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Do you actually get to have sex with Asterion?

A topic by Joland7000 created 80 days ago Views: 1,490 Replies: 43
Viewing posts 1 to 9
(1 edit)

Spoilers: I just played the game and finished last night. Boy, did it go on and on. Other than the can’t-unsee Luke sex scene, there’s really not a lot of NSFW stuff going on. Am I doing something wrong? Or has that part not been written yet?   We professed our love to each other, kissed and that’s all…

Developer(+3)

Hey Joland, the game is not finished yet, we've still got about a third of the story to go. We'll get to it. 

That’s what you was hoping! Thank you for your hard work. Amazing story!

(+1)(-1)

hi, apologies in advance since i'm unsure if this is already discussed and/or if this is the incorrect place to ask about this, but, is asterion strictly a bottom? and is it possible for a bottom mc to be with asterion? because i saw somewhere on twitter that i think implies mc has to be a top to be with asterion sexually

Developer (1 edit) (+9)

EDIT: The response that followed caused quite a lot of discussion because it contained a misconception about submission and bottoming. That wasn't what I intended when writing it but, regardless, the implication was there. I have edited this response.

Hi, eli.

When we started Minotaur Hotel the plan was for Asterion to only be a bottom, as that's what fit his character and the story we wanted to tell. That's just his sexual preference. In due time the story will explore this.

We might have a scene where he can top, but that would probably be near the end of the game.

I understand that for a lot of people this may not be the answer they want, but trust that we're trying to tell this story in the best, most cohesive way we can.

(+2)

It makes total sense to me for him to be a bottom with how submissive he is. The only way I could imagine him being on top is with a power bottom calling all the shots lol 

(+1)

Some master: "Go on, Asterion. Show me you're not the meek man they've sentenced you to be!" 

(+1)(-1)

I believe the term for Asterion would be service top in this case. I feel like most people are unaware that role and position can be separate things.

(+2)(-1)

Hi team,

Sorry to be contary but i disagree. Asterion comes across as someone would actually require more confidence as an active bottom than a passive top. Frankly making him start off as a service top makes far more sense with a caring master dynamic, especially with his confidence in consideration. It would be better to show Asterion what pleasure is (ie ask him to lie down, pants off, play with the bull) before expecting him to pleasure the MC. Powerbottoming Asterion would be a natural extension of that.

(+2)(-1)

hi dev team and all others!

Wanted to contribute and throw in my ideas as well. Don't wanna be contrary either, but I do agree with what others have said, that it doesn't make sense to have Asterion only be a bottom with the reasoning that being a top would require more self-confidence. 

There's the idea that tops have to be confident, in control, and dominant, while bottoms have to be submissive, but that's not always the case. So, basically, what I'm trying to get at, is that I think once Asterion has the self-confidence for sex (and I fully agree he has to get to that point first), he could be either a top or bottom and have it still fit his character. If he was a top, he could be a service top like someone mentioned, or just let the MC guide him through it and show what it's like to simultaneously give and receive pleasure. Explicit example: having him lay back as the MC rides him (i.e. riding the bull lmao). Plus, I feel like getting to be with a top like that would be a very unique experience, one that isn't explored as much in other games, but would be awesome with the characters here.

Also, it was said that Asterion wouldn't have the confidence to top, but honestly, with the 'preparation' and initial discomfort often involved, being a new bottom can require even more confidence than being a new top, especially if bottoming isn't something the individual specifically really wants lol. Self-confidence isn't always the determiner in whether someone is okay with 'giving,' but it seems that part of Asterion's motivation is giving what he can to the MC, and if the MC wanted to be the bottom, it seems Asterion would be more comfortable with making that happen and being the top. 

I know this turned into a full essay lol, and I don't wanna presume to understand the characters more than you, but I've been really loving the game, and largely because of the opportunities for choosing who your character is and what they do. Maybe it's just me trying to push what I want, but I know that at least my personal experience with the game would be really improved with the option to choose in this sense too. Either way tho, fantastic game and story, seriously love it, amazing job to all those who have worked on it!!!

(+3)

I'd like vanilla, strawberry, and blue bunny. I hate the cones so please put it in one of the small plastic pots please!

(+1)(-2)

God I can't believe this is what lead me to write in the forums, hah! 

I will preface with this: This is your story, and I get, and it is ok if you want Asterion to be a bottom, if you want to write him that way, it IS your character and you can do with him whatever you want. It is fine, and even though I would like him to top some more than what you allude he will do, It'd be only a minor disappointment, really. Now, however, I want make a correction on a misunderstanding you seem to have, and I am gonna blame it on you (you guys? plural? can't remember if it's more than one writer or not.) being Latino (I THINK I heard you were?). Us latinos have the word for top being "activo/ativo" and bottom be "pasivo". This implies that most if not all tops are dominant and most if not all bottoms are submissive. This is kind of ingrained, and even I have to de-learn it, but this is wrong. (Even if you're not latinos tho, some people even in the gay community still think that bottom means submissive too...) And I will argue that, honestly? If you're writing the character to make sense for the story you want to tell, being a bottom from the get go makes actually little sense (And I say this, as a DOMINANT, switch leaning bottom, so even though it sounds like I might be biased, I'm honestly looking at it through a narrative perspective)

First things first, Bottom. Bottom just means the guy who gets penetrated, it has no bearing on if a guy is dominant or submissive, though it's viewed by a lot that way, but that's far from true for a lot of people. There are submissive bottoms, and there are ALSO submissive tops, guys who don't like to be fucked, but only fuck, but at the same time like it when the bottom takes charge, leads them, teach them, order them around, what have you (another brand is Lazy tops, those who just like to be ridden cause they're lazy and can't be bothered to put the effort, but Asterion is no lazy boy no sir). On the same vein, there are dominant bottoms, who like to take charge, boss the top around, straight up "ride the bull" as someone already stated. 

So where I go with this is... Look, I get it, actually. I follow your logic, really, you just started from the wrong premise and got to a weird/wrong conclusion. If you were to replace "bottom" with "submissive", then what you wrote makes absolutely perfect sense. He does not have the self confidence to be *dominant* in bed. Him taking the charge, as a dominant would, during his first sex experiences would be jarring and out of character for him. It would make more sense if the MC actually leads him in, teaches him the ropes, specially if the first one or first few is just about exploring each other bodies, and no penetration is involved. Learning about what makes the other tick, etc, with the MC taking control, leading the way, and when Asterion has gotten his confidence all the way up, then and ONLY then is he comfortable to maybe take charge and be dominant. None of this alludes to his sexual preference on giving or receiving anal. If we're going for cohesiveness, I honestly believe this would work better, but of course I'm not trying to write the story you're telling, it is you who write it, I just want to fix a misconception about sexual preferences that kinda would go against the story you want to tell.

My point here is... Asterion's sexual awakening and story, if it's going to be told in a consistent and cohesive way, should be a submissive guy who does not know what he wants yet! He can end being a submissive switch who prefers to bottom and can get to be dominant from time to time, which seems to be the implication of what you want to write both for his character and fan-service alike, but he should not start that way! You have written him in very consistent ways, and he keeps stating over and over that he doesn't know what he wants, refuses to acknowledge his feelings, feels ashamed of them, does his best to try not to think about anything sexual, dare he to dream of this? And he has never in all his millennia alive, ever considered sex or a loving partner, because he thinks himself a monster. And, if Storm is his supposed parallel, he probably never even figured out if he was gay or not until he caught feelings for the MC! This would imply he never, ever had considered what he would want to do with a partner, not until now. 

Now my third point is a touchy subject, and that is sexual abuse... It hasn't been stated if he's endured that, but it is not unheard of for slaves to be abused and sodomised with objects, and if the purpose of a jailor was to deliberately make him suffer, there's nothing stopping them from giving him further humiliation this way. This would mean that Asterion would be more reluctant to bottom, even if he trusts the MC, than the other way around (and there is some... beauty in the ide of guiding him around learning what he likes, letting him experiment with other stuff, letting him top first, then finally him trusting MC to bottom, and finding out he LOVES it, and ending up being a mostly bottom guy, now this would definitely be in line with the story I think). I don't know if sexual abuse will be part of Asterion's past, and I honestly don't want it to be because my poor baby moo has suffered enough, but it would fall in line with him suffering through every humiliation and punishment under the sun... This is why I would say, him being a bottom from the get go would actually be a more Jarring and out-of-character scenario than him being a top, switch, or more fittingly, not knowing which he is. 

Lastly I do have to point out something that would work on your favor on him being a bottom, and that's ancient greek/cretan/roman believes of sexual position and power dynamics, and he might have those ingrained in him, but I would argue (though this is speculation and you have the last say on that), is that you wrote yourself into a corner with his story if we're gonna go that route. First, he was a very sheltered moo who, up to age 12 I believe, when he was sent to the labyrinth (this would be before or JUST around his sexual awakening, so even if people told him about sex and such and power dynamics I doubt he would have understood or taken anything like that to heart), took a while to have human interaction again, and that was with just one guy, for 3-4 years, and they were more interested in trying to convince him to kill their dad, then on physically training him, than having sex with him or teaching him "yo never bottom that's gay, dude." Then, of course, is 3 more years in the Asphodel Meadows, where supposedly the souls there don't suffer, and are all equal, so why bother with power dynamics and such? (though I don't even know if they have sex in there, or care for it? but this is up to you of course, tis your story) But it's stated Asterion is thought to be a beast by everyone, whether they're friendly to him or not, and would not try to romance him or have sex with him, so (as far as I know) he wouldn't even try to consider thinking about it nor people would teach him anything of this. His next human interaction were his jailors, who would just torture him in any way they thought, so it isn't until the hotel is created and guests arrive that he may have found some knowledge about same sex, power dynamics, what have you, but the thing is, he wasn't just getting guests from greece, rome, etc, he's supposed to have gotten guests from all kinds of cultures, and there are cultures where gay sex was considered ok, normal, it was fine to be either top or bottom, there are some Native American tribes who thought gays were a "third sex" and they had partners just the same and it wasn't about being bottom =submissive,  so I personally find it hard to believe he would really have it ingrained that if he's submissive he must be the bottom, though it is true that he was locked up during the gay liberation era where it TRULY became ok in the eyes of most of the world... however, even if you write it as he does have these believes in him, it is what he may think he wants, because he's "not dominant", but the MC knows better. He SHOULD know better, and even may have a preference (or not, switch life!)  whether he's a seasoned guy or a virgin (from the options given, either is possible), from a top to a bottom, he does have the internet and porn, so he should know what he wants or wants to try, and if Asterion doesn't really understand himself, it'd be up to the MC to either teach him the ropes, or both to learn together what they like or not. This, I believe, would be a more fitting scenario.

Now, as I stated at the beginning, in the end it is your story, you are the one who will write whatever you will see fitting for your character, your story, and everything. If you decide to have him be a super bottom from the get go, I will just have to swallow my copium pills and that's that, I will not stop enjoying this Visual novel whatsoever, just think it's a bit weird how sexually Asterion would be written. I have said all this from the bottom of my heart, I truly hope I didn't sound condescending or annoying in any way, I just think that, if you were writing Asterion to be this way because of story cohesiveness, to fit story themes, etc, this would be a better way to go. If you do care for story cohesiveness (And after reading and re-reading this VN for 4 days almost straight, finding new nuggets of lore every time and seeing how much attention to detail is put to every little thing in this story I literally have no doubt that you do care) I just hope you will at least consider what I said.


Thank you for coming to my TED talk.


TL;DR: Asterion should be a submissive who doesn't know what he wants, actually. 


P.S.: By the Twelve I am soooo sorry for making you read (if you did) essentially a fucking 3 page dissertation on Asterion's sexual preferences, as I said I say this from a position of love, I have never read a novel that hits me as hard as this one did. I consider Minotaur hotel an actual masterpiece.  It's been years since any piece of media had me be forced to just stop for a few minutes due to inconsolable, loud sobbing and ugly crying (last time was after watching anohana, if you know... You know), and It wasn't just once but constantly! The attention to details, how deep the lore is, how deep the characters are (and hot, of course), It's just pure perfection, and although I do have to admit I'm the ever so slightly biased for wanting bull cock, It is not the main nor the biggest reason I  wrote all this. In the end though, I'll accept whatever you decide to write for my little pogchamp star, as he's already perfection upon this earth.  

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Many direct things within the text (beyond him being submissive) point to him resolutely being a bottom.

Throughout already, Asterion responds to posterior attention with flustered bashfulness and blushing giddy excitement:

-He gets visibly flustered if the MC handles his tail.

-When the MC puts his hand on Asterion's lower back, Asterion instinctively raises his tail and squirms.

-If you do the language subplot fully, Asterion writes a poem about the "warmth" he feels with the MC behind him and touching his back.

-during the kiss, if the MC grabs Asterion's rump, Asterion presses back against the MCs hand, rather than grind his crotch against the MC's.

Every indication is given that he is very deep-seatedly a (submissive) bottom.

Not to mention the positioning, I think having sex with Asterion is already a challenge on its own(given in this scene).

But I'm sure the developers will have their ways of bending the rules and abusing loopholes. So let's hope and pray.

(+1)

i'm pretty sure MC doesn't count as a guest

(+1)

What do you mean? You're a master and not a guest. It's just untrodden territory for the moo. Masters were all male, and as far as he knows with his past experiences, being gay was not normal (in his convo with Luke). Not to mention the nature of those relationships. 

The real question is: How will they initiate the scene? Asterion imo is unlikely to bring it up; he'll probably be stuck at some 'Am I deserving to indulge in such pleasures? With the master, no less?' spiel in his head. If it is you who does so, I'm betting that the speedrunner route will have some fun shenanigans.

(1 edit)

Hmmmm, with my previous concern proven to be no longer worth worrying about by you guys, I've cleared my mind now. And as for how the scene can play out, I have some ideas in mind.

Asterion only learned about our(the MC's) affection(or love) for him through Nikos, so it's fine for his first approach of intimacy to us was only a passionate kissing and cuddling sequal. Maybe after giving him more time and space to gather his confidence and readiness, he'll eventually feel comfortable enough about having an intercourse with us(the MC). He may still be shy about it, given he's never experienced or enjoyed affection and love on an intimate and sensual level with anyone else ever since he's been given birth until now(not just the accompany like with his friends, his master or playing with the masters' kids).  I think he'll eventually listen and give in to his cravings.

(+3)

Guys I think we  all agree here that as long no one gets hurt, both have consent, and most importantly both have fun and respect their boundaries in the process anything goes~~~

(+7)

This thread is wild.

Developer(+4)

.
(+1)

Don't give up O prince of darkness

Too many big shots, Ralsei!

Ralsei is the type of person who would play carmelldansen downstairs and lock himself in his room just to pretend there were people downstairs he was trying to avoid rather than admit he's alone.


...


Look, I'm sorry. 

It's okay, though, because we're dating in Deltarune so long as we're not so secretly family in anagramatic ways. Otherwise the hugs and blushing and telling Susie we'd take him the festival in that way were just things friends do. Definitely. Ignore the tunnel of acidic love boat ride on a swan. *coughs*

(Also I literally loaded up this page right after rereading the Undertale alarm clock text that seems relevant to Deltarune and was tearing up from Asgore and Flowey. I'm not heartless! Mino...)

(+3)

Y'know what? sex's cancelled. 

Only hand holding 

-the devs, probably

(+3)

NOO!! Asterion is too pure for the sin of hand holding!

Developer(+8)

Hello, everyone. I won't make this into a response to one person in particular, please consider this a general one for the discussion around Asterion being a bottom/submissive.

Truth is, whenever I answer to people in the forum and Q&As I always have to balance sharing information to clarify/answer things with not saying so much that it goes into spoiler territory. I like to think that we get the right balance more often than not. This means, however, that I almost never put all the cards on the table, and when someone is coming from outside it's possible to indicate things and raise points and inconsistencies in what I said when, again, I'm not saying everything because that would just spoil the story. As long as I'm in this position I don't think I can give the full explanation people might want.

Another way to put this is that when I say "Asterion is a bottom" I'm summarizing to you the result of, let's say, a character arc. We have a story in mind already, we know where we are going, and the fact that we don't explain every plot beat in advance doesn't mean we haven't thought things through.

We have crafted the whole story so far with a lot of love and attention to detail. We get a lot of people saying they trust us to do what's best for the story, and I'm really thankful for that. I know this may not feel satisfactory but the best thing I can say right now is: trust us. Asterion's sexuality will receive just as much attention to detail (if not more) as the rest of his story.

In the whole development of the game we have rarely compromised on our creative vision, and so far we've only been told that this approach has been successful. We think our original plan is the right way to go. In the end all I can ask is that you have faith on our writing, in our plan and in our vision.

(+8)

If i may, i'm afraid this issue is outside of the narrative. There are a lot of self insert MCs in this medium, and pickier readers may expect to have their preferences represented. I find this saturation has become detrimental, since most protagonists end up having a mute personality, and there's a lack of incentive for people to experience stories from "not their own perspective". 

On the matter of Asterion's preferences, i fully support wathever you decide to do with it, and would ask that readers respect his sexuality much like they would a real person. Because, i believe, your story is bringing actual characters to life, as opposed to some form of virtual-adult-toy.

(-1)

I think this was more than a satisfying response, actually. I think the problem might have been oversharing, sometimes the less shared the better. This time, it lead to speculation, and worries because we tend to imagine the "worst". But in the end I never put into doubt that you take great care into writing this story, nor did I doubt the attention to detail that's already the standard of the story so far would continue as it is. Keep up the amazing job! 

We're about 600,000 words in if the pre-release update is to be believed and we've only just had our first kiss in Chapter 18 right at the end. I get worrying over something you like, but if anyone should get the benefit of the doubt it's this team. Like this thread only exists because the amount of work and attention to detail being put into this has come at the expense of whatever shorthand you'd usually use to get to the sex. I watched someone stream the game thinking the armband and consequence of breaking that promise was going to be sex lmao. It's just not that type of story. 

(Holding my tongue a bit about a story that definitely set up those expectations because it does work for that story but it was also undeniably a quick way to escalate things.)

(+1)

Well, I didn't care about Asterion's role as bottom or top, but being submissive/dominant. I believe his development as character will be the key feature to encourage or discourage him to "take the bull by the horns", ironically speaking, and I trust in the developers that they want to surprise us.

Khenbish would be angry at how horny we all become 

Is that a bad thing? He looks so cute when he's mad...

I chuckled myself when he exploded too 

(+2)

He's a sensitive boar. 

Peach, plum, pe--

Developer(+7)

Is Khenbish the Ness from Earthbound after growing up?

Developer(+1)

get matpat on the phone right now

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oh god, there's even a phone in Minotaur Hotel. Is Nikos Kheness's* dad? Is that why Lucas has a rope snake?? I want to stop but it keeps getting dark, darker, yet darker. Nanoff, WHY?

*Also known as a Snake-a Kheness's. That's a bad joke but I'm not erasing it.

at first i was like "what?", but then i remembered the plot of that game had plenty of outworldly events

RUN

(+3)

RUN

(+5)

When I did my first playthrough on the previous version of the game I admit I was mostly waiting around for some Minotaur action since I generally don't play VNs.

After my playthrough on the current version I have to say I enjoy the story and characters enough that I'm fine with what we've gotten so far in that department, I have enough of an affection for Asterion as a character that I want to see the romantic aspect of the story develop naturally. I think the writers have done a good job with this and I like that it's a believable relationship and not some generic 'You were nice to me three times master and now I love you forever'

Whether he's a top or a bottom isn't really important to me, I think him being either could work with enough time and context, and I don't think his submissive nature is reflective of either, it's more likely the result of him being secluded from people and kept in servitude for most of his life, and being wary of the Master. He gets to be fairly assertive about what he wants later on in the story.



this UwU