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TDD - Tower Defense Duel's itch.io pageResults
Criteria | Rank | Score* | Raw Score |
Theme Relevance | #6 | 3.333 | 3.333 |
Potential playability | #6 | 3.556 | 3.556 |
Overall | #8 | 3.296 | 3.296 |
Clarity | #10 | 3.000 | 3.000 |
Ranked from 9 ratings. Score is adjusted from raw score by the median number of ratings per game in the jam.
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Comments
I would totally play this game! I've played similar titles- notably Bloons TD Battles, but I like how you go and expand upon some features that would add more uniqueness to it. I think building your own path especially adds a lot of strategy and the opportunity to synergize your map style with your towers.
One thing I think would help your GDD is the clarity in some areas, and some spin or main focus for the game. I suggest more unique tower upgrades as a way to make it closer to a deck-building game, where the players could come up with really unique playstyles, even when using the same units. Another idea is really focusing on the map-making area of the game. That was really new and intriguing to me, and I think could be expanded upon more rather than the unit system.
I'd play sooo much of this game! Looking good.
I love what you have going on in TDD Duel! At first read it makes me think of it as a twist of Kingdom Rush, Clash Royale and Bloons TD 6 Vs. where the twist is your custom pathing to the enemy base.
Your GDD is extensive but good at hitting most of the design features of your game. It's specific in its description of user interaction and menu navigation which leaves little to the imagination there; it's a good thing it does. The one thing I had trouble piecing together when I read it was exactly how you create your custom paths to the map border edge.
Do you just build it up to the edge and units will march off/attack from there? Do some units attack earlier along the path or later rushing down the enemy base? Are there units that might ignore the pathing once spawned and require a special kind of Defender, like a Flying unit that just goes straight for the base that's weak, but needs an Anti-Air style defender to gun them down? Can players in a game of TDD disrupt or interrupt each others path? Can they use sabotage powers or abilities to make a path through an opponents path? What kinds of map design features will prevent a player from just building "the shortest path" to the base each match to make sure their troops consistently get there first?
Bombardment of wondering aside, I'd add this game to my library for the challenge and tower building aspects. I like fantasy, sci-fi and tower defense games so this is a great all-in-one package for someone like me!
I haven't played Kingdom Rush or Clash Royale much (though I did for quite testing purposes -- one of the companies I worked for used those two as inspiration for their own art style). I have sunk many hours into Bloons.
I wanted to allow for people to create their own paths to defend as it's another avenue for possible strategic thinking. Do I do long stretches to maximize distance, do I do lots of cut backs to give towers more chances to hit the same attacker, etc.
I didn't realize how lacking the detail was on how the paths were built until I saw the feedback on it, and then, when I thought about it, realized I didn't really know myself. If I'd taken a few minutes to draw a simple sketch, I'd probably have picked it up.
Flight was the power that made me decide both players would see the other's attacker-waves being built, so you'd know you might need something that was anti-air. However, I think if I were to pursue creating this game, flight and other 'rule-breaking' abilities would not be in an MVP or even a version one. I love the complexity of some TD games and would like to include stealth, lane-hopping, flight, de-powering defenders, etc., as they force you to think about defense differently.
> What kinds of map design features will prevent a player from just building "the shortest path" to the base each match to make sure their troops consistently get there first?
You're building the path to your own base, so you don't want the shortest path. If that wasn't clear, I definitely need to improve that part of the document.
You first decide what kind of pathing you want to build, to hinder the enemy attackers. Then you see the path they've built for you on their territory and they see the one you built. Then you start choosing attacker-units and defender units.
"Oh, he has lots of long straight-a-ways, I should use the attackers that speed up when going straight."
"Oh, he's got the big tanky attackers, I need to get a tower that reduces armor or ignores it or something, let's see what I have ..."
You place your towers, while trying to keep an eye on what the opponent is building, both for attackers and defenders, and adjusting accordingly. I don't think I want to allow for undoing a choice once made, or we'll have people who's entire strategy is to swap out things in the last second.
After I submitted, I was thinking some tutorial maps may have a preset path, to help explain those strategies (long paths are good for x, windy ones for y, etc.). But the build-your-own-path could be optional overall.
I can see lots of room for later evolution in a game like this. Attackers that stun Defenders (and vice versa), special abilities that players can use during the battle (though it'd be a bit less of an auto-battler then) like bombs or damage and speed boosts for units.
Thanks for the feedback!
This is spot-on for the theme--I think this sort of thing is exactly what Willem was angling for. Tower defense has always occupied a funny space of almost-but-not-quite taking off, and you make a nice compelling case about how you could expand it into a deeper experience that would encourage repeat play. I like that the player is both attacker and defender simultaneously and that you have to choose and customize both types of units. Between team play, AI bosses, quests, seasonal events, and everything, you're really describing a rich and rewarding experience here. I would play it for sure.
My main comment is just on the GDD itself; I think you hewed too closely to the template and could have just cut big sections that aren't relevant to your game, like the entire Plot section. I could also have done without the Midjourney pictures, especially since they don't fit your written description very well. But hey, if the worst criticism I have is your document formatting, you're doing well.
Hi Gwen!
Thanks for this feedback. I think you're right and my attempt to follow the template overburdened the document.
I did a few quick runs in Midjourney and couldn't get a good top down, but wanted something that gave the idea of lots of random types of "characters" for the attackers and defenders, so I tossed them in at the end. However, I can see how they might have just been confusing at that point. Also, it's not like I don't own quite a few tower defense games that I could have screenshot ...
My hope is that you're right and the basic TD element doesn't get stale because there is enough other things happening in that meta-play outside the main game (quests, collections, events, etc).
Thanks again!
Really liked this idea, and as a tower defense fan I would be so down to play this!
The initial genre definition of ‘PvP tower defense’ seemed to not be as genre-defining, but the inclusion of drawing your own paths around immovable obstacles seemed very interesting - would have loved to see that explored in more detail.
I really liked the Twitch integration idea, which (if I understood it right) would allow teams of players to fight against each other, each with a streamer or captain as its head. This sounds pretty innovative and would definitely make this genre-defining in my eyes, and potentially make the multiplayer aspect a lot more popular.
The overall design sounded interesting and fun to play, and I appreciated the detail given to describing the phases and potential strategies and edge cases (like the AI completing your path if you don’t finish in time.)
However, the document definitely felt too long to me, and very often repetitive, which made it hard to extract the relevant details without skimming too much. It might have helped to modify the original template a bit to match your game - eliminate the sections which aren’t relevant to your game, and merge the sections that tend to repeat essentially the same information. I also felt that the ‘Genre’ section was mostly empty and could have had a lot of good arguments for why this game defines an all-new genre - information that I would otherwise have had to gather from pockets elsewhere in the doc.
Some more diagrams or references in the doc would have been helpful to visualize the map and the gameplay better - but the art references and moodboards at the end of the document were a nice touch, definitely helped me understand the intended look and feel better.
I agree that PvP Tower Defense was not very much a new genre, though that wasn't clear when I submitted -- after submitting I went investigating more and found quite a few of these, but none quite like I had. I honestly didn't think to define the genre myself. I was thinking that I'd propose the idea and we'd discover if it was a new genre. Even now, I'm not sure how I'd define it.
I definitely should have had some simple sketches to better illustrate the ideas and should have cut down on the unneeded sections of the template.
Thanks for the feedback and the eagerness to play -- I want to play this too!
There are a bunch of submissions and I wanted to give feedback to everyone, so I'm going to list some strengths and weaknesses that I perceive from the GDD's in this challenge (take with a grain of salt, I recognize the challenge this jam theme + time limitations, especially during a holiday weekend).
Strengths: I really liked that you added a mood board to establish visual style. I LOVE that you included this description of integrating this game for Twitch streaming! I think it's a popular and fun option, and I think that would make this game 1000x more playable/popular.
Weaknesses: I think given the length of the doc, you could have found ways to make this more concise. There are a lot of sections that don't have a lot of information written or you describe a section as not applicable or that you don't know enough about it. It might have been better to consolidate formatting or eliminate sections that were not relevant. I also would have liked more diagrams. It's a document, but diagrams are super instructive and can eliminate large descriptive chunks, while getting the same info across. This would be especially helpful when discussing core loop or other technical aspects of the game.
There is some uncertainty in the document that ideally would have been resolved before submission, such as what the actual genre was meant to be. I think from a technical stand point, I would need some further clarification/meetings to figure out how we wanted to implement this game. I also (personally) didn't like that the document was sometimes written in first person, but this is absolutely my preference, I don't know how many people would care about that detail.
Overall, I think this would be a fun game to play!
Hi Nine,
Thanks for the feedback. The mood board was added at the last minute, partly to get some content that showed the idea of how the "characters" could vary and partly so I had another reason to play with Midjourney. However, as Gwen mentioned, they don't actually match the art scheme for the game (top-down) and so probably would have been better left out. I should have booted up one of my many tower defense games and grabbed some screens.
I was already thinking of something to add more interactivity between streamers and viewers, a more social and less passive connection, and this GDD theme forced me to sit and think about it instead of just idly wondering what I could do.
I agree that the document was too long, and I adhered to the template too much. As I've said over in the Discord, I'm frustrated I didn't take the time to add a few simple diagrams (especially since I required them from my students).
When you mentioned the actual genre, do you mean I should have tried to define it in text?
I'm not following the comment about first person. Can you elaborate?
Thanks!
Hey Maka,
I actually tried to not read any other comments until after writing my own, so I would only give my first impression, but Gwen made a very good point. I suppose I was thinking that the aesthetic was more what you were hoping to convey, since in the GDD you mentioned that it didn't fit the perspective you wanted. If that's the case, then I think it would be helpful to an artist to convey the a stylistic stand point (immediately I would think character requirements would include being rounder/squishier, more muted palettes, quirky/cartoony physical proportions, with my very limited art knowledge). You could have also shown some examples of things in the correct perspective, but my hunch would be that you'd find an artist who could translate that stylistic guide into what you wanted (ideally).
I will stand by my adoration for your Twitch integration idea. Learning that it was something that you had to sit and think about more thoroughly makes me feel like that was the whole point of this exercise, and you understood the assignment. It's both a good thing, especially in a multiplayer/party game and a good way to stretch your design muscles.
I think you did a good job under the constraints, so I wouldn't worry too much about what you didn't get finished in time. When I mentioned the genre, I did mean the listed genre in section 2.3 Genre. You have a lot of possibilities listed with question marks, which created some uncertainty for me. One reason a lot of elevator pitches reference other games is to help others immediately understand how a game is going to work, the same would have been true for this section: if you reference well known genres as the building blocks for your game, people will have an image in their head about what sorts of mechanics might be in the game. The most successful examples in this section would be "Tower Defense Battle Royale" and "TD-survival-like" which immediately gave me ideas of what to expect in the gameplay section.
About the first person thing...it's very nitpicky, but most of the doc is written in third person, "The player creates paths..." but in the audio section it switches to first person, "I don't know" or "I'd like to find." I can't disclaim it enough, it probably doesn't matter, but it caught my brain like a sock on a floorboard nail.
Ah! I see what you meant by first person now. I also use second person in quite a bit of it -- switched around too much.
For the genre, I wasn't sure what it would be called, so I was suggesting possibilities for the name. None of what I had quite made felt right, and I still haven't found something I like. For that matter, I went poking through what was listed as Tower Defense on Steam and the tag there seems to cover way more than I'd have thought.
Thanks again!