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Harmful Heaven, End of the World Visual Novel

A topic by Maidelen created Mar 29, 2023 Views: 1,362 Replies: 58
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Early devlog posts present illustrations, ideas and concepts that were altered or discarded . Some time has passed. The game page is up.


I've been writing and drawing a lot of stuff for a visual novel since the beginning of the year. Now, Harmful Heaven has taken a lot of shape and I'm sure I can move on to the part where I start coding the stuff in ren'py.

desi-sera

Serious, calculating and focused - Cheerful, merry and ingenuous

Sera, a silly boy who wanted to get out of his village, and Desi, a woman with a questionable past, meet on the way to the boat, the vehicle that will take them to the heaven prepared by the angels of the world. The road to the boat is chaotic and bizarre, and they can die by them.

Will Sera and Desi make it to heaven?


I want Harmful Heaven to be a small visual novel with adorable moments and conflicts where everyone shows their worst, in parallel.
Even with all your flaws and demons, what matters at the end of the day is how you deal with it and the actions you do to yourself, your friends and the world. All of that on a journey to heaven.

Features:

  • Concise length, things will always happen to keep you interested.
  • Sera and Desi use rifles to fight, you will have to use the mouse to click and shoot in battles.
  • Crazy characters that will probably make you laugh but will also scare you. They all fall into this category
  • Everything has a background: The end of the world, the angels, the world, Sera and Desi, their enemies and their friends.
  • 5 Endings of which I hope, each ending feels satisfying, especially the true one. They will be easy to get out of, this is designed to be beaten in one or two plays.

Can be your best friend

This is what angels looks like. They are like cats.

The progress I'll share here will be more technical than anything, since I've been working on this for months, but it's only now that I'm going to start coding the game. Thanks ren'py you are easy to use.

Thanks for taking the time to read. If you liked what you saw I hope you get to play Harmful Heaven. I forgot to say that it will be a free game.

Issue 2, Things seem to be going well

  • I haven't coded anything in ren'py, but what I have done is write the story again. The previous versions had a very simple and basic vision, that was supposed to be what I wanted, but its events and resolution seem very basic to me, and if I don't like it, others might not like it. This new version of the story, which at the moment has 10K words and is in the middle of the story, convinces me much more. After finishing it, comes the overall revision process, and only then I'll start coding the visual novel.
  • Harmful Heaven was conceived as the smallest and most short project I could create, the new additions to the story I had to choose very carefully not to ruin that. I think I expanded the story in a way I can handle.
  • I have added to the list tools associated with ren'py that I will be using, such as Twine to Ren'Py and Ren'Py Accessibility Add-On. One so I can write dialog better and the other for player accessibility. A bit related, while drawing the backgrounds, I decided that the black color will be much more prevalent than the white color, since white could cause discomfort and difficulty to the view.
  • I also decided to use BGM music, SE audio and music in general from Pixabay and Freesound for sound effects, and MaouDamashii and YouFulca for music.  I've known about Maou's music for years, it's awesome and I'm happy to use their material.

For the following posts I will have illustrative images, because pure text can be boring. Undoubtedly, what I have worked the most on this time is the writing, with which I am satisfied and I hope that the final result will satisfy me. The development continues.

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Issue 3, some decisions

After experimenting and testing a few things, I have decided to make some changes in how the game is played. In the first post I said that there would be a QTE mini-game that appeared regularly in the fights, now it's discarded.

Before (Up), after (Down)

I tested the QTE code, script made by Papiersam. It works and it's good. But after seeing how my visual novel would look like with QTE in practice, it made me question whether to use it or not.

I've played Fate/Extra and Tsukuhime, visual novels made by Type-Moon. It has made me question several things about how I see visual novels. The ones I've played don't have action story segments, or they do in a small dose, but these two VNs have life and death conflicts pretty regularly and I've seen how these VNs present life and death conflicts in an immersive and tense way. Music, descriptions of the situation, characters changing their reactions to the situation, unsettling music, and decisions where one is right and another leads to a death ending.

I haven't played The Murder of Sonic The Hedgehog, but I read a review that said that while they liked the VN, didn't like the minigames it had, saying that feels the developers didn't trust that the game couldn't hold up to being a visual novel.

I had the feeling that the QTE would be bad for the game, but after testing it, trying alternatives and listening to opinions about it, I have made the decision not to use QTE in the game. Their absence will be compensated by constant crucial decisions in moments of conflict and better use of text for atmosphere. I consider this a good change, but I wouldn't discard experimenting with QTE in a visual novel, but in a different game, not this one. The development continues.

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I am not well financially, and I have to balance this with my college studies. Bringing this to fruition as soon as possible would do me a lot of good so I can start my career of sorts. I thought for a while about what I could do to improve the development to the complete version of Harmful Heaven, and this is what I decided.


  • Originally Harmful Heaven was going to be a very short game, but now the expansions I've done on it made that no longer the case. The things I've added haven't been that great either, but I consider it now worth uploading a demo. Within the story of the game, the story takes place over 3 days (Actually it's 2 days, but *beep* spoilers) so I can make a demo that covers the first day of the story.

    Uploading a demo would be a very good thing: I'll have something playable that I can present, I can get opinions and feedback from those who play and the game page will circulate on Itch.io and may gain a following. I'm excited about the idea and I'm going to work harder to make the demo a reality.  (besides the full game, of course).
  • And the second most important decision is that I'm going to discard Ren'py as an engine for Harmful Heaven.

    I've been using RPG Maker since I was a kid, several iterations of the software. I've done quite a lot of stuff there, goofy stuff and none of it complete. After that, I had a phase where I was like "I must expand my horizons!" and i started experimenting with a lot of different engines. I didn't get to experiment much with them out of fear, I didn't get to do much or anything at all. The requirement of real programming and coding and scripting for even the smallest things got the better of me. The engine I stayed with of all the ones I tried was Ren'py... And for the moment I will discard it.

    In RPG Maker you can already make visual novels, but I wanted to do it in Ren'py to give me the illusion that I'm doing real programming... When what I've done is used codes from the tutorial, from scripts made by others and from reddit searches. All that to do extremely minimal and basic things. That's why I'm going to switch to a program that I know quite well, to make the development of Harmful Heaven more dynamic. It will still be a visual novel and will have no map exploration sections and no rpg elements. I switched to RPG Maker for this because I know how to use the engine, not to make Harmful Heaven an RPG.

I guess that's okay. I'm tired. Anyone is reading this? I was told that devlogs are more important to the dev than to those reading, so I would continue this thread even if no one was reading it. I'm just frustrated, but I have to keep going.

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Hello!!! idk if this will help ease your frustration, but I just read through your entire thread and i find your VN fascinating!!! it fits my taste completely!! I'm excited to play the demo :DDD i wish you good luck both with the game and with your studies :))

(+1)

Thank you for your words, it motivates me to continue with the project. I don't know what else to say, I'm glad to see such a nice message.

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It's been several days without an update, I have to write stuff and, fortunately, I bring positive news relating to the project

Making the visual novel in RPG Maker felt pretty good for the flexibility and speed of the development,  I've done several scenes of the story and did a couple of placeholders for other scenes still in development. There's still a lot of text and decision making still left to add but doing things in an engine I know well makes things much better. Thanks to Kanji the Grass for making the Visual Novel Style plugin. I can add visual novel classic stuff to the game thanks to this.

In technical terms, the development couldn't be going better. Next time I will progress enough to put 20% on the post.

A good part of this time was spent practicing my drawing as well, I've managed to make some improvements to make the characters look better than before. I think I've succeeded. If I hadn't taken the time to practice these days the final character designs would look like this: 


And instead, they will now look like this: 


If you consider that something was lost or downgraded please tell me so, I personally think it's an improvement but I could be wrong. Along the way it lost the always-surprised Desi's face, but I might add it as a reaction.
(There are more characters besides Sera and Desi, but I'm still redesigning them)

It's about time I started designing the final art for the game, I've done so many sketches and so many changes, I've come up with something that looks good to me. I hope myself and others will enjoy the final result.


(+1)

I have managed to make playable sections of Harmful Heaven at this point. It's a visual novel, so it's no great achievement, but the fact that I've made it this far means that the project is in a development that's going well.

Two people are very important in this project, Utsukushi Hana and Eurobeatlover, I love them very much. They are very aware of the work and progress I make, I'm still in charge of the design, art and writing but I show everything to them, having points of view of people who know about those things (One is good at drawing and the other at writing) is important, the final Harmful Heaven would be a lower quality thing if it wasn't for them. (Nothing assures me that the actual Harmful Heaven could be bad too, I better be quiet and keep working on it).

Talking about Harmful Heaven as a complete game, there are things that have changed from when I started developing this in January of this year, here a small list of things that were going but not anymore.

  • The two protagonists were going to be devoid of feelings. They were not going to be hired killers, but because of the story taking place in the apocalypse, they were going to kill anything they came across, without hesitation. It's much different now, but will the current Sera and Desi be forced to kill in the current storyline?
  •  Much less gentleness, and kindness. I don't know how to say it, now and before in the story there were going to be deaths, tragedies and despair, but before it was in a dry, half sarcastic way. When the story was much simpler and shorter it looked good I think, but not now. I like the current tone much better.
  • In the first post I said there were going to be 5 endings.... With all the changes made to the story, none of the 4/5 endings can no longer be integrated into the current version. Writing one more time I could come up with replacements for the new storyline, but it's a shame. Maybe I could put those discarded endings as bonus scenes.

I was thinking about creating a reddit account to upload clips of the game in some rpg maker subreddit, because I've seen how games get to win people that way, but I don't know, maybe it's not that big of a deal and what I post in itch.io is enough.

For the next posts I will be more open about characters and story segments. I've analyzed it and it won't be that big of a deal to introduce the important characters. And maybe by telling elements of the story I can make it more interesting. Things are going well, very good.

I don't know what profile picture to put on my profile that isn't a dog or a cat.

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I have made a short introduction to the story of Harmful Heaven.


How was it? I want to create interest in the story so I decided to start with this. How do you think the story will go based on this?

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The development these days has been a collision of feelings, bad and good. I think it would be good to start passing screenshots of the game. The first screenshots of the game. The first language of the game is Spanish, but as soon as I finish the script in-game I will translate it to English. For now, I will translate the screenshots with text below them. I will talk about the experience in a separate post.

Start - Continue - Credits - Configurations


"Inevitably, the bombs began to fall." "Everyone decided to act to survive" "A little journey to heaven has started."


"... I have my rifle and my magic scarf, I should be fine."



"Why would you scare me? You look stupid."

"On your way to the boat, wanderers?" "I'm sure you been waiting for this famous ride." "Get in! We're going straight to the boat!"

Those screenshots screams "videogame in development", don't they? Only the sprites are final. The text box, the colors, the font, the main menu and things like that are still pending. Wow, saying it like that sounds like a lot, well yes it is a lot. Not to mention the lack of music and few sound effects.

Really, if developing in RPG Maker is already difficult for me, using an engine that requires programming would finish me. It's partly because I'm making a visual novel, which is different from a Top-Down, but even if it's not impossible, it's exhausting. But it's a matter of planning my work time better and getting used to it, so it won't be so difficult little by little.

I have had periods of reflection on many things, mainly my situation and all that entails what I am doing and how I am. It is hard and overwhelming, but part of being adults is knowing how to balance things to face situations like this in the best possible way, so I will definitely continue, and I will complete this project, and many others. Actually my outburst was going to be much more long-winded but since I already did it mentally I don't think it's necessary.

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The full script is nearing completion. After a lot of thinking about the final stretch of the story and discussion with Eurobeatlover and Utsukushi Hana, I have finally decided on the final sequence of events for Harmful Heaven. I mean, the ending and epilogue were already decided a long time ago, but what was missing were the exact things that would happen up to that point. I think it turned out to be something interesting. With that crossed off the list, the script would be complete and what would be left would be the game itself.

Here are some small illustrations of the game parts



And look at these three individuals


Very apocalyptic

Edit: Ok uh the quality manager/editor/friend Eurobeatlover tells me that presenting these illustrations in this post was a bad idea. You see, these dummies will be in only one scene and I didn't give it the effort as I would do with important characters, and it told me that posting them would give the impression that this is the peak of my illustrator skills (very bad). I mean, I'm very novice but, not like that either. So, that. Sorry.

I don't know if it's Firefox or my pc or both, but the browser really crashes lately with anything. I've already had to rewrite what I wanted to post three times. From now on I will do my itch.io-post things writing in notepad++ 
RPG Maker MV and Aseprite are available on linux thanks to steam, the only thing that really prevents me from trying some linux distribution is the fact that I don't have the disk space to have both OS, because I don't think I will be able to go straight to linux. Also, dowload the alternative versions of my software for Linux. Maybe, when I start earning some money, I will buy a new hard disk to have more space / replace the one I have that is too old and at any moment it will break down. My old computer can no longer handle all the whims of windows 10 little by little.
God, technology is a stressful thing if you don't have the money.

In the end, however, the development continues. And I think this is a bad time to say it, but thanks to the RPG Maker MV export facility, the game will be also on linux.

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Entiendo lo de las ilustraciones. No se preocupes por eso, siempre se aprende con las acciones. Ahora bien, en general tengo que admitir que la premisa de la historia al comienzo es suficientemente atractiva por sí misma. Lo único que le invito a replantearse -tomando en consideración opiniones externas- el cómo hacer que esa misma seducción aplique a las visuales del juego. No soy experto en el área pero de igual forma le sugiero tomar referencias de estilos similares y asi consiga una consistencia a la cual aferrarse.

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My not-really-editors have commented on how my illustrations are inconsistent. I have to assume this as a problem. Thanks for the comment, I didn't reply to you immediately because I was busy getting emotional about someone commenting in my work. My references are like a juice of many fruits blended in a single glass, but I'd better decide on something concrete to reference. Thanks to the feedback.

I say this without any disrespect, but I think you used a translator to speak to me in my first language. It's not necessary, I understand and write English decently, but the intent is appreciated!

Edit: I'm glad to read that the initial premise of the story is something interesting. Thanks for that too

Nah, my spanish is native. Sometimes I just forget in what language I'm talking to. And my natural driven expressionism it's also particular and strange by its own as you may see.

60 days since I created this post. The simple decision to create this devlog represented an important step for me. This is the furthest I have come with any project I have ever tried to complete, I am happy and saddened at the same time.

According to the modification date of the .txt of the first Harmful Heaven writeup, the project was technically born on January 25, 2023. And now, we are just about halfway through the year. I feel good that I've been so consistent, but.... God, I feel like a failure looking back at all the previous things I failed to complete. I'm hoping that Harmful Heaven will be the thing that breaks this cycle that I've had since I've been trying to do these things since I was a kid.

Harmful Heaven is the most consistent and playable game I've made so far. Mainly because the gameplay of the game consists of reading. But... It's still a piece of playable software that's telling a story, one in development, but when I test to see if everything is working right, I feel like the game is... A game, i can play it and say "yes, it's in development, but it's definitely a game." I don't have words to express how that makes me happy.

Seeing the career of other developers, maybe I will be more professional and efficient if I start drinking beer. I'm 18 so I can do that, I'm sure I'll be cool and successful like ZUN if I start drinking a lot of beer.... Just kidding, it would be a huge expense.

A song from an anime I did not see was decisive in determining the tone and direction of the story of Harmful Heaven. Was this one: Jounetsu ni Tsuite Katarubeki ni, san no Shinjitsu.


I may do English lyrics later. "We rolled ourselves to fate, but miracles are awakening." Those kinds of phrases have the song. I like to think it's Sera who sings the song, I think it suits him.

Things seem to be going well. Still, I'd like to somehow reduce my entertainment time, but I can't lie to myself. I have to spend at least 1 hour playing some game or reading some manga. I have to learn to discipline myself and be stricter with myself.

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Nice devlog. A few thoughts.

Please reconsider the names. Sera is a female name and Desi, well, google it. If you insist, better maybe make it nicknames, like for Désirée and Seraph.

The game is whatever you want it to be. The engine is only a tool to make it easier to program. That said, if you do not want a kinetic novel, mini games and sandbox are good to break away from that. Illusion of choice vn with different ending in name only, are still kinetic, as far as I am concerend. As for vn, you know best if you want to have game play or just a branching story to read. Both have their fans.

Please be aware that this is a hobby. You can dream of becoming so successful that you can live from your hobby, of course, but indie dev is actually a synonym for unemployed (or overconfident boastful amateur with delusions about own skill and own game quality). You should still aim for a day job.

You can see the page view for topics and compare to other devlogs. Many of your views will stem from the same people though. And this section of the community is kinda deprecated as explained in the sticky.

I do not know how translator friendly rpg maker is. But if you hardcode the game in non-english, well, .... And if you do write wihtout translator in comments your engrish is good enough to write the game in that. But this is the opinion of a non native english speaker here ;-)

The problem with getting exposure is that you get exposure. People will say nice things, people will say not so nice things. Some only for the lulz. It is hard to see the valid criticism behind the insults. Your art so far sucks. That was not nice of me to say, but it is true. For me it looks not like pixel art, but like pixels drawn by a kid. If this is intentional, well, ok, can be done, but is hard to pull off. Art is a skill and takes lots of practise to look good. And without classes in that, it might take even longer. Also, even if you had a refined art style, people might just not like it, as it is a matter of personal taste. I do not like most pixel art in general for example. I think your chibis are good.

Oh, and your approach looks already more professional than most of the so called indie devs here. I wish you luck and fun with your hobby.

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Seeing what you commented on the topic I did made me want you to take a look at my devlog and comment. What a thing.

If Translator++ (software for editing and translating text from RPG Maker games) has a replace text style option, I will change them to Désirée and Seraph. I would refuse if Sera and Desi were names with special meanings, but the truth is that I decided them quickly and without thinking too much when I had this story as a thing of many jokes and little seriousness. Besides, Désirée and Seraph sound better.

Thanks for the comment about the game can be whatever I want, some time ago I decided definitively what I was going to do and I have already made some sections of the story already playable and I like the way they were/are.

After my first year in this,I understood that I am not going to make a living out of this. I don't think so at all, I don't think it's possible with my capabilities. But it's my fault with using "successful" ambiguously, what I want is to have a little reputation with a niche audience that is willing to support me so that I can continue making games. That's the most I can aspire to, and I think it's realistic to pursue that. My fault also for mentioning ZUN he's in another very high league.

Your art so far sucks. That was not nice of me to say, but it is true.

Uh, that hurt, but I guess I have to prepare myself to read it quite a few times. I'm not following the rules of a particular style, I don't think it's pixel art as such either. The way I draw is a result of ignoring what I don't like about a style and just sticking with what I like. I suppose I could improve if I apply myself more to this to make it more convincing.

your approach looks already more professional than most of the so called indie devs here.

Do you really think so? Thank you thank you, I feel like the best thing anyone can say to me on this is that I'm being professional. Although I think you can give me a compliment without disparaging other users.

Thanks for stopping by and taking your time to comment.

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Oh, you can keep the names as they were. It just bothers nitpickers like me, if never an hint of an explanation is given. And boys having a girls name and girls having a non-name is something to stumble over.

The boy could have been made fun for the angelic sounding name and thus only uses a short form. Or since it is postapocalpytic. People usually have better things to do than running around with their passports. They have no last names eithers, after all. So an introduction could be like:

Your name is what? That is not a name. - Duhhh. It is not my real name, I chose it myself! It is a new world, didn't you notice?

Or. That is an odd name for a boy. - That is because it is a nickname, doofus.

Whatever you like.  Even subtle as one of the kids carrying a school bag with a name tag on it that spells the full name.   But if you do nothing, I have to assume it is a world were these types of names are normal. Or worse, I could misinterpred the gender of your toons. All of this could of course be intentional. Like foreshadowing with the whole angel topics.

Names in such a setting can be anything. Including origin places, occupations or making fun of a activity the character did. In postapocalyptic, you might be called Rpg or Pixels, if you talk about your preapocalyptic activities.

Since it is your hobby, it should make fun to you foremost. There are just too many indie devs. Even if you make a good game, have an inviting game page, a free game, stunning social media ... you still have hundreds or rather thousands of people that are the same. I could play a new vn every day, and never accidentally stumble over yours. And I do have a backlog of literally hundreds of games to play. Maybe I should comment less and play more ;-)

Regarding your art style. Yes, I did say that intentionally, of course. But also because in my opinion it is like that. It is just not appealing to me (but not appaling either...) There are not many objective criteria to look at art. I can give an example of an evolving art style. There is a webcomic, questionable content. It runs 20 years now and the artist is self taught. You can look at the style evolving by looking every 100 pages or so. (he has over 5000 now). Or you might know the anime Shin Chan as another example. That one looks not quite like other anime...

Oh and it is pixel art to me. It is not very artsy and not the usual kind, yes, but you draw in low resolution, so I can see the pixels and stair case effects. The style is drawing-like-a-kid. And in this day and age, if I can see the pixels, it is intentional. (ok, maybe it is just low resolution art and not pixel art, report me to art police, if you must)

As you might have noticed, i am a forum lurker. So I do see lots of topics by ... "aspiring" developers. It was not a compliment for compliments sake, of course you are free to see it like that. As you are free to take offense by people not liking your game or your art. But you go at it without the attitude, that i observe so often. You know your current limitations and seem to have a plan. Compared to those others you are professional and they ... are not. I diss them because they project this delusional attitude: I made half a line of code and managed to press export on a game engine, thus I am a developer; why is no one playing (buying) my game. Seriously. If you dig in the forum you see lots of such threads. And if you take a look at the game, you see the why in the first seconds and question the meaning of the term indie game developer. Maybe they think it is (indie game) (developer). While I see it as (indie) (game developer). 

(+2)

I've mentioned several things about Sera (Seraph) and Desi (Désirée), which is normal because they are the main characters of the game, but what other important characters are on the list? A few more, here they go, will be introduced for the first time.


This is Boum. Since the apocalypse began, he uses his explosive handling skills to attack others and try to get through the days. He is someone relaxed and cheerful, but tries not to be so in the current situation.


Impelia. At some point in her life she abandoned her studies to focus on publish books. She did fairly alright, but her stories are famous. She has a special relationship with the angels, it will be decisive in the story.


Aragrace and her daughter Ari. The mother is the leader of the group of funny and dangerous people who adore the angels. They help the people they meet around. They believe that because they adore the angels, when they die they will all go to heaven.


Who is she? She will appear somewhat late in the story, but she will be integrated in a shocking way. The red belt she wears is a thing that people in the Harmful Heaven world see and have a heart attack.

The development continues, it's going well. Let's see if I make some important progress this weekend.

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Hah! You are doing the nameing thing I mentioned. Boum. I think we can be sure that this is not his birth name ;-)

I like the fake halo.

The Harmful Heaven page is up, in order for the game to gain traction on the platform. Still no screenshots, or banner, or a decent cover, but will have them eventually.


I've been working on the design, I haven't had many problems. Once I identified the procedure to make the visual novel in the engine, I've advanced without much trouble.

Electrical problems have been hitting hard where I live. What a pain. Between that and fatigue and everything else it's a stressful thing.

The development continues.

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We all can't wait for the game to be released 😄

I don't know how much personal stuff I can tell in a devlog, but since it's part of the development process it counts, right? In any case, don't read this if you are only interested in the product, please.

Here there should be a paragraph talking a bit about my feelings about some things on the internet. That paragraph I deleted and rewrote for several hours already.

I just don't know how to express myself. The more I want to say something, the more I have no idea how to say it. I'm stupid and an idiot, I confirm it every day (it's not an insult to myself, it's a trait I find hard to accept) so I never know when something I think is right is actually wrong.  If it wasn't for the support of my most valued friends, I wouldn't find myself here with the "courage" (running a public project, what courage that takes) to run a devlog of a serious project.

 I feel like I'm going to die every time I want to express something minimally personal, when I would like to do it at least once in a while so as not to be perceived as a robot. But it's that when I try not to be someone who talks like an artificial intelligence I'm someone very unbearable and insufferable. I just don't know how to deal with it, and worse still that it was bad for me to try to do that when I was a minor, now that I'm an adult + trying to pull this whole thing off, it will be even less tolerated.

At least I can try here. On itch.io not many people hang out, much less their forums and much less this section. I can leave my stuff a bit over here. I will indicate when I want to talk about something personal that is not so much related to Harmful Heaven but has to do with how i feel. I have a long way to go.

It got dark before I knew it when I finished writing this. I feel now that it was a waste of time. I'll compensate by staying up late and sleeping in at 6 AM. I have to finish this and I have to finish it right.

(+2)
I'm stupid and an idiot

That is doubtful. I think you overthink too much. Real stupid people and idiots do usually not realize their condition. which makes them so obnoxious.

so I never know when something I think is right is actually wrong

Read about  formal arguments. For some stuff you can deduce what is right by  following logic. And if you find that what you thought was true derived by faulty logic  or faulty premises   you will have answers too. But for some stuff it  cannot be done. Anything that boils down to matters of taste. Or stuff that is not capable of being true or false. But it also can help if you know for yourself why you think something is right or wrong.

At the very least you might get a buffer against snake oil merchants. Be they political or ideological.  If all they have is faulty formal arguments, they are most likely very wrong. People are harder. Because people lie. A lot. Some even do it on purpose.

The most common "lie" here on itch is, that people think they are game developers. This is more exagerration than lie, but it is the self publishing thing. Are self published writers really writers? Are youtubers actors and directors? Technically, maybe. But there is a difference between amateur and professional. But who would honestly call themselves an amateur game developer ;-)

it will be even less tolerated

Most adults are insufferable in their idiosyncracies. Just look at me and my overly long texts.   And the ones you suffer, you just did not look hard enough or just do not care anymore, so you suffer them in silence. The problem with the internet is, that people have lower barriers to be inpolite.  and some are just mean for the lulz.

The pandemic exposed lots of disturbing  people. You would never have considered them  to be  like that. But in happy sunshine times, you do not see how people really are. The amount of stupidity is frighteningly high among "adults".

I want to talk about something personal that is not so much related to Harmful Heaven

That is not advised. You can of course set up a blog or something  and link to it on your profile and even game page. Which would give you even more freedom, because a lot of things are out of place in the community  here.

If you have thoughts about certain topics, you should search for forums dealing with those topics to exchange with like minded people. The community here is for indie and hobby games. Talking about other stuff is rather discouraged and people might react alienated or not at all.  If google fails you, look at reddit. There is a subreddit for just about anyhting.

The creative expression of choice here, is of course, making a game about it.

But tl;dr, Do not listen too closely    to strangers on the internet.

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Stumbled into this comment and wow ! I keep seeing very in depth / interesting comments written by you whenever I lurk myself. . I find your take on indie devs interesting ! I think a lot of people refuse to make a comparison between industry excellency and amateur creations, it's a cognitive gap . I know for sure that I am actively learning and building skills , some of my concepts were not up to par with the new game I'm working on. I have criticism for the game I had completed . I think openness to constructive criticism causes rapid growth and for some reason people online have grown very intolerant to it -mind you I say ~constructive~ criticism specifically :'-D- . . You're very honest and straightforward, I would go to you for opinion honestly ! 

Why, thankyou there.   It is rare that someone reads what I write. Like seriously.  Most shy away from the long text. It is always better in your own head, and if you can type almost as fast as you can speak, texts tend to get long. Too long for comment sections.

I learned arguing in school and what no one prepared me for, was, that the internet has a use for this.  But so many people use fake arguments and unsound logic. That led me to the lists of fallacies you can read on wikipedia and  elsewhere. People  fail to think. It is not that they are stupid, but they literally lack the knowledge how to. And how to  spot people talking out of their ... well, let's just say, I like to think about stuff and present my opinions in a more reasoned manner. They are still opinions of course, but someone taught me a while ago that it is important to be able to reason your doing.  (It was a bureacrat that  had some leeway in makeing decisions, so he likes to  reason it, to distinguish it from arbitrary or random decisions.)

For game design that would translate to things like, I make my game in an engine that I can use so I can make progress faster.  Or my protagonist is a teenager, in the hopes that teenagers can relate to him.

And for me that is why I can say confidently that most game devs are hobby enthusiasts, even if they claim or wish otherwise. Because I can point to analoguos situation in all creative arts as the internet made it quite easy to self publish. A blessing and a curse.

The huge opportunity and advantage is, that you do not have to cater to a publisher. You can do you.

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I do read it and take notes on occasion if it’s noteworthy ! You have good takes on optimization which is an area I want to strengthen more, I just removed grid maps from my game to improve optimization. I also learned the concept of logical fallacies somewhere along the line and recognized the awareness of such in your commentary. Sometimes your honesty is a bit terrifying (not on you, sometimes I’m sensitive which is not your problem, or anyone else’s! I won’t complain about criticism I view as too harsh, I will take it and do better. I prefer constructive criticism however as blatant criticism leaves me no guidance on how something could be done better.) Currently I’m working on a game and I found weak points, some critical to the gameplay. The map design was terrible and unoptimized, which lead me to studying level design and game environment design from well done pieces from the time. Now, the map is looking incredibly better and is significantly more fun to play in -I haven’t showed much yet, just a WIP in devlogs.- But it’s a critical eye that causes growth. There’s people in my devlogs that brought up an excellent concern regarding some people having too many post processing effects, which I agreed with and was glad they brought that up. 

Long post aside, the point is people like you are essential to growth in those willing to listen !

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Your logic and your way of expressing yourself really make me reflect and question things. Positively.

I call myself a stupid idiot because I make so many stupid mistakes that other people wouldn't make in environments like college, home or with my friends. But what you say makes sense. I still think it's a trait to get used to, but I've also met dumb people who don't know they're dumb and they're the worst.

Yes, you are absolutely right that Itch.io is not a casual forum for socializing, I mean, there is socializing but on other lines. I can leave the talking about personal stuff for other places, it's just that I'm afraid that people will perceive me as a robot because of how I've shown myself so far. But, there are better ways to say things about yourself in a light and brief way instead of making your devlog of your project a personal blog.

Um, I use reddit a lot recently to visit posts from a franchise that is very complicated. But I wouldn't want to make an account because of the reputation it has (I've never, ever read the word 'redditor' in a positive tone) but I can look for alternatives. With the whole twitter thing dying it's become popular something called Mastodon which looks interesting. anyway! The point is to look for other places to express things better.

I will try to faithfully follow the advice of "Do not listen too closely to strangers on the internet." but adding "unless what they say makes sense" like the things you said. Sorry if I didn't answer everything but I read your posts repeatedly to catch everything 100%. Thank you for advising me.

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I call myself a stupid idiot because I make so many stupid mistakes that other people wouldn't make in environments like college, home or with my friends

You are biased. You know about your own mistakes. But you often do not know about the mistakes other people make. Like painting a wall. You do see the errors you made, the paint splashes, the place where you had to repair the wall, the place where  you had to paint twice because of  sloppy  painting or dark colors on the wall.  All the stuff most others would not notice or deem important.    While I can of course not tell you how stupid you really are, I do can tell you that  phenomenons like this are real. They go hand in hand with stuff like confirmation bias and even overconfidence like the  Dunning-Kruger effect. (That could be   me trash talking game devs, because I think, I could do it better ;-)

Regarding the robot thing ... gaming was once nerd territory... ;-)

Good to see that you already picked up one of the fundamental rules of sound arguments. It does not matter who says something. It could be proverbial  villain or the town idiot. If premise is true and logic is sound, argument is sound.

(Reddit is a swamp. It more or less  is a mirror of the internet users. The good and the bad. And you can guess what side gets more coverage outside of reddit. But it might become a self fulfilling prophecy. If enough people avoid reddit because of bad reputation, only the people going there for the bad reputation will be there. Be sure not to give real personal infos there. Or anyhwere for that matter.)

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This hit close to home ! I am terribly nervous whenever I post , publishing a game about my emotions and experiences was absolutely horrifying . . I think you're stuck in your own head here, your thoughts seem to be racing from what I read . . Sometimes it's best to step away for a bit and just process the world around you to silence the aggressors in your head . Make sure to take breaks, you don't deserve the torment you're putting yourself through . D= Personally I love hearing from you ! You do make very well thought out posts albeit you might be thinking too hard on them. I'm hoping you feel better and do something refreshing to get out of this self destructive mindset, you deserve better ! <3

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Thank you for your words, they make me feel better. I can be more idle from time to time so I don't get saturated with what I do. It's just that I feel this is something I have to do (it IS something I have to do) and I have to be disciplined if I want to get it right, since lack of discipline is one of my biggest flaws. But, everything in moderation. Thanks for your kindness.

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I’m very glad I could be of any help, I’ve been in your position countless times . . You’re too kind to be enduring this without someone telling you it’ll be okay and you’re doing just fine ! Keep going, you’ll develop more skills as time goes on. Being that honest online is terrifying, I don’t think I could even do that ! :O

Things continue to go well for the project. I wanted to post when I've already completed the script but it's been days since I've updated this post.

The feeling is getting stronger and stronger that this will be the first job I will complete. The characters I created didn't remain as mere sketches, they received their respective final designs, in-game sprites, dialogues they say, stories for each one, etc. This is the farthest I have ever gone. Right now I just have to get on with it.

I've messed around with Translator ++ and have more or less formulated the way I will translate the game into English. I promise that the English text will be of the same quality as the one I'm writing these lines with, I don't promise it will be professional - it will be in a future where I pay a translator who does a much better job than the one I'm going to do. That future is not near.

Posts ago I mentioned that Harmful Heaven was going to have a demo... Eurobeatlover made a statement about it, saying that I myself said that the game would last hopefully only 1 hour, and to release a demo of it would be very silly because of that, and so that's it, the game will be released in full.

Although extending myself with the "complete"... I was surprised by all the twists and turns the story took to get to what it is. It's a story of the end of the world, and, without going into too much detail, it has a happy ending...
I feel like I'm going to disappoint a lot of people with that. Maybe, just maybe, when I have stable conditions (a new hard drive, a little more stability in general) I'd like to take an alternate route that consists of using all the ideas/elements/side things that are considered "sad end of the world game" and turn them into the focus, in a story that leads to a bad ending for reflection. It won't be soon, not even when I complete the game, but it's something I could give myself as a compliment to myself like "congratulations for completing your first game, let's make an alternative story to celebrate".

...

WHY AM I THINKING ABOUT THAT?!? The game is not even 50% complete!!!! Focus on the main thing!!!! Focus on the main thing!!!!

Since almost everything I consume is digital, I would like to make my own low quality custom cover art for fun. Here, Harmful Heaven in physical format.


The development continues.

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Whatever you do to write your English in comments, it is better English than I encounter in most games here. Including paid games.    While I might not be the best to judge, since  English is not my native language, I do see the mistakes, engrish and oddities in games (and comments).

All your base are belong to us! (That meme is older than you  ;-)

The script of Harmful Heaven reached its end.

I have to correct it, fix what is wrong, improve the things that can be improved, finally edit the text to integrate it into the videogame. But it has a development and an ending, it has. At least in the quality of a prototype.

I have not stopped celebrating this personally, it is for me a major achievement. I wanted to share it with Eurobeatlover, but he spends more time nagging me for writing this nonstop from late at night until the early hours of the morning. He's worried that I'm going the route of a developer who puts his health below work. I will try not to do this again. But it's just that this for me was something special, I've written thousands of stories and this is the only one I've managed to write to the end. It's been 6 months since I started writing the various drafts of Harmful Heaven, and today I have given it a definitive end after so many.

I am so happy and proud of myself. I haven't updated this thread because I wanted the next post to be me announcing this.

The development continues, with more energy than ever.

The character sketching phase has been finished for a while, and soon the story writting phase will be finished as well. It won't be long before I start working only on the engine and the game itself. I have to make the preparations.

Originally Harmful Heaven was going to last only one day, its story. Then it was extended to 2 and it was for a long time, but Eurobeatlover told me "how do you want to make the audience feel the game's friendships are organic if they all met in 2 days" and now the story lasts 27 days. That is to say, the end of the world starts 3 days and by the time Sera and Dess decide to cooperate giving beginning to the story 3 days have passed.



The idea is that every time a day starts, this screen representing characters doing something will be shown. Sometimes they will be the main characters, other times they will be other characters that were left out of the focus but not to leave so much in the air what happened to them. Accompanied by three squares with small icons representing the characters, plus the remaining days to the "Day of the final bomb".

After revising the script and leaving it in a non-prototype state, I will make the scenes in the engine. This is really going well, even if the final game ends up being somewhat mediocre, I'll be able to say that I made my first complete game. I have to continue.

I've already made the corrections to the first segment and Eurbeatlover read it. I point out a few problems, all can be fixed with 2nd correction while introducing it into the game. Except one, which is cringe. He said the text is cringe. He also said that months ago when he read an early version of Harmful Heaven and he said it again now. I don't think I can do anything to make the text not cringe at this point, it will be for the next one to avoid making it cringe.

Also, I'm working extra hard to bring a surprise... It's not a big deal so I won't give too many details, but there's an interesting little thing coming.

I've created a mastodon account, I'll comment on things there from time to time. I have also been considering creating a Twitter account, but... The reason I haven't done that and instead got a mastodon is because I've only seen bad things about Twitter, but it's just that various creatives use it and are doing well, using it occasionally and in moderation. I don't know.

Anyway, not so many problems at the moment. Work has been friendly, it's scaring me a little bit how things are going well actually.
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The main story of Harmful Heaven has been revised and corrected, and a second correction is planned as it is integrated into the game as such. I don't know much about videogame versions, you could say that the game is in a 0.1 state and the script is in its 1.0 verion, so the project is in the middle? I'm going to think so then, it's a visual novel so I think it's okay to look at it that way.

Eurobeatlover thinks that even with its problems, it's a decent story that a number of people might like. Thank you very much, you've not stopped supporting the quality of the story from the beginning. I hope the story is even a little better when it's in the game itself. Definitely!

It would be interesting if a story/script could be treated like a video game, in the sense that it makes sense to present a changelog of changes with each update. So like, you test 1.0 and over time you experience each update that comes out, as if it were Minecraft or Terraria.

I'm going to try something.

Harmful Heaven - Harmful Route 1.0 changelog

  • - Added 2 endings. One good and one bad.
    - Removed extra flashback at the end of the story.
  • - Changed 'King Red' to 'Sir Crimson'..
  • - Added more screen time to a character that a beta reader likes.
  • - Added lyrics to a song that doesn't exist at the end.
  • - Added tragedy at the end.
  • - Ending where everyone is happy removed (now only several are happy.)

That doesn't work.

From here on I will work more and more on the game itself. It's curious that this is the last post on this page because the project is in the middle. Harmful Heaven will be a reality soon!

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