or the platform. (I like Itch better, except for the platter of games served.)

Except it would be nice to be able to find more nice free games that aren't just YouTuber bait.

* - I don't want a hyper-aggressive algorithm trying to feed me anyway. I want open-ended exploration, without just one thing filling every page. Algorithms are way too target-fixated.

There are only so many times I can scroll past that damned ultra-wide-eyed baby or some pale-faced grimace before deciding it's not worth the repeated mild aggravations to browse anymore. I am neurodivergent, so I know it's a drag for some other users out there.

redonihunter65 days ago(+2)

what even is that?

Thank you. That is the best evidence that the recommendation section is well hidden and people do not even know it.

Click your user name. Between My Library and Game Jams.

Or click your Library. Below My Purchases and above Things on sale.

Also the itch.io landing page is forgotton after creating an account. Happened to me. Go to itch.io directly. Not to the browse section. If you go to the browse section you already are in the part of itch that is not customized to you. On itch.io if logged in, if you scroll down a bit, there is a tiny recommended section.

I want open-ended exploration

You can't use standard browse section for that. The landing and most other sections on that are ranked by popularity. And the recent is dangerous (malware) and lots of half developed games.

A few suggestions.

Go to global feed. https://itch.io/feed

Scroll the itch.io landing all the way down. There is the https://itch.io/randomizer

And of course the landing itself, there are featured games - not tailored to you by an algorithm. Those are hand picked.

Use the browse section with tags to your liking. After you selected a few non-horror tags, it should thin out. You can select any tag you like by writing it in the little tag box. The search box only searches titles, not tags (and it only suggests tags that are in the suggested tag list). If you can think of it as a tag, chances are, someone has tagged it.

There is also the devlogs https://itch.io/devlogs

Wolfe65 days ago

Thank you. That is the best evidence that the recommendation section is well hidden and people do not even know it.

You're welcome that I figured as much. 😁

If itch.io/games is no better than a blank logged-out homepage for YouTube.com 🤮, I will certainly take your suggestions to heart. Thank you

Wolfe65 days ago (1 edit) (+1)

...Suffice to say, one way or another, Itch.io has serious service problems for its non-horror-game-fan users, and it's an open secret.

I pray it hasn't tainted Itch's image forever, because I really like the platform and wish it gave Steam more of a run for its money.

redonihunter65 days ago

After thinking about the topic again, I believe a major issue is, how hidden and unpromoted the itch.io landing page is. The naked itch.io.

It is the itch icon in the top row. It is always there and does not even look like a link, as it is an image and all the other things are text.

Or is this just me? I just never needed to visit that page and as I said, it is hidden in plain sight. My bookmark points to my library.

Wolfe65 days ago (3 edits) (+1)

I'm trying to make games, so my bookmark ended up being my own page. From there, I can click on "Dashboard" (so long as my login is valid), and from there, "Browse" appears. Which takes me to the /games URL.

I tried to avoid what was most-promoted by avoiding what would be "featured" on the naked page. Not to sound like a hipster. Algorithms tend to feed me the opposite of what I want, because reasons.

redonihunter68 days ago

I agree that "horror" in general is not something that should be considered kid friendly, while also not being strictly adults only. Maybe a third category, not intended for kids would do good. But all this is self information from amateur publishers and thus unreliable. Also standards what is not suitable for a 16yo differ greatly worldwide.

Personally I am not bothered much by horror games, for three reasons. I do not regularly browse popular on itch. I know how to filter them, if I wanted to. And if I can scroll past advertisements, I can scroll past creepy stuff. The cookie warnings in the net bother me more than advertisments.

It is a bit like the chicken and the egg question. Does itch promote horror? Or is horror popular and thus featured on itch. I would go with, it is the type of game that does not get featured much elsewhere, but is still popular enough that it will appear immensly popular where it can be easily published. Devs do not have to go through whatever process games go through on Steam to go from wishlisting to published.

Could also be a side effect of "horror" being popular on youtube. Or popular enough to skew apparant popularity on itch.

The most practical way is to indeed include tag exclusion, which is possible only through editing URLs rather than through the actual website.

While this works regardless of any maturity settings made by the developer and for tags that are not even covered by any maturity considerations, it is unwieldy to use. I even made a little tool to help with that, but that does not work for everyone and in the end it still depends on accurate tagging by the devs.

So even if you exclude horror, you will still get psychological horror, creepy, survival horror, zombies and so on - if horror was not also tagged. And of course, you will also not see the games that you would not consider horror but are still tagged this way.

Well, to me, horror is a genre anyways, and because of that I do not agree with most horror game tags. A jump scare might be unnerving, but horror it ain't.

Maybe the situation would be better, if the recommendation page would be better, so people would browse there more often, instead of browsing popular section.

Hodslate65 days ago

Best way to find what you want is to follow developers and go from there. Takes a bit but can find some really cool stuff. Also try users collections based around a certain theme. Helps a lot!

Magicsofa64 days ago

Requests for filtering options are certainly valid, but I would not want to see a specific genre targeted without very good reason (and there are regulations here, such as "live action" graphic images are not allowed).

As far as I know this is a developer site first, and a storefront second. There is a strong emphasis on artistic freedom here, which I personally value even though I don't play horror games. As a player coming to the site, it should be understood that creators here have a lot of independence and that you have to exercise your own judgement when browsing. And I think the importance of being able to just click on "browse" and have your preferences catered to is overblown. It isn't that hard to click on "Top Rated" and suddenly not see many horror games...

redonihunter64 days ago

The reason "horror" is "targeted" by so many threads is this: the first page in browse will show 36 items on load. There are days when over 30 of those items have the tag horror. And those days are many. As of this writing it is 32.

Now is the horror well liked? If you go to the top rated section in browse, only 10 games are tagged horror.

I dare say there is a certain imbalance and the apparant popularity of horror might be slightly skewed, maybe due to clickbait like youtube videos. Well. If it brings new players to the platform, all the better. Came for the horror, stayed for the indie games. Or similar.

But once you are on the platform, you might want to see a more diverse selection of games. There is, but you have to look for it and the "browse" button is too prominent compared to the other options.

o13964 days ago(+1)

i dont see this issue for example i use tag fps there are only 1 or 2 horror games on first page

PurplePanties63 days ago (1 edit)

So what defines a 'popular' game?

The default display seems to be latest game sorted by 'Popular' - which appears to be stuffed with horror games. both the 'New and Popular' and 'Most Recent' categories seem to have a better balance of games. So have the folks posting the horror games found a way to game the system and artificially inflate the popularity of their games? Or are people really coming here to download/play numerous horror games?

On the rating site, many horror movies are classified as Mature or Adult due to various themes such as horror, gore, and supernatural themes. Should games containing such matters also be pulled under the Adult category? (Or is adult just restricted for Sexual games?)

redonihunter63 days ago

Or is adult just restricted for Sexual games?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_content_rating_system

The rating system on itch is not a rating system. But basically it is AO plus the M that might be considered "NSFW", and even T, if there are any that could have T, while also being considred "NSFW".

So, no, it is not restricted to sexual games, but because of the nsfw aspect, it appears so at first glance, as that one starts as low as some nude pixels. Also, there is the meaning in context of tagging and the tag "adult" is used as in the term "adult toy store".

So what defines a 'popular' game?

Clicks. The algortihm on itch adds some magic to it, that they keep secret. But it also involves a boost for new games and very likely mechanisms to not count artificial clicks.

I blame the youtubers. They make playthroughs of horror games and send their viewers here. I do not say this is a bad thing, but it surely boosts popularity of the genre.

Magicsofa62 days ago(+1)

To me it looks like the default "Popular" view shows games that have the most activity.

"New and Popular" shows recent games with activity.

"Most Recent" shows recent games regardless of activity.

"Highest Rated" shows games with the highest star-ratings.

So, based on that it seems obvious why a certain type of horror game dominates the first category:

They are short enough that youtubers can play the entire game in one video.
They are sensational, but still allowed on youtube
People tend to just play them once and then move on, which is why they don't have as big of a showing in the Highest Rated pages.
In contrast to the above point, people do end up forming a "trend train" where multiple youtubers line up to cover the same game, and their fans in turn go play that game. This gives the games a little more staying power in "Popular" than they have in "New and Popular"

To be fair, you can find plenty of horror games in all of the categories. I just think that the youtuber cycle is hitting just right for the titles they cover to be floating in Popular for a good amount of time (but, the titles don't usually have enough staying power to end up as Highest Rated)

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