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Lets talk about a content/age rating system for itch.io

A topic by leafo created Jul 02, 2018 Views: 17,184 Replies: 119
Viewing posts 28 to 47 of 61 · Next page · Previous page · First page · Last page
(+4)

What about a system like AO3 (Archive Of Our Own), where the content alerts are tags, and "Creator Chooses Not to Use Content Warnings" is an option? That would be backwards-compatible, for the current database, where creators could then go in and update records. The feasibility of this does of course depend on how your database is set up.

AO3 also by default has a "Hey, might have adult content!" warning page that pops up before you can even access fanfic not specifically marked as okay, unless you have specifically set that it's okay.

Moderator(+4)

Which reminds me that I recently joined Dreamwidth, which also has an interesting system. Namely, there are three levels:

  • no age restriction;
  • viewer discretion advised;
  • age 18+;

and then there's a freeform text field "reason for age restriction". So you get the benefits of predefined categories combined with descriptive content warnings. It does raise the obvious question of where to draw the lines, but it's an approach to consider.

(+2)

I was hoping someone would have brought this up! Love AO3's system to bits.

(+1)

Would love to hear some updated feedback from Leafo on this.  Is this going to be done?  Can we get a blog about this?

(+1)

Hiya! I really love the content tags idea that lots of people have been bringing up (especially the added suggested tags for seizure and trigger warnings!). And I believe that tagging your content should be a mandatory step for devs when creating a game page, not an option in a sub-menu somewhere--that way there's less chance of mistakes being made. My favorite way to implement this which was mentioned a couple times were some simple buttons that the devs click on with the option to specify a little more about each one. 

I also think that the categorization of games into the broader three groups - Everyone, Mature Audiences, and Adults--is much, much better than specific age ranges. But I don't know if that should be determined by the devs or the site--maybe, depending on what developers select in their content tags, itch.io "recommends" a category, but creators can override it?

Lastly, my biggest concern as a creator is what to do if, for some horrible reason, a group uses the flagging system for miscategorizing to try and harrass a developer or try to get their game taken down. I'm not as worried on such a progressive and considerate place like itch.io, but I've seen it used before on creators on other platforms, so, y'know, it's on my mind!

(+3)

The report system goes to the people for review it is not a robot job like steam or youtube does.

(+1)

Anyone who needs 'trigger warnings' is not adult enough to be on the internet without the supervision of another non-triggered standard actual adult.

Life sucks, get a helmet.  :P

Moderator(+2)

You've said that before. Can you please drop it? People have been complaining. Staff has decided to take no action, but that was the first time.

On a personal note, if you think adults can't be triggered, you must be very, very young and with an untroubled life. No offense.

(2 edits) (+1)

Mod is gonna mod me.  Better not.  I'll pastebin it from my Discord if anyone is interested.
Congrats mod, you have succeeded in censoring my free expression.  Have a cookie.

Moderator(+2)

There are three problems with what you said:

  1. I already pointed out you're not in trouble. It was a polite request. You on the other hand are being rude and disrespectful.
  2. "Censorship" doesn't mean what you think it means. Itch is a private venture. If our admins did decide to take measures against you (which, again, they haven't), they'd be entirely within their right to do so.
  3. Yelling "censorship" the moment someone asks you nicely not to say certain things is a tactic most commonly associated with a kind of people you really, really don't want to be associated with.

Please reconsider.

(+2)

I'd like to add that I think that the "Everyone, Mature, Adults Only" distinction is a good idea that I've seen work on other sites, and that I think the middle ground of "mature" would be particularly nice for my current projects. The current two settings—"acceptable to absolutely everyone" or "so adult this game is hidden from normal browsing"—are a bit extreme, and I think there are a lot of works that hit a middle ground.

As for other types of content warnings… a lot of ideas have been thrown around, but I think simply lifting the 10 tag limit would satisfy the vast majority of use cases with a feature the site already has. I imagine the current limitation was instated largely to prevent tag spamming, but I think people here have presented use cases for more detailed metadata that are compelling enough that they may outweigh the moderation headache.

In addition, I think the ad hoc nature of tags is better suited for a job like this than something more organized and curated. I imagine that the types of content warnings people could potentially use are varied enough that attempting to make a set list of them would be an exercise in futility, particularly with adult content. 

I do think there should be leeway for individual developer judgment with this, though. For example, while in terms of age ratings, Doki Doki Literature Club should likely be required to at least be marked "mature," I do not believe the developers of it should be subject to disciplinary action for saying "this game is not suitable for children or those who are easily disturbed" instead of something more specific. I'm not sure if this is even remotely in the cards, but it does seem like whether something like this could happen is very dependent on the details of how content warnings are implemented and moderated.

(+1)

You could have something slightly granular: what I'm immediatly picturing is something like scrollbars for each area of content. For example some words might have a great deal of sexual content, while other may only be mature in terms of violence. In this approach, the one who pick the content can figure out whether it works for them based on the severity of any given factor.

Sources of inspiration: Interestingly enough, privacyfeatures as a firefox addon. You can toggle different features on and off to suit your needs. This is something I'm envisioning for ratings systems.

(2 edits) (+2)

Age ratings are really complex, because it changes from country to country.

While partially nudity may give a "Teen" rating in some countries, in others it will give "Mature", etc.

I'm personally using the age ratings and content descriptions of my country, since I decided to focus only in the local market for the ease of administration purposes. Truth be said, how a single person can deal with global audience alone? Development, translation, localization, tech support, age ratings. Now multiply the amount of work by each language you decide to add support to (of course, if I had more persons working with me it could be done).

I think that if using something that already exists (like IARC) is a hassle, letting developers cope with age ratings at their own could be a better solution.

What could be a good solution would be to add a separate "age tags" section instead of a complete system with description and such. "Everyone", "Teen", "Mature", "Adult-Only" and "Non-Rated" for example. It still could lead to some headaches depending of the customer country though.

Admin moved this topic to Ideas & Feedback
(+1)

Sounds great!

(+2)

Particularly for the purposes of itchio's community as it exists, I think it would be useful to - in addition to "is this NSFW or not" and "what (of a limited list of content warnings) makes it NSFW?" ask "is this game intended as erotica."

Furthermore, add an icon marker to games flagged as NSFW even when a user has noted that they wish to see these games.

I want to see art games whether or not they include NSFW content, but by turning on "show NSFW" most of what's added is niche erotica targeted at someone who is not me. (I'm sure the intended consumers of those games are likewise irritated.) 

Being able to filter out topics that one desires not to be exposed to - for example, I really don't want to see naked ladies, but am fine with the reverse; lots of people feel the other way around - would also be nice, and that's a level of specificity past the list of specific content warnings already described. (It would have to be enforced laxly, because a major chunk of itch's creator and userbase is trans, so there are a lot of cases where nudity in a product can't be strictly classed as one thing or another.)

(+1)

This is truly irritating because it adds noise to the listing of games

(+1)

I’m making appropriate-kid games and books cause I find this very inappropriate for kids so please only allow 10+ year olds IF they ask their parents!

(+2)

I'm currently looking for games to play with my 4 year old. She wants to play zoo games. She can't read and has a short attention span. Most of the time, she watches me and my husband moving the mouse. She likes watching us creating pizzas in Pizza Connection and decorating the restaurants.


I would very much appreciate a filter, that

a) filters the games she is not allowed to play because they contain violence etc.

b) helps me to find games that a 4 years old actually likes to play (herself topic and difficulty level)

c) helps me to find games that a 4 years old likes to watch me playing (topic)

(+1)

I want to second the idea of having granular scales for each category of material.

It would be nice to have a distinction between games like Doom Eternal and walking simulators like Firewatch (both are M-rated). And has been stated before, rating systems are inconsistent across different countries, and people have different preferences on what type of content they are okay with.

I would like to see a system that has 4 levels (e.g. none, suggested, mild, explicit) for the following categories: violence, nudity, sexual content, language, drug use, and maybe a category for psychological distress (i.e. horror). That would cover the whole gamut of content. It would make the rating system more culturally agnostic. It would be easy to filter in search results. It would also future-proof the rating system because you can programmatically assign E, T, M, and AO ratings. From a UX perspective, it would also force content creators to think about the content so that works are not inappropriately assigned, which happens all the time on sites where the NSFW flag is opt-in.

I understand the merits of a simple rating system; it's fast. But the gap between "viewer discretion advised" and "Adult Only" is too large. A user setting their rating restrictions is something that people generally only have to do once, or very infrequently (i.e. searching for a friend or family member), so I wouldn't worry about it being too difficult. Just include it as part of the user onboarding process: 4 clicks, and done.

(+2)

What if when visiting a page with a specific age rating one of the following would happen:

  • If the game's age rating is at or below the person's age (if they should be able to view it) they will gain access to the page just fine.
  • If the game's age rating is above the person's age, but the page is not rated as 18+ (the person is too young and the game does NOT have adult content) then the user will receive a message that the content isn't suited for them, however they are ALLOWED (not shown right away, they must click a button) to view the page
  • If the game's age rating is 18+ AND the user is 18
    • If the user has adult content toggled on in their settings, they can view the content
    • If the user does not have adult content toggles on in their settings, they will receive a message that says the page contains adult content, and will be directed to their Settings and Preferences page.
  • If the game's age rating is 18+ but the user is below 18
    • The user will not be able to view the page, and an error message saying their access to the page is denied.

For publishers and developers, they will be required to complete a short multiple choice quiz that will determine age results based on the following:

  • Drug usage
    • None (0)
    • Mild (2)
    • Moderate (4)
    • Intense (5)
  • Explicit Sexual content
    • None (0)
    • Moderate (15)
  • Graphical Violence
    • None (0)
    • Mild (2)
    • Moderate (3)
    • Intense (4)
  • Fantasy/Cartoon Violence 
    • None (0)
    • Mild (1)
    • Moderate (2)
  • Explicit language
    • None (0)
    • Mild (2)
    • Moderate (3)

0-1 = Everyone

2-7 = Ages 13 and up

8-14 = Ages 16 and up

15+ = Ages 18 and up

For simplicity, however, all values and scores would be hidden.

I think that a similar system to the one on gamejolt would be cool

This is an old thread, so this idea may have been already supposed:

Instead of having individual tags for content like "Drug usage", have different categories of content rated by the developer out of 5*, similar to how the site Common Sense Media does it.

Each axis of rating should also have a word-limited textbox to clarify what content is in the game, again much like CSM. Coinciding with this is a list of tags oriented towards potential specific triggers, (e.g: self-harm, eating disorders, flashing lights, sexual harassment).

This should also integrate into a Content Warning Page, appearing when you click on a game for the first time before showing the game page. It would show the content ratings and associated clarifications, as well as the list of trigger tags, then requiring a confirmation to proceed to the game page.

*: possibly with an aggregate community rating shown side-by-side
†: who I have significant hang-ups with, but nonetheless
‡: a plausibly important coinciding change is to allow the report system to file for misrepresentative tags and ratings

It can also have IARC

So, was this implemented or not?

(+2)

I think a content rating system for itch.io would be great, although if there is a new system for itch.io, it should somewhat follow the industry standards as seen in IARC in order to make the transition for developers as smooth as possible since a lot of them might sell their games on other storefronts or platforms such as Steam or the Nintendo eShop. Preferably, I'd like to see itch.io with the option to use IARC (ESRB/PEGI)/CERO ratings in addition to an itch.io built a system that works in a similar but simpler way. For that simplified system, using some ideas I've seen in this thread and from other rating systems that are in IARC, this is my idea for how an itch.io rating system could work out.

--

Ratings

  • Everyone
    • Intended for players ages 3-11
    • Similar to ESRB's Everyone, PEGI's 7, CERO's A (All Ages)
    • Mario Kart
  • Teenage 
    • Intended for players ages 12-14
    • Similar to ESRB's Teen, PEGI's 12, CERO's C (Ages 15 and up)
    • The Legend of Zelda
  • Mature 
    • Intended for players ages 16-17
    • Similar to PEGI's 16, CERO's D (Ages 17 and up)
    • Monster Hunter
  • Adult/NSFW
    • Intended for players ages 18 and up
    • Similar to ESRB's Adults Only, PEGI's 18, CERO's Z (Ages 18 and up only)

I think 4 categories works out since each is distinct and easy to follow. Everyone represents games that are suitable for all ages and at most may have content that isn't suitable for extremely young children. Teenage (I think it should have a different name, maybe Moderate, but I can't come up with one) represents games that are suggestive or mild in terms of their content. Mature represents games that are realistic in their content but are otherwise moderate in their content. Adult/NSFW represents games that are clearly graphic or explicit in their content and should not be viewable by players that aren't 18 or older. 

Content Descriptors

Content Descriptors 

These broadly denote the type of content featured in a game and would be prominently featured on a games store page.

  • Violence
    • Fighting or harmful action
  • Graphic Content
    • Blood, gore, etc
  • Sexual Content
    • Nudity, sexual activity, innuendos, etc
  • Language
    • Swearing, expletives, etc
  • Drugs, Alchohol, and Smoking
    • Depictions or use of drugs, alcohol, or tobacco products
  • Distress
    • Frightful elements, horror, self-harm, etc
  • Gambling 
    • Gambling, depictions of gambling, lootboxes, etc

Content Descriptor Tags

These are tags that go into specifics as to what type of content the game features within the descriptors themselves, and would be searchable just like the other metadata tags that are used for games currently.

  • Violence
    • Fighting 
    • Dismemberment 
    • Exaggerated fictional violence 
    • Murder
    • Corpses
  • Graphic Content
    • Blood
    • Gore
  • Sexual Content
    • Suggestive clothing
    • Innuendos
    • Partial nudity
    • Nudity
    • Depictions of sexual activity
  • Language
    • Mild language
    • Abusive language
    • Blasphemy
  • Drugs, Alchohol, and Smoking
    • Drug use and reference
    • Drug reference 
    • Alchohol use and reference
    • Alchohol reference
    • Smoking use and reference
    • Smoking reference
  • Distress
    • Occult characters (ghosts, zombies, etc)
    • Unsettling atmosphere/character design
    • Horrific sounds
    • Horrific graphical elements
    • Frightening surprise (jumpscares)
    • Self-harm
    • Depression 
  • Gambling
    • Gambling reference
    • Lootboxes
    • Organized crime

The content descriptor and the content descriptor Tgas would be used together to denote what a games overall rating is. For example, a game like Super Mario Odyssey, at least going off of its current ratings around the world, would have the Violence descriptor with an exaggerated fictional violence tag (enemies poof out of existence when attacked) and a Distress descriptor with occult characters tag (zombie costume, realistic dinosaurs, etc) within this system. These are then used to decide the ratings through a questionnare. So, if we use Odyssey as our example, it would only have a Violence and Distress descriptor with only one tag each, which would give it an Everyone rating. 

--

This brings the best of both worlds in my opinion, as it simplifies the rating system to four ratings and 7 content descriptors that are easy to understand and are universal, and several amounts of tags, which allows for granularity in the content players would like to browse. When combined together, the system could make it easy to know exactly what type of content is in a game. Originally, I had the idea of a level for content ranging from Minimal to Mild to Moderate to Severe for each content descriptor, but after pondering it, that doesn't solve the issue of it being universal, as different cultures have different tolerances for that type of content. Having general and universally understood content descriptors and then more specific tags for specific types of content allow players to easily see the general rating for a game, and to view the descriptor tags for a specific look as to what content is featured, and has the benefit of being searchable within itch.io, being easier to set up in a rating submission form, and is easier to add and edit in the future as it doesn't require developers to consider what severity level their game is and instead be specific as to what the game actually features.

I would really like to see a rating system added to itch.io, and I hope this feedback helps in some way!

I like the idea of doing this but I would expect making things complicated would likely cause problems so from my perspective the following fairly simple solution might work:

Everyone - suitable for all ages.

Shows up in search results.

No content warning regardless of logged on or visiting without logging in.

Example: some sort of flower garden simulator (grow flowers and arrange them in a garden).


Mature - more intense content.

Shows up in search results. 

No content warning if logged in.

Content warning if visiting without logging in.

Example: Some sort of ninja assassin game (sneak around and kill people but not with excessive brutality).


Adult - pretty much anything goes.

The default age rating.

Will not show up in search results unless logged in and a toggle in the profile setting its ticked.

Has a warning if attempting to access it without logging in (like it is already with most of these games).

Has a warning if attempting to access it while logged in and the profile toggle is disabled.

Example: A blatantly obvious porn game (no explanation needed I think).


Where tags are concerned I'm included to leave it to the developer to decide with users that are logged in able to suggest tags however the developer decides if the tag is appropriate or not - specific types of content could be noted here like drug use - to make it easier perhaps a tag cloud of some sort could be made to make tagging accurately easier.

Deleted 2 years ago
(+5)

With respect, this is not only a bad idea, but antithetical to Itch.io's purpose.
There are plenty of porn games on this platform I find distasteful, some of them I even think are wrong to make. But Itch facilitates these games because beyond a basic code of ethics, it is meant to be an open marketplace where anyone can distribute their game. Democratizing games is the goal.

It's reasonable to me that you should have the right to filter out content you don't want to see. It is not, however, reasonable to eradicate content you don't want to see. Banning porn games on Itch would remove vast swathes of queer art, and historically, porn bans have been used to do just that.

Advocate for better content filtering, not abolishing content you don't like. 

(+1)

I feel like a reporting system should be added, if someone doesn’t mark their game containing NSFW as NSFW, the user in itch.io can report him and the admin can force their game to be marked as NSFW after the report is successful.

Moderator(+1)

You can already use the existing report system for that.

Ah already have it? I didn’t pay much attention, after all I rarely play games on itch, and I’m mostly in Developing Games. 😂

Moderator

Yes, there's a little link at the bottom of every project page. It's not very visible.

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