Fast-paced strategy with an (Oliver) Twist. Bribe, blackmail, and assassinate your opposition. · By
I like this game so much! Thank you to the couple of chaps in here that told me about it, and mainly you, guys for making it!
I have some interrogations
The Saboteur description in the "tech tree" specifies it can "scout tiles". Is this a wording only issue, or can he also raise some fog of war in some way?
The few games I have played, excepting a very particular situation (specifically in the very early game, so the MT's dagger isn't upgraded, and right after dispatching the rival's gang) the boosting of health of gangs through Thugs seems like a major waste of ressources. Anybody having the same experience? Is it only a newbie trap so we invest into our gangs thinking we can kick ass with them, while we have to learn to say 'good-bye"? Or maybe it is because I am such a thugs lover *errm*
Related: the bonus to gang's health from upgrading the... whatever the thug place is, doesn't apply for the existing one(s) - only the newly spawned ones - which is the reverse of the behavior of the tech tree upgrades, so a bit of a bummer. But it also makes investing in this building much less interesting in my opinion. Would it be overpowered the other way around?
Finally, is a Friend's list (preferrably, with stats) envisaged for the full game?
Thanks, Danjuro!
To your questions:
Ah, another small question (it probably was explained in the tutorial, but...) : I thought the burglary reward were 2 coins -> 1 coin -> nothing, but sometimes, when I enter a building, I get a lantern while, honnestly, I am really looking for coins. Is it random, or because the building had already been visited by the other player, or maybe is it tied to the Art Critic perk (it seems to be happening later in the game, although it could just be an impression)?
Thank you for your help in advance.
Per the devs:
"Burgling a large money sack will either give 2 coins or 1 lantern, with about a 25% chance of getting 1 lantern. Small sack always gives 1 coin. THere's no way to know what you'll get from a large sack ahead of time."
I think I've received nothing, at times, when burgling a dark building (which means it hasn't be burgled, yet). So I'm not certain dark buildings always have a large money sack waiting, or if there's a chance it contains nothing.
If your opponent has gotten to the building first, you will get nothing (or 1 coin if they've only visited the building once). So, all dark buildings are guaranteed to have burglary rewards at the beginning of the game, but your opponents can change the playfield out from under you :)
(Also, it's possible that a dark building that doesn't have footprints next to it has still been burgled by an opponent saboteur.)
Hi,
I've been enjoying the game for a few days now, and wanted to share some of the stuff I think can be improved:
I'm sure some of it has been noted before, just trying to help by letting the dev's know. Good luck finishing the game! (It actually looks pretty finished already :-)
I fixed the issue by deleting the file and just unzipping it again(just felt like it was something that I should share).
Also , the latest update seems to trigger windowsscreen protection. It brings up a blue box that says it is from an unknown publisher and may harm your computer and I have to select run anyways.
Prior version didn't do that. So, I don't know if it's something with the new build or my computer suddenly became over-protective, or it's being a good wingman for Stardew Valley.
Just played multiple games simultaneously without logging out of the game, and continuously got emails telling me a new turn was ready, which I already saw in-game. It would be nice if the email notification for new turns is turned off while you are in the game itself, as I now have a ton of emails telling me about turns I already took.
Second comment is that I just lost a game, and it immediately took me back to the menu. However, I could see there was a message from the other player, but was unable to read it due to automatically leaving the game and after that I could not return to it as it was finished.
Yep, this is on the list of things to fix. The (minor) trickiness is that, since you don't have a persistent connection to the server (that is, the game reconnects to the server each time you load a game or send a turn or fetch new games or whatever), the server doesn't "know" when you're actually in-game. But I think we can work around this by simply putting off sending "your turn!" emails until your account hasn't made a server request for X minutes or whatever.
After playing the game I have a couple of suggestions. There seem to be some random elements that can really affect a game, I'm not sure if this design is intended or not but I figured I'd mention it anyway.
1. Depending on the location of the starting trading house sometimes it can be accessed without having to walk through fog of war. This means one player can get a small advantage very early by essentially gaining one free action point (as they only spend one AP burgling the trading house instead of two scouting the trading house then burgling it.
2. The spawning of gems in estates can give players a big advantage. I have had games where gems spawn on my opponents turn four or five times in a row and instead I get paintings spawning on my turn four or five times in a row. In the mid to late game where lanterns become less relevant this can determine games.
3. The starting location of the bank can be too favorable to players. If one player has the bank right next to their starting location they have a massive advantage over their opponents. 3 gold per turn that is difficult to contest if the bank is on your opponents side of the map is too strong. I have some suggestions: 2 banks spawn on each map at opposite ends, the bank's starting location is set to a specific neutral location or a random allotment of neutral locations, or the bank only awards 2 gold per turn when fully infiltrated.
I also think the ability for urchins to evict other urchins from buildings should be a starting ability of theirs and not only available to the person that has fully infiltrated the orphanage. Gangs are not very effective as eviction tools as doing so exposes your gang to your opponent which means your gang dies and theirs snowballs. Therefore gangs are most effective at contesting your opponents gang or farming gold. This leaves only truant officers which are quite far down on the perk tree and are only cost effective when removing 3 urchins at once. Thus there are only very inefficient methods to evict buildings with 1 or 2 urchins in them. Allowing urchins to start with the ability evict others will assist this, otherwise it might be good to create a new unit entirely for this, like a mini truant officer.
A final suggestion. I understand that this one will most likely only be viable much further down the development line. A mode that has round timers to ensure turns are played consecutively would be good. This eventually could be turned into a ranked mode if there is any interest in running something like that.
Thank-you. Really enjoying the game.
Huge thanks for this feedback! Certainly appreciate you taking the time to both play and share this.
1) Agreed, something we need to look at to ensure fairness.
2) Also something we need more data to accurately determine what work's best. The maps and estate locations also greatly impact how the Gems/Paintings come in to play and when.
3) Agree to an extent, but nonetheless something we need to evaluate for fair play. If one person has a clear advantage to the bank, then the other play should have something on their side of the map to balance it out (in theory).
4) Urchins and Evicting -- This is an area I've been tinkering with as well, and it may well be the fact that evicting only currently works well when someone is way head. Like you said, maybe urchins should have this ability from the start or perhaps it's an upgrade in the skill tree. This is an area I'm particularly interested in exploring more as I find evicting a somewhat tedious task currently.
Hi. Thanks for opening up the First Access again. I watched Splattercat's 3 part series on the game and knew instantly that I had to try it. So far it's a fun game. A touch too easy but you've already stated that the AI is kinda stupid at the moment, and that's okay.
Just a suggestion. The character selection feautre is purely cosmetic. I think it would be cool if each character had a unique trait or ability or some such thing. I understand that that might prove probelmatic for multiplayer, so maybe the player could choose from a list of traits or abilities to make the character a little more unique. Perhaps it could be an in game feature, infiltrate 3 urchins into a unique building will unlock the PC's special ability, and the player and his/her opponent can fight over the building.
Thanks again for the cool game.
Besides after winning (or losing) a game you are unable to view any messages sent, you also cannot have one last look at the city. As I play multiple games I don't specifically remember all the details, and it would be nice to see the city (and messages) one last time before the game is removed from the games list. Maybe a button to visit the city after ending the game, with a default click on the screen going to the menu?
Something needs to be done about Thug spam. It's too easy for a player with 3-HP Thugs and the use of Charity to force a Poison Dagger Master Thief to always use his one attack on one of those Thugs, thereby preventing him from eliminating enemy Gangs that level up without resistance. He needs to be given a means to bypass enemy Thugs (but not Villains and Henchmen), perhaps adding such a skill to the end of the Skulldugery Sneakery tree.
In one of my current games (which is closing in on Turn 20), my opponent has been plopping two 3-HP Thugs on either side of my Guild Hall's exit point for the last 8+ turns, forcing me to use my Master Thief's one attack to kill one of them to acccess the remainder of the map. So now I'm unble to threaten his 2-HP Gang (also note that he no longer needs to add Thugs to them, since my Master Thief must always use his one attack on a Thug), since newly hired Gangs come with only 1 Damage. So any Gang I hire is immediately killed by his Gang on his next turn.
It's not a fun experience when a player has no means to deal with such a map state.
Totally agreed... and I am the guy that who was doing that spam, in that game.
I suggested a simple workaround elsewhere, as this exploit is probably not at all what the author had in mind when designing the thug: maybe making the thief's lair have 2 exits (i.e, a backdoor) once the back of the building is scouted?
I agree, and we'll be making changes to nerf this strategy soon. The suggestion about a skill that allows the master thief to bypass enemy obstacles is interesting. I think what we'll likely do - to start, at least - is just designate a set of protected tiles around each guild. Enemies will be able to pass through those tiles, but not stop on them.
A good game.
What I will say is that it feels that the game can be won or lost on area control. If you manage to control all areas and deny resources to opponents, then there will be no recovery and an automatic victory... to me it detracts from the theme as well.
Also its a bit confusing that there is only 1 thief in a theives' guild.
Controlling resources and denying your opponent access to them, while they are trying to do the same to you, is what makes it a strategy game. Problems arise when there is a certain strategy that cannot be countered. Then the game becomes a simple race to see who can be first to push the 'I win' button.
I think the arbitrary point control is the problem. I can't see why people can benefit from the same locations. Multiple teams of Urchins stealing from the same area and if there are two many on the same site, the bobby (Police) investigating and scaring them off (lost to the players for a few turns but slowly come back) creating a risk reward mechanic, even using this to deny resources in this way.
Come to think of it, where are the Police? You'd think that the Police would be present in a game about thieves? Patrolling every turn and detecting in an area.
Hey there! Found this game through the current charity competition from a streamer I watch, love the game and the core mechanics thus far from what I've seen and the handful of games I've played now. (this got lengthier than I intended, whoops)
A lot of my feedback stems from simply a lack of other players at the moment which is to be expected given that the games in early access with a limited # of keys out right now, that said the game doesn't make it any easier to accommodate for that currently. I personally prefer to play 1 game of antihero start to finish in single sitting as opposed to multiple simultaneously. The current system makes that exceptionally difficult, promoting opening dozens of games through the asynchronous format in the hope to find that one person who is actively present on the other side. And for that one person you find, you end up with 10-20+ active matches across only a couple people who at the time were likely doing the same thing but unable to leave the queue if they had to leave. Finally once you've found that person whose actively playing, you're forced to communicate between turns before the game ends (it updates during turns but isn't retroactive I've noticed, requiring a refresh of the current game to see if anything was said before turn ends) to find each other through 3rd parties/social media such as facebook, discord, forums, etc. if you want to have future subsequent active live games.
Feedback:
Few bugs/minor things I've seen
Hi there,
I bought the first access yesterday, and so far i am liking it. Only been playing skirmishes so far and i read the disclaimer about the AI being 'dumb'. Still i thought some feedback in this regard might be useful.
- In the scenario 'masquerade' the AI seems to ignore the masquerade ball tactic so far.
- I think i saw the opposing master thief attack my gang, followed by an attack via assassin - isn't that wasting an action point?
I'm still getting the hang of the game. Just trying to be helpful. I'll just post whatever i think feels weird.
Great work in creating this game, you guys! Thanks.
I just got this game and have been playing it with a friend. It's very enjoyable so far. I don't have much feedback to provide on balance yet, but I can already tell this game is very well suited for more than 2 players. I don't believe it would be too much work to implement and I think it's a feature that would greatly enhance the enjoyment of the game.
I know someone already mentioned this, but I wanted to stress how important I think it is and reinforce it with another request for it!
Ah okay, first i thought it was a bug, but then i figured as much. I was just confused because the description just tells about revealing districts and trapping. At the moment i don't feel it's overpowered, but then again i just found out about those possibilities. Maybe some other players feel the same and would use him even more.
What really made him interesting to me is that he can't be block. Just like the knight in chess. I always compare your game to chess in my head or when i tell people about it. I guess that is what fascinates me so about it. That the randomness factors in very little (although there is no randomness at all in chess) and that you basically have a relatively small, overseeable set of possible actions that allow four countless combinations and tactics.
I read that some remarked that the placement of buildings is sometimes a little unfair, e.g. when one player starts with a bank very close by. Or that one time where i was able to infiltrate to Trade House in the first round :D. I basically agree with that statement, although i think one has to be careful how to handle that. If one makes everything same for parties then players would never have to adapt, and "best strategies" would quickly emerge. What i think is necessary is something on the other players side that allows him for a counter strategy. I also get the feeling that you already wrote the algorithm with this in mind, but sometimes i think one side is really worse off. Then again, i probably just lack the experience.
Anyways i am really excited to see where this is going and i am glad and thankful to be a part of first access.
bug I just found, its not possible to place a guard where it spawns, nor is it to move the guard to place it where it was. I had my thief on the normal home tile and then bought a guard. the guard appeared 1 block down at a cross roads where I wanted to set him to guard. since selecting the tile just selects the unit even if already selected, and ending my turn pulls him back into the hideout, the gold was wasted that turn and the area wasn't protected. either make it so selecting the space the units are already on actually selects the space, or have guards deploy where they stand if they aren't given actions the turn their bought on please and thank you.
