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Monster/Combat Questions

A topic by King Nate created Feb 03, 2020 Views: 662 Replies: 6
Viewing posts 1 to 5
(3 edits)

So I have a few questions about monsters as I'm trying to figure out this new system. 

The number of monsters that appear is only used to determine if the monsters outnumber the goblins or do I as the GM have to cross off moves for each of the monsters as each of them take hits? With 10 clerics, each with 3 moves am I only marking off 3 moves or 30? If only 3 does this change if you have different types of monsters? 3 clerics, 3 skeletons, 3 zombies, and a necromancer. Each with 3 moves, would that be 14 moves to cross off total or still only 3 moves? Or am I completely playing a different game here? 

What happens if the players decide to not do anything with a monster? It seems like they are only in danger when they take an action, so if they don't take an action are they not in danger? How do I get a monster to swing a sword at a goblin? If the player decides to do nothing when being attacked, what happens? When do monsters attack in the initiative order?

An example of combat would be nice.

When changing positions, say you are in good position, but something happens that would normally start you in a bad position, do you change directly to the bad position or do you move to standard position first?

What if a monster attacks a goblin that has already taken their action die off the initiative because that's how the fiction calls for it?

How many twist can be added to a roll or is there even a limit? 

Thanks

Developer (1 edit)

Hey Nate,

These are  great questions, and I think they highlight some important points for folks coming to Goblinville from other systems.  I'm going to try to answer through an example.  If you still have questions, let me know.

Four goblins enter a tomb and they are attacked by six skeleton warriors.  A skeleton warrior has 3 moves: shamble, push over, and slash. 

 

 However,  they also have armor:



With Chainmail (2 armor),  a group of enemies (+1 armor), and the goblins outnumbered (+1 armor): the skeletons have 4 armor.

At the table, a skeleton stat block might look like this:

(A pack of six skeletons is tough.  It's worth noting that a pack of nine skeletons is not necessarily tougher, but we found that these rules made fighting groups of monsters challenging without turning it into a slog. )

The GM frames their approach based on the moves: "The sacrophogi burst open, and a skeletal warrior emerges out of each one.  They shamble toward you, blades drawn."  Since problems like this target the first goblin in marching order, the GM turns to that player and says: "You see the skeletons' bent and rusted swords still have a jagged edge,  what do you do?"

The player says that their goblin attacks the nearest skeleton with their broken bottle.  The GM assesses the positioning:


The skeletons are bigger, better armed, and more numerous.  The goblins are in a definitely in a bad position.

The GM passes the player their action die and restates the action (you might harm the skeleton), then hands over a danger die and states the danger (you might get knocked to the floor). The goblin is also risking harm (from the sword) so they grab a third die.

The player then resolves the action, danger, and harm.  Maybe they are panicked (from the harm roll) and tackled by a skeleton, but they managed to stab one ( the GM crosses out an armor on the skeleton stat block).

If another player describes their goblin helping the first one to their feet, then the GM sets the conditions for that roll: action (you help your ally up and improve your positioning), danger (the tackled goblin is injured), and harm.  Note that this puts a goblin at risk who is out of the marching order, but still leaves resolution in the players' hands.  I've seen so many players mark a condition for their own goblin to protect an ally.


To address a few of your specific questions:

Monsters don't need a place in the marching order.  They present dangers that set the terms of the players' rolls.  Since each roll resolves the goblin's action and the danger they face (along with potential harm and twists) the GM doesn't need a turn.  That said, they should constantly be putting pressure on the players and asking how they respond.

Positioning can easily go from good to bad in a single action.  Maybe the goblins want to attempt something that would be impossible if not for the advantageous position that they're in.  The GM can slide the position tracker to 'bad' and let the goblin take their shot.  If a player is surprised that an action puts them in bad position, let them reframe what they are attempting.  Maybe they can achieve something more modest with less risk.  The position tracker helps the players and GM maintain a shared sense of the stakes of  a given situation: move it when it makes sense to.

It sounds like you're concerned the player might refuse to have their goblin act (since they face consequences on a failed roll) but I haven't seen this happen in play.  If the player says their goblin does nothing, the GM should ask what they hope to accomplish/ what they want out of the situation.  You could say: "if you stand still this skeleton is going to run you through with a sword. Is that what you do?"  If they say yes, then they mark injured.  i'm not saying that you should inflict conditions without a roll, but Goblinville is all about telling players the potential consequences and asking what they do.  In practice, if you ask the player what they want to accomplish, then they end up moving the game forward (either with a roll or a good idea).

Mixed units of enemies certainly comes up sometimes.  The only change you make is to replace those generic armor slots (that monsters get from being in a group) with specific moves from the other types of monsters present.  Here's a necromancer with his skeleton guards:


One thing to note, in your example you ask about "3 clerics, 3 skeletons, 3 zombies, and a necromancer".  Those are probably impossible stakes for a group of goblins.  I would recommend starting with the adventures from the books, seeing how tough a human or two can be for a goblin, and playing from there.

Happy to answer any other questions that come up, or to tag in some other players on the forum who have experience with running conflicts.

Developer (1 edit)

Oh I missed a question:

"How many twist can be added to a roll or is there even a limit? "

Yes, one twist per roll.  We found that more than that makes it hard to remember what each element of resolution represents; it slows down rolls without adding much to gameplay.

Also, there's only one Twist space on the player sheet:


Thanks for the quick answers. That clears things up some. I did come up with a couple more questions. But first. The example I gave with 3 clerics, 3 skeletons, 3 zombies, and a necromancer was just to have 10 monsters with different types when compared to 10 monsters of the same type. So  you're saying 10 monster of different types is impossible for a group of goblins, but 10 monsters of the same type is a standard encounter? Also I'm using 10 clerics as an example as I recall seeing 10 clerics as a monster in one of the adventures. 

So what I'm understanding from your answers is that each encounter only has one monster block regardless of the number or types of monsters? We just add more armor or moves to that monster block to get that feeling? I'm ok with that, but I'm just trying to make sure I understand correctly. 

Only one twist? Doesn't that make armor pointless or discourage goblins from coming up with their own twist? A goblin that has already taken their action die from the initiative would like to jump in and risk something to give a twist to another goblin, no need to bother though as the goblin is wearing armor and already gets a twist from wearing it. Or the GM offers a twist to the player, but the player is like, nope, I'll just use my twist from my armor instead. 

Monster armor and moves are basically the same thing, just one is more flavorable than the other? 

Finally, how do you narrate the monsters dying or running off? If you have 10 clerics with 3 moves, that would give them 2 armor for being in a group and outnumbering the goblins. The goblins hit one, reducing their armor by 1 and I'm assuming killing one of the clerics? The problem being that there are 10 clerics and only 5 (3 moves 2 armor) things to cross off. If the narration says they killed 5 clerics over the course of 5 actions, then that would cross off all 5 boxes and leave 5 clerics still alive. I can't just have them run off and escape, the players would chase them down. So how does this work in this game? 

Again thanks, I like the idea of the game, but I'm having trouble understanding how it works. I haven't found a live play video of it yet. 

Developer

"So  you're saying 10 monster of different types is impossible for a group of goblins, but 10 monsters of the same type is a standard encounter?"

I see the confusion.  That group of 10 monsters you referenced isn't a 'standard encounter': they are a death sentence for that village.  I seen that goblins take out one or two that they managed to ambush, but taking the group head-on would likely be disasterous.  This is the case in many of our adventures: the goblins are small creatures in a perilous world.  There is no expectation that they can take on every threat they run into.


"So what I'm understanding from your answers is that each encounter only has one monster block regardless of the number or types of monsters?  We just add more armor or moves to that monster block to get that feeling?"

Yes, exactly.


"Only one twist? Doesn't that make armor pointless or discourage goblins from coming up with their own twist?"

Leather Armor can only be damaged once before it needs to be repaired.  It's really useful, but it works once and then you need to think of something else.  Also, armor takes up precious inventory  and it isn't relevant to all situations.


"Monster armor and moves are basically the same thing, just one is more flavorable than the other? "

Yeah, that's a reasonable way to put it.  However, since armor is crossed out first, monsters with armor are likely to stay in a fight longer than a moster with highly specific moves (who will flee as soon as they are out of moves that make sense in the context".



"Finally, how do you narrate the monsters dying or running off? If you have 10 clerics with 3 moves, that would give them 2 armor for being in a group and outnumbering the goblins. The goblins hit one, reducing their armor by 1 and I'm assuming killing one of the clerics? The problem being that there are 10 clerics and only 5 (3 moves 2 armor) things to cross off. If the narration says they killed 5 clerics over the course of 5 actions, then that would cross off all 5 boxes and leave 5 clerics still alive. I can't just have them run off and escape, the players would chase them down. So how does this work in this game?"

When the clerics are out of moves that make sense in the present context, they flee.  When they are out of moves, they are dead.  This is more cinematic in its pacing; the GM might say "Their spirit is broken and you cut them down without further difficulty.  On their bodies you find..."

(+1)

I'm going to chime in with some advice. I've run some games of Goblinville, and I've run lots of other types of RPGs, too. Goblinville combat turned out to be tricky for me to grasp in certain ways, so I hope I can help.

Try to avoid setting up scenes or adventures about combat. The goblins are not setting out on missions of destruction. This game doesn't work well with that premise. The goblins set out to find things or people that will improve their life in town. Focus on that. With that in mind, I always give the players alternatives to dealing damage to the enemies, and I try to keep pushing creative ideas. The players pick up on it, and they start thinking of creative ideas after you lead by example.

First, give the goblins a way to interact with the enemies in order to improve their position. Let them push a skeleton to the ground, jump onto a table for higher ground, move into a narrow space between furniture or pillars that a larger creature has trouble moving in, or all the goblins scatter to cause confusion among the enemy. Try to think of environmental details you can incorporate into offering an idea of how the goblins can do fun things besides attack.

Second, give the goblins a way to make progress without fighting, and assume they won't be able to defeat enemies if they fight directly. Describe a door near the enemies, and tell them straight up that they can make a dash for the door. Give them ways to trap enemies, or cut them off from the goblins. Give them people to bargain with. Give them ways to sneak around. Give them ways to learn about the enemy ahead of time, to find a weakness. Offer a way out.

Third, when the goblins take opportunities to improve position or try to get out, use indirect dangers in response. Think in the reverse of the first two recommendations. If the goblins try to find a better position, have the danger be that the enemies cut off their escape. If the goblins try to escape, have the danger be that the enemies maneuver to be a greater threat, or they set up some trap that the goblins will have to contend with when they return to the room later. Again, try to find ways of incorporating the environment into the enemies building some sort of advantage.

Last, try to form a sequence of dangers. I love to use one danger to tell the players what bad thing is going to happen. If they stick around, then the next danger is something much worse. For example, if someone tries to jump onto a table to get into a better position, describe the danger as "the necromancer starts muttering a curse and pointing at you as you jump on the table, and the danger is that they'll target you with a magic spell." If they take the danger, the next danger can be suffering some effect from the spell, and probably harm, too.

Developer

"The goblins are not setting out on missions of destruction. This game doesn't work well with that premise. The goblins set out to find things or people that will improve their life in town. Focus on that. "

Well said!  Focusing on the premise of play goes a long way.