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Gameplay/Mechanics Discussion Sticky

A topic by bitshiftgames created Jun 15, 2023 Views: 13,129 Replies: 129
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(+1)

Wow I beat the game, this is way harder than before and I appreciate for making so. One wrong step and I am going back a few save file. I love the gimmick and mechanics. This is game worth every penny and I would pay even more just to play it, the story is amazing and the scenes is hot.  Through the dialogues and information I understood the a lot about the lore and I am  very invested, I just love everything about it,  I cannot express much. All the best for you in the future.

Developer

Excellent. I think what I was aiming for in general was to make it both harder and easier, more properly balanced overall. Better challenge on the enemies, but avoiding situations like the stair guard. But thanks so much for the kind words! It's been a long time in production, so it's great to see people finally getting, and enjoying it.

(+1)

loving the game so far, full thoughts on it later, but for now is it possible to expand the number of available saves? In the absence of a gallery (and honestly, even with) I like saving before every encounter that may give a unique scene, but on 20 slots I run out of slots very quickly :(. I had do 25 for this playthrough, which is probably on the extreme end, but there's even more content incoming so I'm kinda worried I might have to delete even more saves in the future.

Developer (1 edit)

Edit: Actually, stumbled on some info recently, and it seems this may be easily tweakable. Keep an eye on future releases.

Limitation of the engine, unfortunately. Keep in mind that the save files are just that, however. If you really want to, there's nothing stopping you from creating a block of them, copying most into a sub-folder in the save folder, and then continuing on to create a new block. Bit of a hassle to swap the blocks out, but better than nothing. In the absence of that, I'd recommend saving only when you're about to do something potentially risky, and having a revolving "progress save" as you work your way through a given combat map. Although there are a few surprises, in general I try to signpost major events somewhat.

(+1)

Will we eventually be learning what's behind the basement door under the hotel?

Developer

Not in this chapter. Eventually though.

(+1)

Pls I rlly need help at entertainment district 3 I'm stuck there I can't beat the 5 hyenas where 2 of them using orange suit and 3 of them using purple suit they just to fkin hard to beat I got no more dazzle blast pls I need help

Developer

Make sure you're fully healed and...energy-d? before the fight. Do you mean you're going into that fight without Blast? Probably out of luck then. The "right" way to fix it would be to start from an earlier save and manage your items better. But if you're feeling impatient and have the Charm, use that to disable the hypno for the fight, which should help considerably. That said, I'm not sure that fight is winnable without Blast. My gut says probably, but you'll have to make several attempts with the charm on.

(+1)

Does the RNG get somewhat fixed if you keep reloading to get different results? kind of a hard question to understand, but basically i backed myself into a corner by losing too many times, i cant even get grappled or i lose, also was very stupid and only used a single save so im a few hours in and not wanting to reset the whole game, but what ive noticed, is that after a while of reloading and winning fights that way, the enemies arre far more likely to use moves that screw me over, i no longer seem to avoid the stun move, it always happens on the first turn or at the start of the second. Maybe its just bad luck and me being frustrated but decided to ask if theres any logic here. Honestly might actually consider just restarting, its getting annoying lol.

Developer

I can't say in terms of it adjusting or not. In theory RNG should be the same regardless, a fresh chance every time you try a battle again. But there are a number of timers in the game: one that ensures daze happens at least once every five battles, for example. So if you happen to be lined up with one of those, yeah, it'll be a bit tougher.

Really though, this one's on you. No game should ever be played on a single save.

(+1)

Ah gotcha, yeah i wasnt managing to win if daze triggered so id reload till i got through the fight without it happening. Also yeah i know i should have made more saves, just really didnt think about it at the time. Thank you for info tho.

(+1)

Overall mechanically I think things are fairly well balanced until Entertainment District 3, if you've used up your Dazzle Blasts at that point you pretty much have to save scum for some good luck.  If you do have DBs you can still get hosed by RNG if you miss or just overly spread the damage.  If you enter the alley already Slipping you will probably auto-lose to the Trainer without good RNG from either Hard Knocks or Hard Times.   It's kind of a bummer since you can basically end up in a near-fail state on your game with no chance to recover short of just getting really lucky.

Developer

This is by design. It's supposed to be a challenge, to make the host club a tempting alternative. Of course the club isn't in yet, so it's just extra punishing for now, but that'll be the structure of it eventually. You really should have at LEAST one Dazzle Blast at that point unless you've been wasting them though. The game gives you a ton. Some people were even carrying them over to the boss until I prevented that.

(+1)

I kind of figured that the alley is supposed to be the hard mode for when you have abundant combat resources to spend while the other route might have it's own deterrents.  

(+1)

hello, please I need I am with Satin and I can't find her mirror can you help me thank you.

Developer

Pay attention to what each person in the chain says, they give you pretty clear hints on who to ask next.

one of the green bitches just said that he had returned, that's what I don't understand

that he had returned the object, sorry for my more than doubtful English I am French

Developer

Yes, so work through that. If he returned it, where is it now?

if he returned it then it is satan who has it but yet I return satan but it does not work

Developer

It's "Satin", that may be where you're having trouble. "You" works as well. But that prompt he gives you is a text box, you have to type something in.

(+1)

I got stuck in here as well, I didn't realize it was asking for something to be typed in instead of giving a list of options, I just pressed esc so didn't know it was prompt box, thanks for the clarification.

Developer

No problem!

(+1)

Is there a way to mess around with the files to increase the save slots?

Developer(+1)

You can save your existing save files to a sub-directory and swap them out as needed if you want. Apparently there's a fairly simple engine tweak that can increase the number of slots, so I'll be looking into that for the next version release.

(+2)

A few things
1) The stun having priority over your turns feels excessive, when you're already guaranteed to lose 2 turns to it

2) The stun should also just end your turn automatically? I don't see why it doesn't do that

3) The general lack of options you have access to leads to really boring battles, especially when the vast majority of the battles are just the same 3 hyena fight (maybe it gets better later, but the early parts of the game suffer playing less like a game, and more like a flowchart that's just "Hard Knocks -> Attack Lowest HP Enemy -> Repeat Step 1, use healing if 1-2 hits from death"), and the lack of any real energy management between battles also takes out a level of strategy, leading to combat feeling even more samey and bland

(Also, the fact that you can just get one turn subbed, because rngesus just said so feels wrong)

Developer (1 edit)

1. I may not know enough about RPG Maker mechanics to answer this accurately, but from what I understand it's always in the same order: enemies do their moves, if able, in sequence, then you go, then they go again (Unless the game maker tweaks it, which I haven't). So I don't think the daze really "takes priority" over your turn: when it's their turn, and they can use it, they may use it, same as any other attack.

2. In my mind it made sense to have a null move to keep track of when each round of turns ended. Now that you mention it yes, it might be more elegant to just skip player turn, so I may look into that. There's a good chance I'd have to redo a number of other things that are relying on the timing to be as it is now though, so we'll see.

3. This is both by necessity and design. Designing super complex and satisfying rpg fight mechanics isn't really my forte, and I actually think it detracts from this kind of game. Grove for example has a lot of things going for it, but its battle systems are so complex they require multiple tutorials, and that ended up being a wall for me when I tried to play it.

I don't want to make things TOO simple, and I haven't. CS combat isn't just "Hit the enemies with your one attack until they die", there are some considerations for timing, whether you should recharge Hard Knocks, heal, or just go for a regular attack, whether you should risk more aggressive play to end the battle sooner or play it safe to avoid the risk of hypno, when's best to use the Dazzle Blast attack, and so on. And I do regret not being able to do a LITTLE more in terms of enemy variety.

But even if I could make the battle mechanics exactly as I wanted, with a bunch of new enemies and art assets, I still wouldn't make the mechanics all that much more complex. This just isn't that kind of game. The battles in CS are meant to provide some degree of challenge and risk and aid in the story that's being told. They're not meant to be the centerpiece. Or at least, not in terms of complexity and depth.

So the answer is that they're as good as I can manage, with my small brain. And they're as good as they need to be to make the game work overall. That's not to say I don't want to improve them: I'll continue tweaking here and there. I think GT's combat is a certainly improved from CS1. Just don't expect anything TOO elaborate.


Also unless I'm forgetting something, you shouldn't be getting one-turn-subbed, or at least one-turn-hypno'd, unless you're referring to the trainers. Daze does usually get your sub to 100, but "open" can't be applied until you're out of it, so you don't go from 0 to locked into hypno without a chance to fight back.

The force daze after 4 fights of not being dazed happens at the start of turn 2 instead of during the enemy action, which interrupts the player action effectively adding an extra turn of stun.  It's extra punishing but when it happens you just went 4 fights without being dazed so it's not too bad.   This appears to be the only place where enemies act first.  In other circumstances you choose your action, then you act, then the enemies act.

Developer

Tested this out, fighting and letting myself gradually accumulate the hypno statuses.

Out of the battles accumulating the statuses, I got dazed once, and it was never an issue (IE, could have easily won the fight without hypno if I had wanted to).

Once I got to "Slipping", I saved and replayed the next battle several times:

-First time, no daze, no hypno. Defeated enemies without issue.

-Second time, defeated the enemies rapidly (3 turns), no daze, no hypno.

-Third time, no daze, no hypno. Defeated enemies without issue.

Given, this was an unusually good string of RNG. But the point is it's just that: RNG. There's no hard-coded system that ensures there's always a daze on the second turn (again, unless you happen to be on the fifth battle without daze, in which case, bad luck). And in general, the balance of the RNG isn't too brutal. Sometimes you'll get good strings, sometimes bad, but if you're managing time and items properly, you shouldn't be reloading THAT much, especially on the first half of Ent. Dist. I.

(+1)

Minor suggestion, as you have spoken about JRPG neat little details and there are small things that excites me a bit from playing a sequel :

-carry over some items from previous game, maybe consumables since they won't really affect the game in a major way.

-extra accessory with minor boost like +10 max stamina, even better if they have visual effect on Mezz like a collar, nipple ring, or earring.

- an Easter egg referring an event from the previous game or maybe even a unique mob/boss encounter, though it might be a task in itself.


With that being said, great job! Looking forward for the upcoming CGs.

Developer

Thanks for the feedback, and glad you're enjoying it so far.


1. No really worth the hassle in terms of complexity and the potential to throw off balance. In general it's much easier to "clean slate" each game. That's why what I did choose to carry over is story-related, rather than gameplay.

2. Again, once you start modifying stats with accessories that's a whole 'nother level of complexity to try to balance and play test. It also means an impractical level of sprite work, since I don't "layer" my sprites like some games. This means I have to do a new sheet for every combination if I'm going to represent it visually, which is obviously untenable. A few costume changes are doable, especially if only one shows up in fights, but not so much for the rest. 

3. Already in, check out the DataCrystal stuff if you haven't. And I plan to build on this in future chapters.

(+1)

Regards my friend. grateful for this new release. This time you really made it difficult. I am in the HAVE and I have only found 1 hamburger and the CRASH. I have spoken with the shadows. I have entered the hotel, the square bathroom and the alleys. but I can't find anything to continue advancing... what am I missing?

Developer

That's Haven, but don't worry, I had a few mangled words in the game myself before some of the bug testers pointed them out. If you don't know what to do next in Haven, pay closer attention to what Mezz says at various points, that'll point you in the general direction of what you're doing next. Other than that, just explore: make sure you've gone everywhere and talked to everyone. Worst case, talking to every NPC in Haven only takes a few minutes.

(+1)

OKI DOKI... thank you...

(+1)

khazeem doesnt seems possible (atleast without dazzle blast). I used all of dazzle blasts on each 5 enemies encounters and now i trying tp beat khazeem but he hypnotize me  through i trying  to spam hard knocks,focus and even sometimes make an attack instead of blocking his hard attack. I even tried to use hyena  cologne but its still not enough,ive lost +/-10 times so far. Not less frustrating-you cant skip scene after losing and then you have very slow credits that you cant skip,so you have to re open game each time you lose.

Developer

Definitely shouldn't be that hard. You're missing something, though I'm not sure exactly what. Keep in mind you can use the cologne multiple times (and will probably need to as it wears off). With that taken care of, it should just be a matter of the usual attacks and waiting Khazeem out.

(+1)

Note that  the cologne has a duration, you might need to re-apply it periodically.

(+1)

I love both games so far and can't wait to see where it's going.

I have a question tho. If you want to do a full slut playthrough, is the ending where the main Hyena boss makes you submit an ending that will continue the story or that is a dead end?
If it is a dead end I am having a really big trouble beating him even with the hypno immunity item because as soon as i use it he stops doing mind games and starts attacking normally, and when the immunity falls off the boss just starts spamming hypno for me.

Developer (2 edits)

Glad you're enjoying the games so far!

The ending with the scene is a dead-end, yes. There will be another once I finish up the slut mode content. As for the fight itself, which hypno-immunity item? The good luck charm won't help with him, you need another. If you ARE using the one specifically for him, defeating him shouldn't be that difficult. Keep in mind that it's a multi-use item, and you have to re-up as the fight goes on.

(+1)

Oh thank you, I didn't notice it was multi-use, thought it was a one time consumable.

Keep up the good work ^^

(1 edit) (+1)

So I've been playing since Cruel Serenade 1 and finally got around to buying and playing this one, and I have a recommendation. 

I got used to the game mechanics fast, they're very clever, and they require thinking through rather than just swinging blindly for optimal performance.  The big hyena honcho I unfortunately already forgot the name of (not Khazeem, the other one you work for) didn't realize it'd be best to save all of my Hard Knocks for when he's winding up, but honestly I was able to beat him just fine with what I already had given I'd been playing my resources carefully and only using them when necessary for the big fights up til now.  I learned pretty early on that keeping a close eye on which enemies Hard Knocks hits allows you to better take out the stragglers so you can slow down the damage build up on Mezz.  And using certain skills for certain times makes it so you basically have to use no items whatsoever, so you can save them for the most crucical parts.

What I'm saying is, this game is very strategic, tactical, and pretty exceptional as far as basic Turn Based RPGs go.  There's a lot of depth here just waiting to be unearthed and expanded on, and if you want I can throw some other ideas your way, but my primary suggestion is this.

So people can feel the struggle of resisting the trance, make it into a tiny puzzle minigame.  Sort of like a block moving puzzle, or one of those light up panel puzzles where depending on a difficulty it may light up the blocks in an X pattern or + pattern, and if you click them again it closes off the lights in that area, etc. etc.  But in this situation, not only make the concept harder for each time you go into trance, but also each time you fail the puzzles.  You can have an option to turn those off for someone who isn't into puzzles or just wants a bit more ease, but I feel like this is a fantastic way to not only show Mezz's brain struggling to realign the pieces and get his footing back under him, but also a perfect way to eliminate the RNG so you can have the enemies be a bit more aggressive in trying to trance him, making combat overall far more of a strenuous dance.  By eliminating RNG, you can go more balls out and you don't have to concern yourself as much with how difficult it may be for the player to get the purity ending due to odds just not being in their favor.

Part of why I recommend this is because I'm big into hypnosis irl, and I know what makes it tick in every way, and why it's so amazingly blissful, and it's why I enjoy this game because it touches on those elements here and there.  And resistance is part of the fun, but so is being able to fight against it, you know?

Possible ideas for making these puzzles, whatever you choose, or maybe even multiple (if you want more puzzle ideas I recommend checking out Fatal Frame 3's Pinwheel, Sleeping Stone, and Pentagram puzzles, they may give you even more ideas), you can either blur the affects, minimize color saturation, cause things to occasionally jumble or get hazy, etc.  Visual affects like that.

You can also, for less puzzle-oriented players, allow for options that increase the time frame in which you solve the puzzles.  Rather than them being forced to turn them off entirely if they're not good at puzzles.  Though that could be an option too.

Developer

Wow, this post puts some of mine to shame for thoroughness. Love it! Let me dig in here.

Glad you're enjoying the non-sex battle mechanics so far. IMHO they're still fairly simple, and that's largely an artifact of me not being an RPG nerd. And also, as I've said elsewhere, I feel difficulty and complexity in a game like this has a sweet spot: it needs to be a LITTLE challenging, so it doesn't become boring, and so you can bring elements of the narrative and characters into it (hyenas do small damage, but they do it fast, they go down quicker but there are more of them, etc). But not overly complex, because that distracts from just enjoying the game. I'm glad what I've got so far is jiving with you.

A few thoughts on the puzzle idea. I'm actually a big fan of "real hypnosis" too, and what's in the games definitely isn't that. But that's a deliberate decision: real trance guidance takes two to five minutes at least, and I don't even want to think about the nightmare that would be trying to squeeze that into RPGMaker's nightmarish text formatting.

Of course that's the extreme end. It's obviously a spectrum, and I do try to push what's in the games beyond just "and then mind control." The fun of this kink is the process, and I do spend a fair amount of time in the proper scenes dwelling on the experience rather than just the bare bones of what's happening.

Here's the thing with battle mechanics though: they've got to keep moving. My original plan for the new GT stuff was even more elaborate. The general idea is that GT is about learning SERVICE rather than SUBMISSION like CS1 was about, and to that end there was this whole elaborate element of turning the battles into whoring sessions. But it DRAAAAGED way too much in practice, and the initial draft was also too...voluntary, which sucked some of the fun out of it. There has to be that loss of control, that floor-dropping-out moment. I was actually concerned that even what ended up in the game might be a bit much for some people, but I think the game moves fast enough that the amount of time you spend with the mechanic isn't TOO bad, isn't enough to make it start to feel annoying or samey.

So that's one of the big reasons I avoided doing anything overly complex. I don't want it to drag, and I don't want the sex mechanics to be overly complicated, any more that I want the normal fight mechanics to be overly complicated. I want the whole thing to flow, for it all to be fairly intuitive for anyone with a reasonable amount of functioning neurons, without needing a tutorial. IMHO if your mechanics need a tutorial, you've failed (at least for the kind of game I'm trying to make). No one wants to read a manual for a sex game. I realize what you're suggesting isn't SUPER complex, but it is still another layer.

Another reason is that any of these mechanics implemented have to fit with the flow of the story and character. Minigames as I'm envisioning them would be a little too abstract, though there might be possibilities if done in a really clever way.

And third, I'm not a super fancy programmer. Most of the stuff in the game is just clicking plugins together like lego bricks (though I DID make something I'm pretty proud of that will hopefully be in the first content pack). So doing anything in battle mechanics beyond the basics gets to be tricky fast.

That said, it is in the back of my mind. I saw an explicit fan-made Undertale fight recently that was...wild. And while I doubt I'll be doing anything that elaborate, it does give some good inspiration. We'll see what develops in the future. To be clear though, fight system for GT is probably in its final form (at least the main one).

(+1)

I AM an RPG nerd so if you ever want advice feel free.  I come for the lewd for these types of games, but I stay for the gameplay.  The gameplay is definitely a bit more polished than the previous installment, and it's impressive that you were able to create such a fairly balanced game with little RPG knowledge under your belt.

And I agree entirely on the fact it needs to strike a tight wire balance.  :)  Anything outside of that is what difficulty sliders are for, but against common believe, making enemies damage sponges and hard hitters doesn't make an RPG more difficult, it's just the illusion of difficulty.  An RPG at its core is about tactics, strategy, and having options that you need to use for the most optimal solution to situations you're involved in, compared to action games that require you to know the fundamentals of your dodging and hitting and various skills.  Someone familiar with both game designs can easily make genres crossing these, similar to something like Parasite Eve 2.

You have a pretty good idea of what makes an RPG tick already, having enemies with different methods of operation, but that's true of many games.  Where it gets really difficult for RPGs is the balancing act as you add more elements, elaborate on pre-existing elements, etc.  Keeping it simple, but allowing for depth is where the cool factor comes in.  Such as an ability that makes an attack guaranteed hit next time - this may not seem like much, but given there's sometimes an opportunity to miss there are circumstances where planning ahead can come in clutch, it's all just a matter of knowing exactly what situations it'd be used in.  After all, it's easy to have moments where you're about to die and RNG just isn't on your side and you lose in traditional RPGs - in harder challenges with Pokemon for instance especially you need to play around crits and misses and have back up plans and prepared for each situation, very rarely letting RNG have its way with you like an unscrupulous dom.  :^)

I agree.  Though to be fair I also have the ability to fall into trance just from sheer energy space alone, even if I don't go fully deep.  But I'm also prone to wanting to relax, even if I try to resist.  There are a lot of elements to hypnosis, and it impacts everyone differently.  Which, while this is clearly fictional hypnosis in the regard that you can't really just throw someone under who's not wanting to (not without putting them through a whole load of stuff in forcibly relaxing them - drugs, binaural beats, occasionally visuals, certain comforting touches (given there's a type of hypnosis that relies on pressure points) - and even then it sometimes has to be consistent to really ingrain.  So don't even worry about trying to squeeze it into text, there are other ways.

Personally, I feel like you do a good job as is with the extrapolation on the process.  The gradual brainwashing and trigger-inputting process you get in the darkened room cutscene is pretty peak, and I feel like the nature of the art and various stimulus that cases the art to change is good enough to make the triggers feel real, palpable, etc.

I love doing hypno in roleplay and irl, I may be a bit of a Hypnospace Cadet.  :^)

If it helps, while I tried to avoid it as long as possible (the game's pretty easy currently as far as mechanics go for someone like me, so long as I don't act like an idiot) once I finally couldn't stand it anymore and really just wanted Mezz to go under and forced the issue I really enjoyed the choices you had.  Even if it doesn't really make a difference mechanically I do genuinely believe you should keep those.  We play NSFW games for NSFW, and ultimately this is a consensual experience.  We are roleplaying a noncon experience because horny brain is horny brain.  So never worry about it too much.  I know you gotta strike the balance, but that's also what tags are for, so people know what they're getting into.  I felt it was just voluntary/involuntary enough as it was to be hot.  And it didn't need to be fully fleshed out.  I feel like the sheer breadth of the fact Mezz is clearly a heroboy who is being put under against his will, at least initially, especially due to the dialogues he has with other characters, makes it pretty clear what this game's main fetish is - resistance play + being a cute herosub.  Or as some might put it, a Gyro.  :^)

Besides, you got time to potentially do so, no need to rush it all.  This is only the second chapter, you got time to futz with the mechanics and extrapolate on the basics over time.  Especially since programming will get easier the more you practice, to the point you can start implementing those more complicated things.  And the more code you have, the more you can start copy/pasting and reusing coding assets but changing bits and pieces.

It was definitely not too much for me.  :P

If it helps, I wasn't referring to the sex mechanics themselves, just the entranced part.  Because there's the bit where first they flash signs at you or click a clicker, and it's not only RNG whether or not they proc it, but after your Submission is up it's complete RNG whether or not you are able to get up out of trance after dropping.  And that's where my suggestion comes in, so you can make the chances of them trying such a thing a bit less rare (I had it happen maybe twice in three times as many battles, and the second I just reeeeeally wanted to... you know), and also makes it so you don't have to rely on RNG alone to get out of trance while in it.  But with the difficulty increasing with just small visual affects, you can ultimately make it less likely for someone to get out of it if they keep putting themselves in situations where they get to 100% Submission.  Or, you know, don't wear the charm.  :^)  And if you do this you can also include items like the charm that make it easier to do those puzzles, even outside of the options allowing you to turn that off to return back to the basic coding the way it was originally.

You are right though, no one wants to read a manual for a sex game. It's why all of my dice games, especially my Brain Tamers one, is rather simple all things considered.  All dice games and NSFW games should be simple enough to read half a page or two pages (or pick up on what is going on fairly fast, like how elements in a Mega Man game start isolated and separate, but eventually combine in later parts), but complex enough to have depth, with occasionally some extra stuff to use for people who want more of a thing to their thing.  :^)

I remember when this game first came out - the first chapter.  It was how I found you as an artist originally, through some fanart of Cruel Serenade.  I looked into it and you a bit after that, how you'd never programmed before and this was your first real foray into it.  All things start somewhere, the fact you have enough passion to have fun with it and feel proud of your accomplishments and milestones (which you absolutely should, no fucking doubt about that, coding and programming is really hard mate), is what really matters at the end of the day.  And I'm happy to follow this game no matter where you take it or how you take it.

Always let your inspiration run wild.  Even if it ends up not going the direction you wanted it to go, you may still be able to use pieces of what you came up with for something else.  :)

Developer

Excellent then, glad the mechanics were clicking for you overall.

"but after your Submission is up it's complete RNG whether or not you are able to get up out of trance after dropping...that's where my suggestion comes in"

I should clarify, CS1 and GT have very different mechanics here. CS1 allows for a lot of struggle up front, as it's supposed to be more slow and plodding. I wanted the fights in GT to be fast and snappy, so there's deliberately no way to escape once you go under: you're going along for the ride at that point. Some degree of struggle will probably pop up again at some point though, so we'll see.

What do you mean by dice games? Software, or something more IRL like a D&D session?

And aw, thanks, appreciate it. I have my weird little space where I make my weird little games. They're still pretty humble, and I work to gradually improve as I can, but I'm glad people are enjoying what I've got so far.

(+1)

Huh really?  I thought I was able to break out of trance by chance after like two times trying with the elipses function.  Was that weird or am I misremembering?

Actual TTRPG dice systems, but meant more for text than face to face, as writing is more effective for lewds than just saying what you're doing unless you're excellent at phone sex.  :^)

Np at all.  And humility should always be kept.  It's about the passion, not the glory.  About the fun and the arousal and the enjoyment of the process, not the ego.  At least imo.  I am enjoying it alo.  :)  <3

Developer

Unless something is breaking, you shouldn't be able to break out in GT. You could in CS1 with "Struggle" and other stuff, but ... is just a filler skill to progress the battle. 

Ahh, so RP but with objective rules. I've seen some of that, interesting idea.

Aw, and again, thanks.

(+1)

Np.  Hmm... odd.  Did you by chance change the old Struggle to ...?

It's neat.  Dice are suggestions, not rules in circumstances like those, since it's an organic, constantly growing thing with people rather than something that needs concrete rules.

Np.

Developer

No, completely separate command. Don't feel obligated, but if you happen to replay and see it again let me know. Might just be me mis-remembering something or we're talking about different things somehow, but I very specifically made it so you couldn't get out once you were under in GT.

(+1)

I will absolutely try it again next time I boot up.  It won't be hard at all.  :)  <3

(+1)

Okay!  So.  Figured out it was the dazed status effect, not the trance itself, I was confusing the two.  :P





But also I found something really funny!




Also it was interesting.  The scene here and everything after it that I'm showing was both... familiar and also uncomfortable.  But also arousing.  It was like a very tender scar that hadn't fully healed yet but felt incredibly sensitive to the touch and nice.  But it also actively made me more desperate to not play anymore games and actually beat them all up.  The recording of Mezz's trance and getting to watch it back is also hot 20 ways from Sunday and something I've wanted to play before. It's just, you know, quite darker here.  :^)

The game's incredible in every way, and I too as a fellow heroboy cannot determine whether or not I wanna give in or keep fighting.  Because both extremes are tantalizing.  There's a lot of realness in it.  And that's what makes it arousing.  Yet at the same time it's not too real to be unpalatable, just real enough to be uncomfortable and still arousing, and arousing because of that discomfort, while also still being uncomfortable, if that makes sense.

Developer

Ahh, that makes sense then.

Ha! For what it's worth, I did wall off a bunch of stuff for that brief moment you have the hyena in your "party," but it's hard to think of everything. Easy enough to fix though.

And thanks! Connection with Mezz was definitely a priority while making the game: that's why there aren't any dumb jokes at awkward moments (plenty of dumb jokes at appropriate moments though :D) or other stuff that takes the player out of it. He's definitely intended as something players can self-insert into, potentially without even realizing it at first, rather than just a character to control.

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I've been trying for probably an hour now trying to beat Mahir on the first meeting, and I physically can not. I don't know what it is, but every time he winds up, he just flashes me a look and boom I'm dead. I can't do anything, and I can't figure out the strategy, if there even is one.

Developer

Pay attention to his major attacks, specifically the icon, and what he does. They're similar, but not the same. This is the key to winning the fight. There's a counter to each, but not the same one.

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hi ya i love the game but i do have a question what's the hyena cologne for i picked it up and tried using it in battle but nothing so what's it for???

Developer

One of the boss battles. There'll be hints when it's useful.

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I love how I feel about this game. The corruption doesn't just affect Mezz, it does affect the me too. I say that because I am bad at the game, and have no idea how to maintain the sanity of the bunny that I lose even if I am trying not to. Slowly I feel myself starting to give in and accept I'm shit at the game and maybe should accept Mezz is going to be a toy if I am playing the game, and its slowly breaking myself into the idea.

I mean I could stop playing if I am getting tired but who am I kidding xD

The "hero" in me still thinks if the game can be a little easier, less tedious, or the consequences of losing isn't as impactful. But you do you boo this is amazing as it is.

Developer (1 edit) (+1)

Aw, thanks! And good to hear, that's definitely the intent. I've mentioned it before, but both games are very much designed so that the corruption has to be deliberate: you COULD play through properly (even if it may be a bit tough for you, it's certainly possible), but it's easier if you just give in. And then having some degree of accelerating weakness where the more you give in, the harder it is to go back to normal, until that option is cut off entirely. It's easy to just slap together some bad end game overs and sprinkle them into an otherwise normal game, but it's way more impactful and fun if you leverage the actual INTERACTIVITY of the medium to tempt people to allow it to happen, bit by bit.

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daze needs to be nerfed, whenever I'm hit with it it always interrupts my attack and then i have to sit through 3 turns of having my health halved without being able to do anything about it.  it honestly should not be able to just out right stop your attack from even happening just to allow the enemies to beat you senseless for a full three turns. and yes it is unfortunately 3 turns, the turn where it interrupts your attack, the turn where you are dazed, and the turn where it wears off.

Developer(-1)

At this point I'm probably not going to make major changes to gameplay for GT; most of that was discussed and considered in the first several months following release, and the game has more or less settled into a state that's imperfect, but decent enough that I'm not going to muck with it much more. That said, I will still take feedback into consideration in a more general sense as I work on the next game. 

Also, I understand if you don't want to take the time to do so, but Daze specifically has been discussed quite a lot here, so if you want to have a better understanding of my thinking on it, feel free to skim those discussions. In short though, the point of the move is to be somewhat frustrating, because otherwise it can become too easy to steamroller the enemies. It's intended to add a degree of unpredictability to the fights, while not being SO infuriating that it makes the game unplayable. 

"But it's unfair!"

I mean yes, the game is unfair, to some extent. That's the whole idea. Not to the point of devolving into chaos or unplayability, but a LITTLE chaos is intentional.

Also, congratulations on getting past the ambush.

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honestly the move is less "unfair and unpredictable" and more of an "i'm going to annoyingly and forcibly handicap you to briefly delay you from winning a fight you were going to win anyway". the move isn't even really unpredictable as from what i've experienced it'll always happen on round two if it is going to trigger at all. i say it should be nerfed because (from what i've seen so far) it's the only enemy attack that can just straight up ignore your turn of the combat which is just all around annoying. and winning the ambush isn't really congratulatory when i had to restart the game a full 5 times before i got the win so from my pov it was sheer luck.

Developer(-1)

Well I will keep it in mind going forward, as I said. I play through all these mechanics myself quite a bit to make sure I'm happy with where they are, and both I and most of the other feedback I've got were fine with Daze as it was. But people obviously have different preferences. Sorry to hear about the ambush though: if you really feel it was JUST luck, then you may not have fully "got" the basics of how battles work in the game, which might be contributing to your frustration as well. But it is normal that some of the bigger fights will require a few attempts, just usually, hopefully, not that many.

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my struggling with that ambush has nothing to do with my issues with daze, the reason it took luck was because i was trying to save resources for that stupid hyena with the pup clicker. if i had known he could kill you in two turns i wouldn't have.  

Developer (2 edits)

Fair enough, although the ambush fight obviously isn't designed with that in mind, as people wouldn't have pre-knowledge of the Mahir fight ahead of time. I will often make very hard fights, but very rarely ones that are actually impossible, and the resources to deal with them should always be fairly close at hand. As long as you're not being wasteful with items, they should rarely be an issue: if you find yourself needing an absurd amount of items for a fight, you're probably missing something strategy-wise, as you were with the Mahir fight.

Also, while it doesn't hurt my feelings or anything, I think you misunderstand the purpose of the downvote. It's not for saying "I disagree", it's for signalling spam and overtly abusive content. It's basically a way of saying "fuck you." And if that's how you feel, fair enough, but it's odd to try to have a conversation with someone while also aggressively giving them the middle finger over and over.

(+1)

well the first time you heavily misconstrued my criticism of daze as whining about it being "unfair" and then you tried saying that  a different struggle i had was directly tied to why i didn't like daze while also implying that i just wasn't good enough at the game to even understand the basics of the turn based combat which is rather quite insulting. so i feel as though they are justified, the second one more so than the first.

Developer(-1)

I'm not intending to be rude in any of this, I'm sorry if it came across that way. But the reality is that a number of people (not the majority, but a number of people) have complained about that ambush for example, and in almost all cases it usually turned out that they were missing something basic: wasting items, not using the moves with the right timing, not knowing there was a heal skill you could use out of combat etc. Similarly, your trouble with the Mahir fight was, genuinely, down to you not understanding it. That's fine, it's designed to be a little difficult to "solve" to motivate players to take the jobs instead, but it is still the case that you were failing to solve it.

You're coming to me with a number of things and saying "this sucks, change it." Which is fine, and even good to some degree because often I agree, and especially over the first few months after release I was able to fine-tune a lot based on feedback. In this case I disagree, but I'm trying to give some insight into why, and some information that make make the game easier for you, rather than just saying "No." 

To be clear, being annoyed by the Daze attack is entirely reasonable, and it's somewhat down to taste whether you find it a fun extension of the "being powerless" theming, or just obnoxious. There was some debate about that after release, and I did revisit and carefully consider exactly how the mechanic was working (It's actually deliberately manually restricted, it used to go off MORE). But at this point, I'm not in a position to be reworking significant parts of the battle mechanics: most changes to GT now will be either really serious bugs and/or very simple, easy adjustments that I somehow missed.

(+1)

once again you have massively misrepresented what i've said, the only thing i have actually suggested needs changing is daze. that is the only thing i've even mentioned possibly needing change. the most i have asked for with the ambush and mahir was tips to making those fights easier, that's not asking for change at all, in fact i don't even know how you are even able to misconstrue that as me saying "this sucks, change it" that's me literally saying "i'm fucking sucking right now, can i get some help?". me saying "i need help" is nowhere near similar to saying that "something needs to be changed".

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This is just a miscommunication between you and Bitshift but I am putting my two cents here because it hurts to see Bitshift having to engage in this conversation alone.

Disclaimer, I did not read everything written because it was hard to read both of you trying to defend yourselves, but the tone of your first post "daze needs to be nerfed" screams "this sucks, change it" and not "i need help". It becomes reasonable for Bitshift to respond the way he did just because of that one line of word. The first words to convey a message, not just yours, is going to set the tone of the rest of the conversation.

Besides, I have many frustrations towards the mechanics of the game, but I loved them because I played it in a more self-inserting way. The frustration doesn't just see Mezz breaking down but it broke me down too. I think that is hella fun! I want his future game to have the same level of RNG frustrations so I can have my own "superhero mode" broken down. 

But I understand that not everyone is going to enjoy it. I didn't at first. (tangent)Its just because how I like the writing of this game that just makes me come back for more RNG beating (end of tangent). So its understandable some player will hope its not what it is and want it changed. 

My final opinion is this conversation should end. Lets put it this way: now we know you are not demanding change, thanks for making it clear. Written words are always not easy to understand unless you're some kind of master of telepathy and empathy. And I am sorry if what I decide to add here just fueled more problems to either of you. I just couldn't keep my mouth shut.

Developer

Yeah, I think this is down to the limits of text communication, because the vibe ALL of your posts have given to me is that of frustration with the game and wishing it was different. "X should be nerfed" is literally a call to make a change to game mechanics. And again, there's nothing wrong with that, I've changed many things in the game since release due to feedback. I probably won't be making major changes now, but I'm still open to hearing ideas and feedback. But your tone, along with the continued downvoting of my comments has been oddly, overly harsh. Not enough to merit a ban or anything, it's just confusing and makes communication more difficult. If you really just want help, great, I'm glad to do what I can, and I've been trying to. But why are you so hostile? If you're really just frustrated with various things you're struggling with in the game, great, I'm glad to help with that. But the way you're phrasing it comes across as personal, as a frustration or attack on ME.

Which again, I'm not offended by (though it is a little annoying), especially if it's genuinely accidental, but it has made for some very confusing reading. 

Regardless, I think we're talking past each other to some extent. I hope at least some of what I was able to offer helped to some degree though.

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I've got several ponderings! I thought they would be cool possible ideas for future chapters.

One idea I am thinking are corrupted healing items, healing items that you may (or have to) use to stay in combat, but will raise your lust/corruption/submission level or some other (fun) side effects. 

Another idea I have is like a second-wind in slut mode. If you become a professional slut (a possible implementation is like collecting all transferable accessories from each chapter which you get from slut mode), you would probably have much more control over your own lust and who can control you. So you can like, snap out of your max lust for a  limited amount of time to stay in the fight. This is possibly a difficult thing to bring together though. 

Another thing I thought would be cool with professional slut is possibly a new character that would accept and romantically love Mezz for going down that path. If Scratch is the type that won't accept a professional slut (sex worker) as a partner, there is at least some comfort left for Mezz in the end, unless Scratch is just gonna be that amazing. On the flip side, Mezz as a professional slut can have a horrifying slut mode win, that makes you wonder if you even won at all, giving the slutty players a reality check (cool idea but I legit will hate you forever for this) (well not seriously but still).

Just some fun suggestions for the future! Maybe they could come in useful and get implemented if they complement your grand scheme for the next chapters! The corrupted healing item idea is just a thing I think plays well with the emotions I felt playing your game, "punishing" poor resource management in a different way. The professional slut however is something i heard several accounts of, and have some personal experience with it ^w^

Developer(+1)

Certainly some interesting ideas. I will say that in terms of broad stuff like this, there's basically an infinite number of possibilities, so I'll probably mostly end up going with my own stuff. A lot of it isn't even planned and just presents itself as I'm working on the game. The entire hostclub in GT exists because of a store sign that was in a tile set I was using. That said, will see if an opportunity presents itself though, doing some interesting things with items especially might have some potential.

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