Deleted 4 years ago
Quite honestly, I can not see how anybody would be able to mistake this game for a "sweet, fluffy otome", not to mention "a lot of people". I certainly didn't, because it was obvious that the creators took inspiration from the Old World of Darkness, and there is a reason why it's called that and not World of Sunshine and Rainbows. I still didn't appreciate being stubbornly railroaded into disaster, especially considering that the game offers fifteen different endings.
Clearly, we have different opinions here, and that's just fine. But assuming that the discontent stems mostly from the crushed hopes of people who for some unfathomable reason excepted some saccharine dating sim completely misses the point.
I also think you haven't really read what the thread is about... SPOILERS AHEAD SO BE CAUTIOUS.
no, nobody was waiting for a twilight-esque otome full of fluff, sweet, romance sunshine and rainbows, but rather, as the warnings said, some kind of twisted romance. The point being, this doesn't feel like romance at all. I'm not the best person to convey this thread into words that sounds coherent and makes sense, because my english is very basic tbh, but i will try....
What people is more upset about i could put it out as being that, for paying almost $20 usd for a game that obviously is very dark, we got a rollercoaster that feels like some kind of mess, and not really a good one, i mean, i don't mind playing almost 5 or 6 bad endings for each character if only i got some reward for it, i dont want a fluffy romance ending when suddenly everything gets solved out of nowhere and everyone is happy and sound, becouse this is not THAT kind of game, but i was expecting some kind of a better reaction to our character being our character and staying there at all, maybe an ending when whe can choose to run away with our LI and send the war *** and simply dont care at all. Also, maybe some bittersweet ending when it's kind of not solved, but rather paused, some mayor character deads but still some kind of reward out of it, something remotely happy amid all that chaos. But we get none.
Not only does the game feel like everything you do is pointless, because it basicaly goes down to ways: If our character didn't exist, the war would go on, we don't know how whould it develop but i am certain things wolud go ape*** and have mayor deaths, maybe set the whole hollywood on fire eventually, but with our character there, things go south rather fast, and for a game with a premise that OUR CHOICES matter, and that we hold the key to maybe solve everything, or set everything into chaos, it feels like no matter what, everything goes CHAOTIC anyways, like yup, we try to make it better, but oh noes, that isn't going to happen. We can't really be anything, and, as for being a vampire, mc feel rather usseless thought the story, being a relatively new vampire at all.
And don't even talk about the sex choices, that's some guild trip right there, it feels so wrong, and is not exactly the kind of "weird, toxic-romance" i was expecting, some of it yeah, but for it to remain that way i can't really call that a romance, it feels like there is not consent, nothing rather romantic at all, randal is the lest ankward one i think, and yeah even if vampires are dark, murderous suicidal beings -in this game context- They were also once human, i would have liked the devs to maybe explore that part and combine it better with this twisted world they created.
this game offers nothing more that a captivating storyline -wich ultimately feels bland after everything is said and done-, beautyfull characters who happend to be very haunted, and no matter what you do, you can't make it better, not only that, but if you try to make it better it will only get worse, a rollercoaster of guilt, blankness, suffering and so so many bad endings with nothing more to it, the game is so far only what seems like bad endings, and for a visual novel, that kinds of falls plain.
You can have and be anything at hollywood- because you are already death, yet, none of it really happens because the ilusion of choices fails to deliver, except for some turns here and there, someone saving your ass depending of your reputation and evading ultimate death, your characters apport to storyline is rather bland, interaction with other characters...bland. Some jokes here and there that might make you laught, but this game can be everything--- but at the end of the day, you sat in front of your pc, staring at the credits screen after 50+ hours of gamplay, to be rewarded with....nothing, just bitternest, some really bad memories, amazing storyline for the supporting characters with major and minor roles and feeling like you did nothing at all, except self-insert yourself in a rollercoaster of despair, maddness, with little to no romance at all, hell, even if you DO avoind romance, even as friends, the feelings are all the same, so the question that always lingers in the end is "What does it matter? nothing really does" Your character matters nothing at all, i get what the devs where going with this game, but it had so much potential to be something more ya'know? The twisted-romance premise could've been aproached so much better, instead is just bland, aknward and kind of put it there? It doesn't matter in the storyline at all- And as such, it doesn't really matter to the characters LI at all, for example markus, something that striked me in his story was that at the beggining when you choose him as a tutor of sorts, he asks you "What are your fears" i choose "Being lonely- because of being a vampire" that's how i would answer in real life, and he responded in the context of "I see, but we're all afraid of it, with different name and circumstances, yet all united with the same string, and do tell, what whould you seek to scape it, what do you expect to not feel it?" -not his exact words but yeah- And i answered "love- i hope to find it" and then this moment got caught in my head because he got serious all of a sudden and said "This is the right time, isn't it? all this time...for this moment" and i was like welp yeah, golgotha can se s*** and stuff, would have been so amazing to explore the way that maybe markus knew you where coming into his life all along- he just didn't know wich role you whould play into his inmortal life until he expended a bit of time with your character? and so, if you chose to romance him, this would've been soo much deep...
That is the kind of potential this game had, but fail to deliver.
Not that i was expecting anything tbh.
i expected more for the storyline choices and endings with influences, but the only one so far who had me almost satisfied was when i started a rebellion of my own -See? i pulled sneaky on you, saorise lol- and got to be the new vamp leader, aside from that, every ending just left me with this bitter taste and i just was sitting there thinking -Wow, so much for choises matter- because in the end, no matter what you choose, the outcome is always bad in some kind of way, and not bad as in - bad game, bad ending kind of- but bad in the way of that it's always a dissasters, and that in the end of the day, you can't even protect the people you come to care for in this new, dark twisted world.
Heck, i would have been so much pleased with an option to suicide myself after all those bad endings, maybe then, i could say, yeah, this is that kind of game, but welp, i guess even my character doesn't care about anything at all- just how this game feels.
May not be accurrated because a rambled a lot but yeah, there you have it, some pinpoints into what other people where saying and how i feel about it all.
Sorry for bad english,
Spoilers not game breaking- i think- unless you get turned down for a game who doesnt have real romance lol.
What a long but passionate answer! And I have to agree with all your points because that's just how I felt after I spend 20+ hours on the game, trying to find a good solution.
I'm the usual Otome player but I didn't expect this game to be typical sweet and soft, I prepared myself for a hell ride and twisted romance, I read the warnings and everything. I simply liked the concept and the promised content, intrigued by the demo and updates but never did I expect a gut punch like this. Playing through all routes and endings only to be told that nothing mattered and enduring so much emotional pain without any relief. I had one guilt trip after another and even felt so bad romancing the dudes that I just became friends with them only to realize that the ending is technically the same. Players felt bad playing the game. Players felt like they played the game wrong. Players had a therapy trauma session on the freaking game server.
Even a kickstarter sponsor and beta tester regretted their choice to support this project. On Steam the game already has a rating of 6/10, many raising the same concern and bitterness about the endings and the outcomes. Some theorized it's for shock value and to pull a sneaky on the players instead, well, congratualtions, you got your reactions devs, but I will be honest - you shot yourselves in the legs. Many potential customers and fans now turning away or regretting their purchase, even swearing to never buy a game from you again. And the people of tomorrow will read the reviews and comments, immediately turning away and thus losing all the money invested into it. How did this even turn out like this? The prequel is even happier and that is BL only, how did this following one turn out so frustrating? Many expectations crushed, not only from Otome players buy also those who enjoy psychological horror - where is the dark comedy in this? It ends up in a tragedy anyway, labeling it as Drama isn't the same thing. Optional romance - It says that but really, you will feel uncomfortable and awkward, not in the funny way.
So many bad endings, making you responsible for deaths and destruction, suicide and homicide and then you only get a lazy mindf*ck of an ending. A new experience and not for anyone, I get it, but what kind of niche masochists are you looking for? In the end even the masochists want a satisfying, even if not good, end. Sometimes being experimental is not always good, especially because how the game was marketed. As if lead astray after waiting so long for it, not for the romance only but the influence you were promised to have in it. This is basically a linear VN where only the last choices really matter, a story you could have told in a Kinetic VN with a set MC. I mean, to get the special endings you have to be the same house as your mentor - so much for being anything you want.
The only way they can save this is to add better endings, step up the optional romance and/ or make the choices really worth their impact. Many already ask for a DLC to fix this or to get more information and closure about the events afterwards.
Heck, I even investigated on the hidden meanings in the BGs, CGs and ending titles!
I really don't want to stop anyone from playing it, it was in a sense still an unique experience and story with great assets - from the art, the backgrounds, the music and the writing but I wouldn't give this more than a 7.5/10 because of this major flaw.
Very good write-up of the meta reasons behind why some people found the game to be so disappointing. I still believe there was quite a big disparity between how the game was advertised/sold to the public VS what the end product actually ended up being, like they ripped the rug out from under the player's feet just to laugh at them when they tumble over. It's not a very nice experience, even less so when you're not expecting it.
ALL OF WHAT YOU SAID IS TRUE, I was also hoping for a suicide ending on my first route (and only route so far, Im just so depressed now) Id rather kill myself than get killed.
If your taking a pass, I would highly recommend that you play it when it's on sale. The endings can be duds for many people, but the journey is worth a few plays. It's haunting, funny, and dark.
Eh, I agree with your last point to a certain extent. Visual novel writers should be able to write whatever the heck they want, but not on Kickstarter dime. Though legally the project creator is only beholden to delivering the project, they are expected on a social level to deliver a project that satisfies backers. This is the implicit agreement Kickstarter donors have with project managers when they give them their money. Not doing so incurs social consequences, and depending on the context, these consequences can be justified (i.e. marketing it in Kickstarter as one thing, and delivering it as another).
As to whether RE:H was ever labelled as a romance...I'm not sure? I check otome, dating sim, and romance tags all the time here, so I'm pretty sure that's how I first came across RE:H. Looking at the tags on the product page now though, none of those are there, so...*shrugs* Maybe they changed it or I came across it some other way. If anyone else can chime in on that, I'd appreciate it.
Mmm, I think that particular kickstarter post you brought up is part of the issue here.
It’s a story about you, your power, and your role in the world. The love interests are a part of your story—you don't have to just be a part of theirs.
This bit specifically. A lot of people commenting here felt like they didn't have much power in the story, because most endings ended badly. Which....that feeling isn't technically contradicting that tag line-the story is about you and your power in the the world, but the lack of it rather. However, I feel most probably took it to mean the story was about the empowerment of being a vampire, and maybe the consequences of it. So not being able to at least help your LI or having them go off the deep end for seemingly no reason felt like whiplash.
...I had a bit more here but given that it's a psychoanalysis of the writers (aka people I can't even say I know) it feels inappropriate to say anything. The game is what it is, and I hope it finds the folks out there that'll wholly love it.
For Markus you just side with the different factions for the three endings - Mavvar, Golgotha, Iscari. For the special ending you have to meet the requirements of playing through the Iscari ending and the special endings for Randal and Heath, also you have to play as a Golgotha to see red choices popping up, which you have to select.
Short answer: No, no happy endings, with the possible exception of Markus' special ending. But you stay alive in most endings.
Long answer: If you get shot, it means that you choose a faction that doesn't like/trust you enough to save you. If you made a deal with Lazarus, he will indeed aid you, but not at this point, but rather in the final battle. (He also will go after Andrei and might even succeed onscreen, depending on you choices.) If you have enough influence with the faction of your choice, you will be saved by that faction and you will make it through the story alive. As for the mentors, there are no ways to "fix" Heath or Randal or even just keeping them from getting worse, though there are endings where they stay with you. Markus' endings are not quite that gloomy, though I found them still pretty depressing, with the exception of his special ending, as already mentioned.
PS: I definitely didn't feel like the game endorses drugs, quite the opposite. That Heath tries to escape from reality and numbs himself is actually his fatal flaw. Mind you, you don't have to sleep with him, and you can also just pretend to take the drugs, if you don't mind deceiving him.
Thanks for the reply! Yeah in the sex scene, I went back and just chose sit with Heath in the alley haha, f cold sex man haha. Thank you for the tips! So my mistake was actually believing what Heath said in the beginning, that peace was possible (naive of me xD) so I just equally divided my attention among all three but I guess this game doesn't allow it. I will replay the game then and will follow your advice ^ω^
Okay I have just this last question left (maybe Ill have more when I find the time to replay):
Do I have to be in the same house as my mentor in order to get the best route? Because I read in previous comments that you need to be Golgotha and get the visions to get best Markus route? >_<
You actually can go independent and sort of unite the houses, but it's pretty iffy. You not only need a high reputation with all factions, but you also have to bring up the topic with the Iscari and Randal before you declare your alliance. If done right, you can pick "My rebellion!" and Randal and his group will save you, though there will still be a fight because Saorise and Andrei will not give up that easily. So it basically plays out like siding with the Mavvar, only that at the end you are in charge with Randal as your right hand instead of the other way around, and the remaining vampires in the city are more diverse instead of consisting mostly of Mavvar. So, yes, you can bring the three houses together, but not peacefully. There will always be a final clash and Saorise and Andrei will never accept you.
As for your question, you have to be in the same house as your mentor to get the special endings. Those are not necessarily the best endings, mind you. I found Randal's special ending horrifying and Heath's was a tragedy. Only Markus' special ending has an uplifting note. Mind you, you have to get the former two before you can unlock Markus' special ending (which I consider the "true" ending, btw).
If it's alright, can you give me some more pointers in how to get the leader ending? I am on Randall's path and I had high rep points with all houses (wasn't equally high but they were close enough) and I did tell Randal, the Iscari, and that Mavvar guy that I will unite LA but for some reasons, the "My rebellion" option has never came up. Did you perhaps maxed out determination and if so, how? Or maybe I'm not supposed to agree to Andrei's deal, I don't know. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong and it's getting tiring to go through his route over and over again just to get the leader ending. (Since I've already got all of Randall's other endings, including the special ending)
I would love to help you, but I'm not sure where you went "wrong" either. If you used the options to talk about it beforehand and have sufficient reputation with the factions, then I'm stumped as to what could be missing. But the deal with Andrei shouldn't be the issue, since I took that too. As for the personality traits, I'm not sure how they factor in, but since I played my Iscari as somebody who can take care of herself and isn't easily daunted, my character turned out indeed pretty determined, though the stat wasn't maxed. (Here are my exact stats at the moment of the proclamation oy my rebellion, in case anyone wants to take a closer look: https://imgur.com/zWpqiir) I wish I could be more of a help, but maybe someone else knows more?
That aside, are you trying to get Randal's second ending? Just asking, because I tried the very same thing, only to find out that it isn't linked to that at all. There seems to be only one ending for the rebellion, whether you side with Randal or go on to unite LA, and it even plays out mostly the same, with only minor differences in the epilogue. Spoilers ahead, for those who want to know: For the second ending, you have to side instead with Andrei, while also making a deal with Lazarus. At the end, you will notice Lazarus sneaking up on Andrei, just let him do his stuff.
I just got Randal's secret ending last night and dear god, you're right. It's terrifying. I saw your post before I ever unlocked it but I was expecting Randal to go on a killing spree or something. I did not expect... well, *that*. It made it hard to sleep, man, damn.
I hate to say this but I thought he looked kinda hott without the beard... Then my heart broke when he gave me that scornful look
You are right, he DOES look hot without the beard. Actually, I've thought "I wonder how he looks without the beard" for most part of the game. It's just that when you finally see it, well.... let's just say by that time I wanted my bearded teddybear in casual clothes back. *whimper*
Thanks a lot for the tips, I guess I did it wrong because my stats were high that I was being rumored to side with the Rebellion but I was afraid to pick any forms of "rebellion" options after Heath said they would target him first and I didnt want him to die. Let me see if I can still recover my Mavaar MC and Heath relationship :( (i like contrasting lovers so haha)
I wont try Randal's ending if its really thay disturbing xD
No happy endings as we define them, not even bittersweetness. Markus has the happiest endings so far (Project Mayhem ending where you are the leader instead and get approved by him with the hope of him returning and his true special ending).
One for Randal that's kind of meh is where you side with Andrei, make a deal with Lazarus and let him kill Andrei afterwards choosing to look for Randal. You have to make your headcannon that MC will find him one day and maybe have a happily ever after.
Heath will always be tragic, either he disappears, cuts himself off from reality or well, becomes an angel.
But that it just the thing: You DO change things for the three mentors, just not for the better. And while that makes sense in Markus' case (he wants to show his "apprentice" the truth, which kicks off the attack against him), we are offered no such reason for Heath and Randal. If you don't pick them as your mentor, they are not shown to take an unavoidable turn for the worse. Of course one might argue that we are simply not shown, but on the other hand you can end the game by Randal's side, even if he wasn't your mentor, and it is never mentioned that he becomes withdrawn and disheveled - something that definitely should draw attention if you are his second in command or vice versa. I admit that I dislike stories where you can "fix" people with deepseated issues just with the power of love, but I'm not fond of this forced nosedive as well.
I just started on this game and immediately after ending Heath's route, I requested for a refund.
The game is so depressing, I cant take it. I invested so much love and effort comforting Heath, only to end up with him being so broken and emotionless "_"
I know the devs wanted to make it as realistic as possible. Like I get it; life isnt always rainbows and butterflies. But if you're gonna throw that kind of shit to me, might as well dont give me any romance options in the first place.
If only I knew Heath would end up that way, I wouldnt bother going all out to comfort him. All the love and time I invested turns out to be pointless at the end.
^Heath watching the romance movie on a continuous loop. After that war ended, he just seemed to lose all sense of sanity and comprehension. My poor baby :( If this isnt some messed up shit, Idk what is.
Atfirst I thought I had gotten the bad ending but after researching about it online and watching playthrough of some youtubers, seems to me that all the characters are pretty fucked up. They all have some sort of issues or if they dont, they will end up with it. Just like how Heath ended so emotionless, Randal's ending was pretty similar.
I actually emailed the devs about this. I asked if there are any plans on making happy endings. And the fact that Im not the one wanting happy endings says alot. They have yet to get back to me but hopefully, i wont get dissapointed.
yea from what i have seen a lot of the sex scenes are super weird and mostly very guilt trippy its fucked up like marcus asexual ok cool i dont mind that i wouldn't mind if they all were but its kinda messed up the game seems to expect us to just know or not do it.I wasnt expected fluffy super happy endings but jfc . so much of the choices are pointless and lead to bad things even vtmb has decent endings and that only has a few and none make you replay the game several times to get yet another bleak end but yeah writing and art and music is great just some things need changing